Tulsa Has Never Faced Truth About 1921 Race Riot

[iplaw]

quote:For those who lived through this event though

That's exactly what I'm trying to get across to you.  Those people lived through this tragendy, on both sides, are now long gone...  A day late and a dollar short to be giving reparations to people in North Tulsa thinking this will somehow solve something.  

Education about the riots is one thing, but blaming current maladies in North Tulsa on a lack of understanding about those riots (even when it's been shown that there is an abundance of information on the topic) seems to be misguided.

You may be right that people are uninformed about the riots, but it's not from a lack of available information.  I'm sure if you talked with the parties involved in the latest murder de joure in North Tulsa, they probably don't know that there were even race riots in Tulsa, but I hardly doubt it has any effect on their activities.  Do you think paying them money will alleviate the crime?

quote:When the most respected black historian in entire United States says we have not done enough, we should listen.

Wow.  How does one get this title?

[rwarn17588]

It's not accurate to claim that somehow Tulsa and Oklahoma are ignoring the race riot.

The state did an exhaustive investigative report a few years ago:

http://www.ok-history.mus.ok.us/trrc/freport.htm

I was in Illinois when all of this was being discussed. Believe me, the stuff about the Tulsa Race Riot was nationwide.

Also, it's not like people are sweeping it under the rug now. Rep. John Sullivan vigorously advocated a memorial just a few months ago.

Perhaps many Tulsans tried to sweep it under the rug in previous decades -- mostly because of shame, I suspect. I don't support that, but I can certainly understand it. It was a shameful episode in American history, not just Tulsa's. There were race riots and lynchings all over the country during the late teens up until about World War II, when those sorts of awful things started to decline drastically, thank God.

But to say Tulsa is ignoring the race riots in recent years and now is wrong. We are discussing it, correct? That's hardly what I would call "ignoring" it.

[guido911]

RW:  It is not good enough to remember it or discuss it. We (as persons who not even born yet) have to mourn it. We (as persons who were not even born yet) have to live its memory every day. We (as persons who were not even born yet) have to apologize for it. We (as persons who were not even born yet) have to give free money to people (who were not even born yet). We have to beg forgiveness for it happening. If we do not, according to Jack, we are "heartless and selfish."

Swake: I have no problem with a memorial, but that is not what you were saying earlier in this thread and you know it. You are backpedaling because you have been exposed as a reparations advocate.

[RecycleMichael]

Have you guys been over to the Greenwood Center and seen the room filled with framed pictures and articles about the 1921 Race Riot?

We went there as part of our Leadership Tulsa training. It was very moving. I have had other events in that room and have read a book by Hannibal Johnson about the event as well.

I have always known about the riot. My mother discussed it with us as children back when she was a reporter at the Oklahoma Eagle. I am kind of amazed when I meet people who have lived here a long time and know nothing about it.

[ttownclown]

Does anyone know what started the riot? Were there any events that led up to or incited it?  I've lived in Tulsa all my life and know very little about the particulars of the devastating event, other than there was a riot.

[Hometown]

Jack Bristow, Thank you for bringing this issue to the front burner.  

I would say that repairing the damage caused by the Riot is No. 1 on Tulsa's Karmic "To Do" list.

About two years ago I participated in a thread here at TulsaNow about the riot that was a great learning experience for me.

One of the things that I learned was that there were Whites in Tulsa who tried to shelter and protect Blacks during the riot.

Since returning to Tulsa I have also seen a memorial to the victims in the Greenwood area.  The chief donor to the memorial was a local oil man and his wife -- Helmerich.

We have a horrible Republican congressman here named Sullivan who has, as far as I can tell, done one thing right in his life.  I'm short on details but he is attempting or has obtained some federal money for a memorial.

Unfortunately, even though this forum has recently seemed to trend to the far right, there are people in Tulsa who agree with you, but not enough to hit a critical mass.

I hope you will continue to post and participate.  You bringing this issue to our attention again is a small step in the right direction.

[swake]

quote:Originally posted by iplaw
Wow.  How does one get this title?

