The Tulsa State Fair

[deepestblue82]

Fodder,
Thank you for agreeing with me on some of this. I also appreciate your due diligence in taking the time to see for yourself that I am not connected to the situation other than being a taxpayer. I, in turn agree with you that the ballot box will probably be the ultimate display of the error of their ways. I hope that the public having full knowledge of the situation,  will have some influence on that...even if the Fair is unaffected. All I can do is try to put the information out there in a manner where I can expose it to as many people as possible. Only time will tell...but I think this may have gotten a few people's attention.

quote:Originally posted by cannon_fodder

Right on many counts Blue82.

I think Bells sat on the cash cow so long that it was just a matter of time before they got the boot.  At the same time, I do not think the county was particularly concerned about public opinion on the subject.  And yes, there is power in the pocket book - but punishing the fair for transgressions of the County will do nothing to undue the harm that was done.  Next election will do more to show them how they screwed up.

You're personal affairs and political aspirations are a non-issues in this matter, indeed.  But the only way I was able to discover that was by research.  For all we knew you were in the Bell family, an employee, or a political candidate that lost to Randy.

And yes, everyone is entitled to their own opinion.  Welcome to Tulsa Now.

[Rowdy]

quote:Originally posted by Breadburner

They look like they should be hanging out at the blue oyster club....

[)]

[Shavethewhales]

I'm all for this. I mean, the fair is a turd now anyway, so I wouldn't go anyhow.

The reason for this is simple, for anyone still at loss: this is where the fair will feel the most hurt, and ultimately the only effective means at shaking them up so that they will listen to the tax payers whose money they spend so flippantly. I'm sorry, but after spending $210,000 to move Zingo, $200,000 to clear the site, and much more to build the actual parking lot, we have what? A parking lot, with over $150,000 less profit coming to the fair each year, not to mention a severe lack of decent attractions at the fair. All the while more trailer parks and random dumpy businesses will be stacked up on public property...

This doesn't have so much to do with Bell's, in my view (although believe me, there's and endless amount to rant on there), as it is about   idiots wasting absurd amounts of our money. Any message we can send will help.

[Conan71]

DB82

Thanks for clarifying that you don't have a personal "horse in this race".

I'm so mercurial about the fair, I only wind up going every two to three years.  I suppose I don't really see the point in retroactive punishment for a case like this, the damage is done and it won't bring Bell's back and I doubt it would provide any incentive for the county to help Bell's start over.

I believe this is another very blatant example of the haste with which our city and county government are moving at these days on major decisions which affect us all without proper due dilligence.  

Other recent examples are Fairgrounds annexation, City Hall, and the river plan.  We are being told to trust a small handful of elected officials who have forgotten they are our peers first and foremost.  They've done the due dilligence, we don't need to know all the sticky details because they are smarter and know what is best for us.

I believe Randi Miller and Clark Brewster the fair board could have advised Bell's on what more acceptible lease terms would have been and directed Bell's to change their fee structure to become more profitable to both parties.  Bell's had recent improvements and more on the drawing board which could have justified a higher flat-rate, all-inclusive gate charge which would not have broken the average family yet would have been high enough to get young thugs to take their trouble elsewhere.

[guido911]

And then there's this from the Tulsa World:

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=070720_1__TheTu04740&breadcrumb=Breaking%20News

Bells' tax bill is due. Will the mistreatment of this family ever end?

[Shavethewhales]

Why weren't their taxes paid? They were only given several hundred dollars of our money...

Btw, what's been going on with Bell's? They said that there would be some sort of announcement by now, but the only recent developments have been this and their domain expiring.

[shadows]

We have authorities that are beyond the suffrage of the citizens.  They are not responsible to anyone.  

We have managers paid by the taxpayers but the taxpayer has no control over these third party commanders.

The personal tax assessment against the no longer Bell’s stretches equal protection beyond belief.   The county can seize the personal property and sell it.  They already seized a large part of the personal property and destroyed it.   Now the horse is dead thus the county wants to see if they can beat it until it kicks-in a few more times.  These thousands of dollars income to the county was in addition to the percentage Bell paid the county.

