Tulsa's exciting rail possibilities

[OurTulsa]

http://www.ktul.com/news/stories/0707/440753.html

Very exciting!!

While I think there is merit in looking at this investment as an alternative to rush hour traffic I am thinking more in terms of re-shaping metropolitan growth.  Imagine the investment opportunities around rail stops.  We could seriously rebuild communities around some of these lines.

One of these lines parallels the west bank of the river and runs directly through Jenks.  Can we say synergy with river development.  It runs directly through the area owned by the City at 23rd/Jackson.  We could potentially build an entire TOD around that rail station.  Quick, someone call the Warrens back up and get the Channels back out.  Just shift that energy a little west and I think we really have something special in the making.

The line going to Owasso can be much more than their commuter line.  It can serve north Tulsa as well as provide some serious accessibility to the region by linking our airport.  I can't tell you how convenient it is to have a reliable transit option from an airport.  Flying into St. Louis, Chicago, Boston, Newark, Portland, is so much easier for me because I can literally hop right onto the rail from the airport and get to many destinations.  Cabs are fine but expensive.  

I really think this is an exciting prospect for our city and investment in our future.  Forget the fact that our traffic is paltry compared to major metropolitan areas think of this as a redirect in the way we choose to shape our city.  

Another benefit, It has the potential to redirect very dense development away from our 'historic' midtown neighborhoods, although I still think that relatively dense infill is necessary and can be accomplished appropriately around some of our inner-city hoods like Brookside and Cherry St.

River development: important.  Transit options for the region: even more important!

Message to KTUL: 40mil for a light rail line is peanuts, peanuts dudes.  Especially when you consider the return on quality of life and investment potential.

[jackbristow]

If it is truly as easy as they make it sound I would jump all over supporting this.  I would take the train to work every day to get downtown from Jenks...recently named #43 best place to live in America by Money Magazine I might add...

This plus river development plus downtown revitalization paints an awesome future for this area...if only they would do something about the damn roads!!!

[Conan71]

Who would have known what was brewing behind closed doors at INCOG when I made this comment on the other rail thread:

"Maybe the horrible condition of our roads and our government's seeming indifference to the problem is a secret conspiracy to get us all on the rails." []

Wow, Tulsa may well become the first city in America with 20% sales tax with all these ambitious projects.

[mac]

When I last visited Portland, Ore. I was amazed at the light rail system they have. You can travel from the baggage claim area of the airport to within two blocks of your downtown hotel for less than $2. Plus any transportation, light rail, bus or cable car, within a certain distance from downtown was free. How revolutionary!!! Everywhere we went the businesses were bustling AND they were rehabilitating old buildings!

Every city I have visited where there is mass transit there are little pockets of businesses thriving around the transit stops.

What a concept.

[sgrizzle]

I thought this was all mentioned before in incog public documents.

[waterboy]

Up and running within 5 years!? Not likely. Riverparks owns the line from Jenks to Tulsa along the base of Turkey Mtn. It took them years to get the track transferred to them. And do they want to do something novel like run a short entertainment line ala Eureka Springs or the Christmas Train? No, they intend to pull it up for...bike and running paths.

Five years won't even be enough time to find the owners and negotiate transfer much less repair the track and begin service.

[pfox]

quote:Originally posted by waterboy

Up and running within 5 years!? Not likely. Riverparks owns the line from Jenks to Tulsa along the base of Turkey Mtn. It took them years to get the track transferred to them. And do they want to do something novel like run a short entertainment line ala Eureka Springs or the Christmas Train? No, they intend to pull it up for...bike and running paths.

Five years won't even be enough time to find the owners and negotiate transfer much less repair the track and begin service.

TV reporters *shrugs*. 5 years under IDEAL conditions is what we told her.  That certainly was a speculative statement, as she was pressing for a timeframe.  That meant if it was totally locally funded, and construction began next year.  That is not realistic, which we also mentioned, but she mysteriously left that part out.  More likely, would be to have the first line completed in that timeframe, still not extremely likely, unless something should change.

Point of clarification Waterboy. Riverparks does not own the track on the West Bank.  UP owns the tracks and has a use agreement with TSU.  UP also owns the BA to DT Tulsa line.  Additionally, the multi-use trail (west bank extention to Turkey Mountain) is already being constructed, but not ON the track bed, but next to it, within the RR ROW.

[waterboy]

quote:Originally posted by pfox

quote:Originally posted by waterboy

Up and running within 5 years!? Not likely. Riverparks owns the line from Jenks to Tulsa along the base of Turkey Mtn. It took them years to get the track transferred to them. And do they want to do something novel like run a short entertainment line ala Eureka Springs or the Christmas Train? No, they intend to pull it up for...bike and running paths.

Five years won't even be enough time to find the owners and negotiate transfer much less repair the track and begin service.

Point of clarification Waterboy. Riverparks does not own the track on the West Bank.  UP owns the tracks and has a use agreement with TSU.  UP also owns the BA to DT Tulsa line.  Additionally, the multi-use trail (west bank extention to Turkey Mountain) is already being constructed, but not ON the track bed, but next to it, within the RR ROW.

