Tears of Crimson and Cream

[NellieBly]

Couldn't happen to a nicer bunch.

http://kotv.com/sports/local/story/?id=131262

[sgrizzle]

Wow

[restored2x]

This is going to make the upcoming season very interesting. The college football forums are lighting up all over the nation.

Can Stoops use this to get the players to rise up and kick butt - or will it deflate the team into mediocrity?

What say you, Sooner fans?

[Conan71]

This rant is from a luke-warm OU fan, at best.

They ought to make Bomar and Quinn clean every last square inch of Owen Field with toothbrushes.  Wait, Bomar is at Sam Houston and Quinn at Montana- same difference.

I really don't get the purpose of a retro-active penalty to the record of two seasons ago.  I think the NCAA has lost its collective minds.  

2005 will always have an asterisk in OU's media books and sportscasters will mention the "0-12 season (which was really 8-4)".  I don't see where they have to forfeit any funds from the bowl game nor any other games.  Newspaper archives show that they won those games.  It is a totally pointless penalty, since the teams which now have an additional victory can't go back and become elligible for a bowl game if they were on the bubble and didn't go due to one additional loss in their season.

Have they ever used this penalty before?

Total joke.

[TulsaSooner]

I think, officially, their record will be 0-4....they are not forfeiting, they're vacating the wins.  There is a difference.  I don't know why you would go back and do that with the 2005 record, but I'm sure it has been done before.

I don't think it will impact OU much at all to be honest.  The worst penalty is the loss of 2 schollies and that is relatively minor.  

Having said all of that, I'm sure they will appeal the decision so the final will has yet to be determined.  It's not good, but the NCAA could've been much harsher.  

USC will be facing similar or harsher penalties when/if the Reggie Bush extremely reduced rate luxury apartment findings are ever penalized.

[cannon_fodder]

The difference between OU and USC is that OU found out about it and kicked the players off the team.  USC did nothing of the sort.  Lets see if the NCAA strips a championship from USC.

That said, I actually thought the penalty was a bit harsh.  It is probably the NCAA making an example out of a top tier program.  Loss of two scholarships, limited coaches for recruiting, AND expunging 8 wins from the record is a lot.  Then I realized they get to keep the bowl $ and Conan was right, it will forever be a  *season* (with **).  I guess its fair.

I do not think it will effect the program too much.  The cloud hanging over  it was probably more devastating than anything else.  Now the pain in the donkey is they have to reduce their bowl victories by 1 and lose a series win against all their rivals.

In other news, Tulsa improves to 7-12-1 against OU all time.

[jiminy]

quote:Originally posted by TulsaSooner

I think, officially, their record will be 0-4....they are not forfeiting, they're vacating the wins.  There is a difference.  I don't know why you would go back and do that with the 2005 record, but I'm sure it has been done before.

I don't think it will impact OU much at all to be honest.  The worst penalty is the loss of 2 schollies and that is relatively minor.  

Having said all of that, I'm sure they will appeal the decision so the final will has yet to be determined.  It's not good, but the NCAA could've been much harsher.  

USC will be facing similar or harsher penalties when/if the Reggie Bush extremely reduced rate luxury apartment findings are ever penalized.

Right, they don't go down as losses, it's as if they were never played.  So, the pokes can't claim it as a victory over OU, although they probably will try because, well, that's just how they are.  It could have been worse, but it could have been better too.  They better come down as least as hard on USC.

[sgrizzle]

Keep in mind they said the penalties were harsh because they were violating rules in two sports. kind of a "two strikes and you're out" rule. I think the statement about them being 0-12 is true. It will have little effect other than a hit to pride. Also note the fact that OU is quick on track to become the school with the most major complaints in the NCAA.

[Renaissance]

quote:Originally posted by sgrizzle

Keep in mind they said the penalties were harsh because they were violating rules in two sports. kind of a "two strikes and you're out" rule. I think the statement about them being 0-12 is true. It will have little effect other than a hit to pride. Also note the fact that OU is quick on track to become the school with the most major complaints in the NCAA.