This is how:

John Hope Franklin is the James B. Duke Professor Emeritus of History, and for seven years was Professor of Legal History in the Law School at Duke University. He is a native of Oklahoma and a graduate of Fisk University. He received the A.M. and Ph.D. degrees in history from Harvard University. He has taught at a number of institutions, including Fisk University, St. Augustine's College, North Carolina Central University, and Howard University. In 1956 he went to Brooklyn College as Chairman of the Department of History; and in 1964, he joined the faculty of the University of Chicago, serving as Chairman of the Department of History from 1967 to 1970. At Chicago, he was the John Matthews Manly Distinguished Service Professor from 1969 to 1982, when he became Professor Emeritus.

Professor Franklin's numerous publications include The Emancipation Proclamation, The Militant South, The Free Negro in North Carolina, Reconstruction After the Civil War, and A Southern Odyssey: Travelers in the Ante-bellum North. Perhaps his best known book is From Slavery to Freedom: A History of African-Americans, now in its seventh edition. His Jefferson Lecture in the Humanities for 1976 was published in 1985 and received the Clarence L. Holte Literary Prize for that year. In 1990, a collection of essays covering a teaching and writing career of fifty years, was published under the title, Race and History: Selected Essays, 1938-1988. In 1993, he published The Color Line: Legacy for the Twenty-first Century. Professor Franklin's most recent book, My Life and an Era: The Autobiography of Buck Colbert Franklin, is an autobiography of his father that he edited with his son, John Whittington Franklin. His current research deals with "Dissidents on the Plantation: Runaway Slaves."

Professor Franklin has been active in numerous professional and education organizations. For many years he has served on the editorial board of the Journal of Negro History. He has also served as President of the following organizations: The American Studies Association (1967), the Southern Historical Association (1970), the United Chapters of Phi Beta Kappa (1973-76), the Organization of American Historians (1975), and the American Historical Association (1979). He has been a member of the Board of Trustees of Fisk University, the Chicago Public Library, and the Chicago Symphony Orchestra Association.

Professor Franklin has served on many national commissions and delegations, including the National Council on the Humanities, from which he resigned in 1979, when the President appointed him to the Advisory Commission on Public Diplomacy. He has also served on the President's Advisory Commission on Ambassadorial Appointments. In September and October of 1980, he was a United States delegate to the 21st General Conference of UNESCO. Among many other foreign assignments, Dr. Franklin has served as Pitt Professor of American History and Institutions at Cambridge University, Consultant on American Education in the Soviet Union, Fulbright Professor in Australia, and Lecturer in American History in the People's Republic of China. Currently, Professor Franklin serves as chairman of the advisory board for One America: The President's Initiative on Race.

Professor Franklin has been the recipient of many honors. In 1978, Who's Who in America selected Dr. Franklin as one of eight Americans who has made significant contributions to society. In the same year, he was elected to the Oklahoma Hall of Fame. He also received the Jefferson Medal for 1984, awarded by the Council for the Advancement and Support of Education. In 1989, he was the first recipient of the Cleanth Brooks Medal of the Fellowship of Southern Writers, and in 1990 received the Encyclopedia Britannica Gold Medal for the Dissemination of Knowledge. In 1993, Dr. Franklin received the Charles Frankel Prize for contributions to the humanities, and in 1994, the Cosmos Club Award and the Trumpet Award from Turner Broadcasting Corporation. In 1995, he received the first W.E.B. DuBois Award from the Fisk University Alumni Association, the Organization of American Historians' Award for Outstanding Achievement, the Alpha Phi Alpha Award of Merit, the NAACP's Spingarn Medal, and the Presidential Medal of Freedom. In 1996, Professor Franklin was elected to the Oklahoma Historians Hall of Frame and in 1997 he received the Peggy V. Helmerich Distinguished Author Award. In addition to his many awards, Dr. Franklin has received honorary degrees from more than one hundred colleges and universities.

[iplaw]

quote:Originally posted by Hometown

Jack Bristow, Thank you for bringing this issue to the front burner.  

I would say that repairing the damage caused by the Riot is No. 1 on Tulsa's Karmic "To Do" list.

