2 Questions: Burying Power Lines/Tree Trimming

[sgrizzle]

quote:Originally posted by patric

quote:Originally posted by brunoflipper

they protested when they heard there were going to be boxes in some of the front yards... they all said "NIMFY" and pitched a fit... my understanding is that it was purely the aesthetics that torqued the richie riches...

You know, since they're building this from scratch, is there any reason why they're putting the transformers in front yards in the first place?

Ill bet every one of these homes has their meter in the back yard, where most aerial wires enter.

They have to clear an area for horizotnal drilling, they don't trench. You would risk drilling the gas lines in the backyard.

I'm sure they could, but then everyone would want PSO to pay to rip out and replace the fences, sod, storage buildings, etc, etc, etc.

[patric]

The first letter arrived in mid-June, announcing plans to replace the historic neighborhood's old overhead power lines with a new underground system.

After years of storm-related outages, and recent disputes with the power company over its aggressive tree-trimming policy, most people in south Maple Ridge seemed to welcome the news.

Then a second letter arrived.

"When people found out they would have to have these ugly green boxes in their front yards, they decided maybe it wasn't a good idea after all," said John Hair, one of the Maple Ridge homeowners who circulated the second letter, complete with photos of the above-ground transformers.

Now the power company faces a vocal opposition to its plan to bury the power lines, and the outcome could have ramifications citywide.

In a project that will take at least 15 years to finish, American Electric Power-Public Service Company of Oklahoma has identified more than 700 miles of overhead lines to bury across metropolitan Tulsa.

Part of the upscale Maple Ridge neighborhood, centering around 21st Street and Cincinnati
Avenue, is among the first places scheduled to have the new underground system, and how the work is performed there will set a precedent for the rest of the city, Hair said.

"It can be done right or it can be done wrong," said Hair, who runs a consulting firm that specializes in the "horizontal directional drilling" technology that AEP-PSO will use to install the underground cables. "We want to make sure it's done right."

Launching what they informally call a "Stop the Box" campaign, Hair and his neighbors like the idea of burying the power lines -- they just want the lines buried in the easements behind their homes instead of in front of their homes.

If the lines are buried along the streets of Maple Ridge, about one out of 10 homes will have a transformer box in the front yard, creating what Hair considers an eyesore.

"This isn't just about Maple Ridge," he said. "It won't stop here. This is going to be done all over Tulsa."

To gauge how widespread the opposition is, the Maple Ridge Neighborhood Association next month will conduct a poll of about 370 affected homeowners.

Rodger Goodhead, the association's president, said if the majority vote against it, AEP-PSO has told him it will abide by that decision.

"I wouldn't hazard to guess how the vote will turn out," Goodhead said. "But it's controversial, I can promise you that. And emotions are running very high right now."

The ballot, however, will offer only two options -- either bury the lines in front of the homes, or go back to the controversial tree-trimming operation.

And for Hair, that's a false choice.

With his own expertise in burying cables, he insists that it can be done in back. And that's the only way to preserve the historic beauty and charm of midtown neighborhoods like Maple Ridge, he said.

"It's just a bad design to put any utility in somebody's front yard," he said. "We need a policy, not just for Maple Ridge but for the whole city, that utilities should be located behind a home, or at least on the side."

AEP-PSO considered putting the buried lines in back of the homes, where the current overhead lines are located. But the backyards wouldn't allow access for the large-scale equipment that AEP-PSO will use to dig the tunnels for the underground cables, company officials said.

"This is an older, affluent neighborhood where people have made a lot of changes over the years," said Steve Penrose, the AEP-PSO manager in charge of the burying project, or "undergrounding" as the industry calls it.

"People have added onto their homes. They've added garages, swimming pools, fences, landscaping."

(You can't have overhead power lines near a pool in Tulsa; they would already have to have been buried or the pool well clear of the right-of-way. ed.)

With digging scheduled to begin in September, south Maple Ridge was chosen to be among the first areas to see the work because it suffers from a disproportionate number of storm-related outages, and because residents were among the most vocal critics of AEP-PSO's aggressive tree- trimming policy.

Residents complained that beautiful, mature trees were left haggard and ugly, scarring the looks of the entire neighborhood.

"To prevent the outages, you have to separate the trees from the power lines," Penrose explained. "You can move the tree away from the line by trimming, or you can move the line away from the tree by undergrounding. There's no third option."

Measuring about 3 feet wide and 3 feet tall, the above-ground transformers have been used nationwide since the 1960s. AEP-PSO has already installed many of them, apparently without controversy, in the Ranch Acres area near 31st Street and Harvard Avenue as well as another area near LaFortune Park.

And the boxes are a common sight in south Tulsa and the suburbs -- although, often beside or behind homes, rather than in front.