Bell was not a traveling amusement stage show but was affixed to Tulsa’s children and the land.  The third party in this case that made the decision to remove Bell’s from the fair grounds surely had a vendetta when the time was not allowed to dismantle the family treasures but ordered then bulldozed down.  

From his lofty seat, as he watches the destruction of a home grown family dream, he is insured that he cannot be touched.   One cannot believe that because of the loss incurred, as well as the destruction, Bell will ever be able to rebuild it in another location.  An untouchable person pointed his finger and said “destroy that park”.  So it was done.  “Now pay the personal tax on it before we destroyed it”.

[waterboy]

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

DB82

Thanks for clarifying that you don't have a personal "horse in this race".

I'm so mercurial about the fair, I only wind up going every two to three years.  I suppose I don't really see the point in retroactive punishment for a case like this, the damage is done and it won't bring Bell's back and I doubt it would provide any incentive for the county to help Bell's start over.

I believe this is another very blatant example of the haste with which our city and county government are moving at these days on major decisions which affect us all without proper due dilligence.  

Other recent examples are Fairgrounds annexation, City Hall, and the river plan.  We are being told to trust a small handful of elected officials who have forgotten they are our peers first and foremost.  They've done the due dilligence, we don't need to know all the sticky details because they are smarter and know what is best for us.

I believe Randi Miller and Clark Brewster the fair board could have advised Bell's on what more acceptible lease terms would have been and directed Bell's to change their fee structure to become more profitable to both parties.  Bell's had recent improvements and more on the drawing board which could have justified a higher flat-rate, all-inclusive gate charge which would not have broken the average family yet would have been high enough to get young thugs to take their trouble elsewhere.

I absolutely agree with you Conan. (I guess I'm going to have to go re-read the manifesto or consult my treasury of Pravda back issues.)  Not sure this city/county administration is any different than previous ones but you've described the condescending arrogance that's taken Tulsa off the map.

[guido911]

Wow Shadows. Deep...

I guess Bell's should not have to pay its taxes because gosh darnit they were just not treated right.

[rwarn17588]

savethewhales wrote:

Btw, what's been going on with Bell's? They said that there would be some sort of announcement by now, but the only recent developments have been this and their domain expiring.

<end clip>

That's because there isn't an announcement coming. The outrage has dwindled over recent months when they realized that Robby Bell was a lousy amusement park manager.

Bell's is not going to re-emerge anywhere else as long as Robby Bell runs it. If he divests or sells his equipment, then maybe a suburb would make an offer.

[Conan71]

"interest and fees totaling $20,618.48."  [B)]

Tax on what property? They didn't own the land, must be on the improvements.

[Steve]

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

Tax on what property? They didn't own the land, must be on the improvements.

Yea, I think it was some sort of personal property or inventory tax on the rides/equipment/improvements.

I live 1/2 mile southeast of the fairgrounds, within walking distance, and I haven't been to the Tulsa State Fair or Bell's Park in over 10 years.  (Perhaps if I had children or grandchildren, my story would be different.)  I will not "boycott" the Tulsa Fair, I just won't go because I have no interest in attending.

[Conan71]

Eh, I have to go every couple or three years just to see neandertals munching on turkey legs whilst wandering aimlessly around, make fun of the carnies, and get that warm feeling of being surrounded by young thug gangstas.

What wholesome entertainment.

[Steve]

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

Eh, I have to go every couple or three years just to see neandertals munching on turkey legs whilst wandering aimlessly around, make fun of the carnies, and get that warm feeling of being surrounded by young thug gangstas.

What wholesome entertainment.

True.  You do see a lot of "characters" at the fair that you don't see any other time of year.  People watching would be the only element that would entice me to attend the Tulsa Fair; so far I have been able to fight the temptation for at least 10 years.

And what is it with those awful turkey legs?!?!?  I don't much care for turkey anyway, but those gristly, tendony, nasty turkey legs?  I would rather just go hungry than be seen chawing on one of those!