Thanks, my info was several years old from back when Bubenik was trying to work out something with UP. He said they wanted to put in a trail.

[Chris]

Our roads are facing large amounts of repair just to get them to average status. Maybe if we invest in light rail some of the wear on the roads will be relieved. We could stop spending all our money on widening and repaving roads and give people a choice! At least let us vote on it!

[sgrizzle]

I just hope they pit a mid/south tulsa transfer station. The WalMart at 41st&Memorial is close to I-44/The BA and is directly adjacent to the train tracks. Plus it has plenty of parking for park & ride options.

[PonderInc]

Does INCOG have any information on its website about this rail plan?  I looked and couldn't find anything.  The Transportation Improvement Plan only mentions "rail" when talking about signage and street crossings, etc.

A recent article mentioned that it would take a billion dollars to fix the thousands of miles of city streets already under Tulsa's control.  And we spend hundreds of millions of dollars widening streets to reach the burbs.  Commuter rail makes much more sense as a long-term investment.  Reducing auto traffic on city streets will reduce maintenance costs and the need to widen streets.  It would encourage more walkable, dense, mixed use development near rail lines.  And it would help Tulsa stay out of ozone trouble.  It would allow the average family to own fewer cars/household.  Just think: owning one fewer car would save thousands of dollars a year (car payments, gas, insurance, tires, maintenance, etc).

[swake]

quote:Originally posted by Chris

Our roads are facing large amounts of repair just to get them to average status. Maybe if we invest in light rail some of the wear on the roads will be relieved. We could stop spending all our money on widening and repaving roads and give people a choice! At least let us vote on it!

A great deal of the damage to our roads is done by large trucks, and we have very low diesel taxes. We have tried to encourage trucking in Oklahoma for some unknown reason.

We need to flip that. How about funding rail projects and have the local matching dollars come from diesel fuel taxes. That would discourage trucks without a local destination from entering Oklahoma. Lessen the ongoing damage from large trucks and provide an alternative to car traffic.

[Conan71]

quote:Originally posted by swake

quote:Originally posted by Chris

Our roads are facing large amounts of repair just to get them to average status. Maybe if we invest in light rail some of the wear on the roads will be relieved. We could stop spending all our money on widening and repaving roads and give people a choice! At least let us vote on it!

A great deal of the damage to our roads is done by large trucks, and we have very low diesel taxes. We have tried to encourage trucking in Oklahoma for some unknown reason.

We need to flip that. How about funding rail projects and have the local matching dollars come from diesel fuel taxes. That would discourage trucks without a local destination from entering Oklahoma. Lessen the ongoing damage from large trucks and provide an alternative to car traffic.

Well-intentioned comment and good idea about the fuel taxes.  However, most of the damage from heavy vehicles falls under the jurisdiction of ODOT through the Tulsa area.  Still doesn't address deterioration of arterial streets.

ODOT seems to at least be a little bit ahead of the city on keeping up roads and replacing/upgrading bridges.

[Conan71]

quote:Originally posted by PonderInc

Does INCOG have any information on its website about this rail plan?  I looked and couldn't find anything.  The Transportation Improvement Plan only mentions "rail" when talking about signage and street crossings, etc.

A recent article mentioned that it would take a billion dollars to fix the thousands of miles of city streets already under Tulsa's control.  And we spend hundreds of millions of dollars widening streets to reach the burbs.  Commuter rail makes much more sense as a long-term investment.  Reducing auto traffic on city streets will reduce maintenance costs and the need to widen streets.  It would encourage more walkable, dense, mixed use development near rail lines.  And it would help Tulsa stay out of ozone trouble.  It would allow the average family to own fewer cars/household.  Just think: owning one fewer car would save thousands of dollars a year (car payments, gas, insurance, tires, maintenance, etc).

This, like the finite details of the river plan, City Hall, and Fairgrounds annexation is over the heads of us plebes.  We don't need to know the details, they will eventually cram it down our throats like the TTEP and make us dislike it.

[Renaissance]

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

quote:Originally posted by PonderInc

Does INCOG have any information on its website about this rail plan?  I looked and couldn't find anything.  The Transportation Improvement Plan only mentions "rail" when talking about signage and street crossings, etc.

A recent article mentioned that it would take a billion dollars to fix the thousands of miles of city streets already under Tulsa's control.  And we spend hundreds of millions of dollars widening streets to reach the burbs.  Commuter rail makes much more sense as a long-term investment.  Reducing auto traffic on city streets will reduce maintenance costs and the need to widen streets.  It would encourage more walkable, dense, mixed use development near rail lines.  And it would help Tulsa stay out of ozone trouble.  It would allow the average family to own fewer cars/household.  Just think: owning one fewer car would save thousands of dollars a year (car payments, gas, insurance, tires, maintenance, etc).

This, like the finite details of the river plan, City Hall, and Fairgrounds annexation is over the heads of us plebes.  We don't need to know the details, they will eventually cram it down our throats like the TTEP and make us dislike it.

Ahem . . . or else "they" post the plan on the Tulsa Transit website for public access.

http://www.tulsatransit.org/news-info/commuter-rail-study/

Read.  Think.  THEN post.