The rest of the story:
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=070719_238_A1_spanc62548

I dont suppose subsurface (buried) transformers that other utilities like PG&E use have been considered?

[pmcalk]

quote:Originally posted by sgrizzle

quote:Originally posted by patric

quote:Originally posted by brunoflipper

they protested when they heard there were going to be boxes in some of the front yards... they all said "NIMFY" and pitched a fit... my understanding is that it was purely the aesthetics that torqued the richie riches...

You know, since they're building this from scratch, is there any reason why they're putting the transformers in front yards in the first place?

Ill bet every one of these homes has their meter in the back yard, where most aerial wires enter.

They have to clear an area for horizotnal drilling, they don't trench. You would risk drilling the gas lines in the backyard.

I'm sure they could, but then everyone would want PSO to pay to rip out and replace the fences, sod, storage buildings, etc, etc, etc.

I don't think gas lines would be a problem--they generally run in front around here.  Fences, sod, ....that's another story.

[pmcalk]

quote:Originally posted by patric

quote:Originally posted by brunoflipperburying a pole drop is pricey... the length of the run and then how many turns they have to make increase the price but it can be done... an associate did it for a run of about 30 feet with two turns- it was $3500...

When we buried ours (pre-AEP days), we provided the trench to PSO's specifications, then PSO laid the cable in and connected it -- at no price difference than had it been aerial.  Now AEP wont even talk to you for less than $2000 (or whatever it takes to discourage you from burying it).

quote:i'm going to hold out for pso to come through and bury them all... i'd gladly take the big green box in my front yard... interesting that the NIMBY (or i guess NIMFY) in forest hills voted against the burying because of the boxes... and now the south maple ridgies are going to do the same... ****, i know of two of those whackadoos who have permanently installed wholehouse generators... so what do they care?... i will volunteer for the big green box if theyd get rid of the poles... put a damn shrub around it for crying out loud...

Only about one home in eight get the green box, whereas with pole-to-pole (aerial) neighborhoods, just about everybody has a pole in some corner of their yard.

I think you would have to be terribly mis-informed to argue in favor keeping this...


instead of upgrading to this



Well, at least the mayor and her friends are getting their neighborhoods done:

Charlane-Ranch Acres
ForrestHills-Wildwood

Last I heard, MapleRidge won't be getting rid of any poles anytime soon, even if they agree to bury the lines, because SBC & Cox still run on the poles.  I believe SBC owns the poles--unless they decide to bury as well, MapleRidge will be stuck with both.

[sgrizzle]

I think PSO usually owns the poles but won't remove them until they are vacated.

My gas, cable, electric and phone all run through my backyard. If you had to add a line through horizontal (blind) drilling I'd want you to go through the front.

[Oil Capital]

quote:Originally posted by sgrizzle

I think PSO usually owns the poles but won't remove them until they are vacated.

My gas, cable, electric and phone all run through my backyard. If you had to add a line through horizontal (blind) drilling I'd want you to go through the front.

Correct.  PSO owns most of the poles in town. But after they remove the electric lines, the poles will be sold to AT&T (which currently leases space from PSO).

My gas, cable, electric and phone also run through the backyard.  I think that's the case for most of midtown, if not all of Tulsa.

[patric]

quote:Originally posted by Oil Capital

My gas, cable, electric and phone also run through the backyard.  I think that's the case for most of midtown, if not all of Tulsa.

Do you see Cox saying they cant bury their cable in the back because ONG has gas lines there, or AT&T saying they cant bury their lines because of cable, etc.etc.

Utility location and coordination is not rocket science, and they all have the equipment to mark their lines for other ROW users.  

Want to find all your utilities?
1-800-522-OKIE
http://www.callokie.com

[pmcalk]

I don't know where you live in midtown, but my gas line runs in front, and did at my old house as well.  South MapleRidge, all gas runs in front, too.  The person who spoke from PSO/AEP to MapleRidge donkey'n said the poles belong to SWB.  Maybe they've already sold?

[sgrizzle]

quote:Originally posted by patric

quote:Originally posted by Oil Capital

My gas, cable, electric and phone also run through the backyard.  I think that's the case for most of midtown, if not all of Tulsa.

Do you see Cox saying they cant bury their cable in the back because ONG has gas lines there, or AT&T saying they cant bury their lines because of cable, etc.etc.

Utility location and coordination is not rocket science, and they all have the equipment to mark their lines for other ROW users.  

Want to find all your utilities?
1-800-522-OKIE
http://www.callokie.com

Yeah, I remember SBC running new lines in the backyard, they tore out every backyard fence and trenched to avoid hitting lines. Maple Ridge won't allow that.