Tulsa Police Using Cameras For Red Light Runners

[dbacks fan]

Say what you want about red light cameras, but if they can reduce the number of accidents like this.....



http://www.azcentral.com/community/scottsdale/articles/0719abrk-collision0719-ON.html

[Conan71]

I know Scottsdale is using speed cameras, I would have assumed that they were also using intersection cameras as well.

It is a deterrent to run red lights which can cause tragedies like you posted, yet there are still people who are inattentive or just want to shave a minute off their arrival time at their destination who will continue to take the risk.

I sure hate to sound insensitive, but eight people in a Cadillac?

"The five killed were identified as Noelia Robolledo-Sanchez, 36; her husband, Antonio Pedraza-Olivares, 30; their son, Antonio Pedraza-Robolledo, 4; and their nieces, Jennifer Ramirez-Pedraza, 7, and Myra Ramirez-Pedraza, 11."

Wonder if the young 'uns were strapped in?  No doubt there wouldn't have been such mass injury if the fellow hadn't run the red light, but over-crowding a vehicle built for six didn't help either.

[patric]

Communities with the most experience with these seem to have the most to say:


D.C. Red-Light Cameras Fail to Reduce Accidents

The District's red-light cameras have generated more than 500,000 violations and $32 million in fines over the past six years. City officials credit them with making busy roads safer.

But a Washington Post analysis of crash statistics shows that the number of accidents has gone up at intersections with the cameras. The increase is the same or worse than at traffic signals without the devices.

Three outside traffic specialists independently reviewed the data and said they were surprised by the results. Their conclusion: The cameras do not appear to be making any difference in preventing injuries or collisions.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/03/AR2005100301844.html



2007 Virginia DOT Report Shows Red Light Cameras Increase Accidents

A new Virginia Department of Transportation study shows accidents increased by nearly a third where red light cameras were used.

VTRC report coverThe Virginia Transportation Research Council today released a report expanding upon earlier research into the safety effects of red light cameras in Virginia. The new study, funded by the Virginia Department of Transportation and the Federal Highway Administration, provided a city-by-city assessment that showed significant increases in the number of injuries and accidents at intersections employing photo enforcement.

The change in the frequency of injury accidents varied widely among jurisdictions -- down 5 percent in one but up between 6 and 89 percent in all others. Even within a jurisdiction some intersections fared better than others. In Fairfax County, for example, the total number of crashes increased at every intersection with a camera, except for one -- Route 50 and Fair Ridge. VDOT increased the duration of the yellow light from 4 seconds to 5.5 seconds on August 12, 1998. Research by the Texas Transportation Institute confirmed that longer yellows yield significant accident reductions. Overall, the data in the VTRC report painted a grim picture consistent with prior, independent investigations.
http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/18/1844.asp



Are Cameras at Traffic Signals the Answer to Dangerous Intersections, or Part of the Problem?

As red-light traffic cameras spring up at intersections across the country, critics are raising questions about whether the devices actually deter red-light running, or are just a way for local authorities to make a quick buck.

Proponents say the cameras make roads safer by deterring red-light runners from breaking the rules, but detractors say dangerous intersections are the result of engineering deficiencies and the cameras are just a way to increase revenue on the backs of unsuspecting drivers.

"Red-light cameras just reward cities for bad engineering," said Eric Skrum, spokesman for the National Motorists Association, a motorist advocacy group that has been arguing against the use of red-light cameras nationwide.

The group contends that the best remedies for dangerous intersections are engineering improvements like longer yellow lights and shielding signals to prevent glare and make the lights more visible as the sun sets.

According to the group's Web site, the organization believes that "with properly posted speed limits and properly installed traffic-control devices, there is no need for camera-based traffic law enforcement devices."
http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=292547&page=1

[Ibanez]

Big Brother's march continues on...

[Wilbur]

quote:Originally posted by sauerkraut

Funny they can't also sit and look for suspected illegal aliens driving. They cause many more accidents than red lite runners and are by far the greatest threat to public safety on the roads.[B)]

Would certainly be interested to see stats to support that claim.

And just how does one tell if someone is an illegal alien by appearance?

[Wilbur]

quote:Originally posted by sauerkraut

quote:Originally posted by patric

Other than AAA condemning Red-Light cameras for widespread abuse, we have a state law that essentially says a vehicle cant be charged with a crime -- you have to cite a driver.

Yes, but they get around that. There's also places that have automatic red-lite cameras that take the picture and mail it in. No cop is involved. Yet when ya go to court you have a right to face your accuser and a right to cross-examin your accuser, but they have ways around that. It does not apply here, the picture is all the proof that's needed for a conviction. They have your face and your license plate & your nailed. It's been thru the courts and most have up held the automatic cameras as being legal, also the camera company gets a cut of the ticket money too. Some people have said the camers are set too fast and will nail ya when the light is really yellow. Arizona and parts of Iowa use the automatic red lite cameras, and many east coast states use them.[xx(]

Camera enforcement is not allowed in Oklahoma.  Yet.