It's 0-4, not 0-12.  

Also note that any complaints over the last decade and a half have come from self-reportiing and included self-discipline.  

Also note that OU is quick on track to have the most national championships in the NCAA.

[sgrizzle]

quote:Originally posted by Floyd

quote:Originally posted by sgrizzle

Keep in mind they said the penalties were harsh because they were violating rules in two sports. kind of a "two strikes and you're out" rule. I think the statement about them being 0-12 is true. It will have little effect other than a hit to pride. Also note the fact that OU is quick on track to become the school with the most major complaints in the NCAA.

It's 0-4, not 0-12.  

Also note that any complaints over the last decade and a half have come from self-reportiing and included self-discipline.  

Also note that OU is quick on track to have the most national championships in the NCAA.

Yeah, win at all costs, OU motto.

[TulsaSooner]

quote:Originally posted by sgrizzle
Yeah, win at all costs, OU motto.

You say that like someone at the school intentionally broke the rules to gain an unfair advantage over everyone else, they didn't.  It was two boneheads intentionally circumventing the rules for their own personal gain.

[sgrizzle]

quote:Originally posted by TulsaSooner

quote:Originally posted by sgrizzle
Yeah, win at all costs, OU motto.

You say that like someone at the school intentionally broke the rules to gain an unfair advantage over everyone else, they didn't.  It was two boneheads intentionally circumventing the rules for their own personal gain.

More than two boneheads. I put plenty of blame on the owner of Big Red sales. Not to mention they said the punishment was harsher because of the recent basketball incidents.

[TulsaSooner]

quote:Originally posted by sgrizzle
More than two boneheads. I put plenty of blame on the owner of Big Red sales. Not to mention they said the punishment was harsher because of the recent basketball incidents.

Yeah, the basketball thing, the excessive phone calls, that would be considered something that a staff member did to provide a benefit to them over other schools.

But...it is what it is, maybe they'll lighten it up on appeal, who knows?  I kind of doubt it.

[cannon_fodder]

OU - 3 players subverted the rules and worked for wages they did not earn. OU found out about it, kicked the players off the team, and turned themselves over to the NCAA.

USC - player lived in a luxury home paying nothing close to the market value.  Evidence shows everyone at USC knew about this, but nothing was done.  He played all his years, graduated, THEN the NCAA began investigating.

Lets see the NCAA expunge all of USC's wins for the season. Then I will call the punishment fair.
- - -

The consensus seems to be summed up by this longhorn:
"You do understand, this may be the death knell of schools being proactive with their investigations. What possible motive to come clean and impose self-punishment does this create now?  Oklahoma self punished and cooperated and got nailed, USC hid the infraction and refuses to cooperated... lets watch them skate.  Lesson learned: do not cooperated with the NCAA."

[jackbristow]

quote:Originally posted by Floyd
Also note that OU is quick on track to have the most national championships in the NCAA.

Sorry, but I have to point out that this is wrong.  When talking about total NCAA national championships, OU has 18.  The NCAA doesn't name a football national champion, but OU has been recognized as having 7 of those.  So that is a hypothetical total of 25.

NCAA all time team national championships: UCLA 99, Stanford 92, USC 84, Oklahoma State 48, Arkansas 43, LSU 40, Texas 39.  And that's not even counting football, which would affect the total for USC, LSU and Texas for sure.  I'm not sure about the others.

Of course, you meant football championships, and yes OU's 7 is a lot, but here is what they are up against there.  Yale 15, Princeton 9, Alabama 8, Notre Dame 8, 9, 10, 11 or 12, depending on who you call legit.  Tennessee and USC also have 7.  

Quick on track for what again?

Here are my sources.

http://www.ncaa.org/champadmin/ia_football_past_champs.html

http://www.ncaa.org/library/records/championship_summaries/mens_champs_records_summaries.pdf

http://www.ncaa.org/library/records/championship_summaries/womens_champs_records_summaries.pdf