Why? No more love for the Native Americans?  Hatemonger...you think a few casinos and smoke shops can repair the damage inflicted on my people by Oklahomans.  Dream on; I wants my money.

quote:
We have a horrible Republican congressman here named Sullivan who has, as far as I can tell, done one thing right in his life.  I'm short on details but he is attempting or has obtained some federal money for a memorial.

Of course.  You're only marginally clear on the details when you want to bash him, why should we expect anything different.

[iplaw]

quote:Originally posted by swake
.... of Southern Writers, and in 1990 received the Encyclopedia Britannica Gold Medal for the Dissemination of Knowledge. In 1993, Dr. Franklin received the Charles Frankel Prize for contributions to the humanities, and in 1994, the Cosmos Club Award and the Trumpet Award from Turner Broadcasting Corporation. In 1995, he received the first W.E.B. DuBois Award from the Fisk University Alumni Association, the Organization of American Historians' Award for Outstanding Achievement, the Alpha Phi Alpha Award of Merit, the NAACP's Spingarn Medal, and the Presidential Medal of Freedom. In 1996, Professor Franklin was elected to the Oklahoma Historians Hall of Frame and in 1997 he received the Peggy V. Helmerich Distinguished Author Award. In addition to his many awards, Dr. Franklin has received honorary degrees from more than one hundred colleges and universities.

My comment was made in jest...I thought that was clear enough, please depress your literal button.  I respect him for what he has accomplished, but his request for reparations holds no merit.  No request for reparations does, for any oppressed group.  Reparations solve nothing.

[jackbristow]

quote:Originally posted by guido911

RW:  We (as persons who were not even born yet) have to give free money to people (who were not even born yet). We have to beg forgiveness for it happening. If we do not, according to Jack, we are "heartless and selfish."

Woah Woah Woah everybody...geez...talk about taking something and misconstruing what I said.  What I said was:

"For those who lived through this event though, their story deserves to be told and they deserve more than to be forgotten and ignored."

Where do you get that I advocate paying anyone ANYTHING...especially anyone who was not alive then.  Reading comprehension people. Reading comprehension.  Try to understand what someone is saying rather than jump to ridiculous conclusions.

Read some of the posts that were on here arguing with Swake.  They ARE cold and heartless.  All I wanted to do was open discussion about what COULD be done or what has been done that I am unaware of.  I don't claim to have any answers.  A memorial would be a good idea in my opinion though.  

Reparations to the general population of North Tulsa is stupid and I never meant for anyone to think that and that topic is wasting most of this thread.  

Reparations to any SURVIVORS who lived through it might be warranted.  Some might still be around you know...A 90 year old would have been 10 at that time and may have seen his parents lynched.  Who knows?  A memorial with names of the victims would seem good to me.

[guido911]

quote:Originally posted by jackbristow

quote:Originally posted by guido911

RW:  We (as persons who were not even born yet) have to give free money to people (who were not even born yet). We have to beg forgiveness for it happening. If we do not, according to Jack, we are "heartless and selfish."

Woah Woah Woah everybody...geez...talk about taking something and misconstruing what I said.  What I said was:

"For those who lived through this event though, their story deserves to be told and they deserve more than to be forgotten and ignored."

Where do you get that I advocate paying anyone ANYTHING...especially anyone who was not alive then.  Reading comprehension people. Reading comprehension.  Try to understand what someone is saying rather than jump to ridiculous conclusions.

Read some of the posts that were on here arguing with Swake.  They ARE cold and heartless.  All I wanted to do was open discussion about what COULD be done or what has been done that I am unaware of.  I don't claim to have any answers.  A memorial would be a good idea in my opinion though.  

Reparations to the general population of North Tulsa is stupid and I never meant for anyone to think that and that topic is wasting most of this thread.  

Reparations to any SURVIVORS who lived through it might be warranted.  Some might still be around you know...A 90 year old would have been 10 at that time and may have seen his parents lynched.  Who knows?  A memorial with names of the victims would seem good to me.

Your selective parsing out what you previously posted is not going unnoticed. This is what you said:

Wow. Nevermind. You guys are obviously very cynical and small minded and would prefer for this tragedy to just remain swept under the rug and ignored. I get it.

For those who lived through this event though, their story deserves to be told and they deserve more than to be forgotten and ignored.