[Conan71]

quote:Originally posted by Wilbur

quote:Originally posted by sauerkraut

Funny they can't also sit and look for suspected illegal aliens driving. They cause many more accidents than red lite runners and are by far the greatest threat to public safety on the roads.[B)]

Would certainly be interested to see stats to support that claim.

And just how does one tell if someone is an illegal alien by appearance?

Well, according to Reverand Orta, you guys were going to brutalize ALL Hispanic looking people in your over-zealous quest to deport them all.

/sarc

[Conan71]

Here's an RFQ for traffic signal cameras and recorders:

COT Purchasing

Here's one for surveilance trailers:

COT Purchasing

Sounds like the City is getting ready to go higher tech afterall.

[Wilbur]

The City uses intersection cameras to control the traffic signal computer, not for traffic violations.

With the old system, a magnetic loop was buried in the street in each lane to detect cars at the intersection, which told the signal's computer that, eventually, this lane needs a green light.  The problem was, when that loop broke, you tore up the street to fix.

The new cameras are mounted on the signal pole and 'see' a car waiting at the traffic signal and tells the computer it will need a green light.  When the camera breaks, you climb the pole and put on a new camera and send the old one in for repair.  No tearing up the street.

[Ed W]

quote:Originally posted by Wilbur

The City uses intersection cameras to control the traffic signal computer, not for traffic violations.

I think public works calls them video detectors rather than cameras because the don't actually provide an image.  They're programmable.  You can set the logic to 'look' at two areas.  When both change, there's probably a car waiting at the intersection.  But when only one changes, it may be a shadow from nearby trees.  That is supposed to reduce false triggering.  One of the intersections along Riverside had problems with shadows causing false trips.

[Wilbur]

quote:Originally posted by Ed W

quote:Originally posted by Wilbur

The City uses intersection cameras to control the traffic signal computer, not for traffic violations.

I think public works calls them video detectors rather than cameras because the don't actually provide an image.  They're programmable.  You can set the logic to 'look' at two areas.  When both change, there's probably a car waiting at the intersection.  But when only one changes, it may be a shadow from nearby trees.  That is supposed to reduce false triggering.  One of the intersections along Riverside had problems with shadows causing false trips.

I think you're close.  It has something to do with the number of pixels that change in a small area of what the camera sees.

[tulsascoot]

quote:Originally posted by sauerkraut

Funny they can't also sit and look for suspected illegal aliens driving. They cause many more accidents than red lite runners and are by far the greatest threat to public safety on the roads.[B)]

That's a red herring, and not provable. I think we have a lot more problems with home grown white trash and gang banger wannabes than illegal immigrants. You should probably find some new FOX news talking points.

I am sick of the white trash morons who terrorize our streets. If these cameras help, then good. Maybe I can get all the white idiot people to slow down for the illegal Mexicans walking through my neighborhood.

[sauerkraut]

quote:Originally posted by Wilbur

quote:Originally posted by sauerkraut

Funny they can't also sit and look for suspected illegal aliens driving. They cause many more accidents than red lite runners and are by far the greatest threat to public safety on the roads.[B)]

Would certainly be interested to see stats to support that claim.

And just how does one tell if someone is an illegal alien by appearance?

After an accident it's easy to find out if they are illegal, they offten flee, and the victim is stuck with the damage and medical bills. I would think profiling would help. The cops must know the signs of an illegal alien driving and what to look for and what raises a red flag, but for PC reasons it can't be mentioned. Everyone has a profile ... it all depands on what you want to focus on, criminals, illegals, drug runners, average Joes..

[sauerkraut]

quote:Originally posted by tulsascoot

quote:Originally posted by sauerkraut

Funny they can't also sit and look for suspected illegal aliens driving. They cause many more accidents than red lite runners and are by far the greatest threat to public safety on the roads.[B)]

That's a red herring, and not provable. I think we have a lot more problems with home grown white trash and gang banger wannabes than illegal immigrants. You should probably find some new FOX news talking points.

I am sick of the white trash morons who terrorize our streets. If these cameras help, then good. Maybe I can get all the white idiot people to slow down for the illegal Mexicans walking through my neighborhood.

Huh are you for real? you think it's a good idea to let illegals drive with no understanding of the language, road signs, or traffic laws & No drivers license, no insurance and when they cause a major accident it's tuff rocks to who-ever they hit. The victim is stuck with the bills. The illegal alien flees and a week latter is back driving. The only good idea would be to deport them as law enforcement comes across them. A cop stops a car with a busted tail light finds out the driver is illegal- Goodbye! He's gone! That's why car insurance is so high in Texas and California. Someone has to pay for all the accidents unlicensed & uninsured illegals do.

[Aa5drvr]

>Not to take pictures of the license plate, but >to take the picture of the car driving through >the red light - then staple the picture to the >ticket issued by the officer.....

If I were the one caught in this little racket, I would be more than happy to take a photo of a One Hundred Dollar Bill (or whatever the fine is, staple THAT to the ticket and mail it back in.  
After all if I going to pay fines, I want the benefit of "personal contact!"