You people are cold, cynical, heartless and selfish. That is the impression you have given.

Maybe you should work on your "reading comprehension" before lecturing us on what we missed.

[waterboy]

I think his characterization of the responses was correct.  Even though a few more people responded, the ratio remains the same. About 25% of Tulsans don't have a clue as to why a memorial is necessary or even what really happened just 85 years ago. The children and grand children of both sides of the riot are still living. If you were on the winning side you are still benefitting. The losers are not.

Guido, are you white and carrying an AK47? Maybe you could help with that bonfire in Bartlett square that cause seekers will be jumping into. See, others can be insensitive too.

[Conan71]

Reparations, to an extent, have been meted out.  Not necessarily in response to the race riots but in re-developing the Greenwood District back in the late '80's.  TEDC- Tulsa Economic Development Corp, as I recall, worked closely with the re-development of the area and helped incubate small businesses in the district.  I worked with the merchants association back in the early '90's a little bit on some advertising and PR and learned a little about the interrelationship between TEDC and the GBD.  I don't recall all the details now, but it was a good program, similar to SBA.

Other projects have been done and just wind up not being economically viable or wind up in disrepair, are vandalized, or just flat stolen from- look at the nice new Albertson's at Pine & Peoria which will be shuttered because it's ostensibly not economically viable.  Apparently the local community doesn't appreciate the addition to the area, otherwise either Reasor's or Price Cutter (or whatever chain it is) would have purchased it in their package.

I get a little lot cynical when we dig back into the past and need to create memorials for every single mis-deed of mankind.  I read the comments of some posters and I feel they want me to feel guilty for being a white man who has experienced some semblance of success in my life.  My family didn't move to Tulsa until more than 40 years after the riots, why should I share in a reparation for something my family had nothing to do with?

Where do you stop with commemorating the cruelty and stupidity with which certain sectors of the human race have treated other sectors?  To me that's not moving forward.

BTW- jackbristow, you opened a huge can of worms on this forum.  I know you couldn't have expected this big a turn-out on your topic, but this is a very sensitive issue amongst Tulsans and we have some of the most passionate Tulsans on this forum.  The title of your topic is pretty inflamatory since many of us believe we've faced the truth over and over.

[jackbristow]

quote:Originally posted by guido911
Your selective parsing out what you previously posted is not going unnoticed. This is what you said:

Wow. Nevermind. You guys are obviously very cynical and small minded and would prefer for this tragedy to just remain swept under the rug and ignored. I get it.

For those who lived through this event though, their story deserves to be told and they deserve more than to be forgotten and ignored.

You people are cold, cynical, heartless and selfish. That is the impression you have given.

Maybe you should work on your "reading comprehension" before lecturing us on what we missed.

And where in the part that I left out did I say anything about paying reparations to people who didn't live back then?  I left it out because it was irrelevant to whether I viewed people who didn't live then deserved anything for it.

Perhaps I was a little harsh and judgmental myself when I wrote all that, so I'll step up and apologize for throwing out those strong words.  Do you think these guys will do the same?

quote:Originally posted by PorkyHow about a giant fire pit in the middle of Bartlet Square for all these cause seekers to jump into?

We could charge them all 5 bucks and use the money to build a better Tulsa, or at least a parking garage for the new BOK Arena!

quote:Originally posted by intellerthat gets my vote.

Your attack style over this junk is sabotaging this thread.  I have been very clear about what my views are and what I mean by everything.  Please address the intention of the posts.

[jackbristow]

I was confused about how this whole thing got so far off topic so I looked back.  Apparently all you guys spewing venom are doing so because you think I support reparations to "North Tulsa" for the riots and a public apology.  I think this stems from my 1st response to ip when I said that "I think this is something that should be discussed."  That one sentence got all you jumping out of your chairs.  I wasn't talking about suing or paying anybody anything.  I was talking about the riots and how I thought the riots and options for doing something about them would be good for discussion on this board.  I am on the fence and open to what people say.  I am uneducated on the subject, saw this presentation that I posted and hoped to learn something.  I'm learning something, but Guido and his crew aren't contributing by attacking and jumping all over people for misunderstandings.