Tulsa Has Never Faced Truth About 1921 Race Riot

[Renaissance]

quote:Originally posted by iplaw

Wow.  How does one get this title?

Have you never heard of John Hope Franklin?

[iplaw]

Maybe it would be wise the next time you quote someone if you make it abundantly clear to everyone what parts of the quotation you do, and do not, agree with.  Mr. Franklin's quotation clearly speaks of suing for damages and reparations.  How are we to know that you aren't in favor of such things when you are the one who quoted Mr. Franklin...

Your OP gave the impression that you implicitly agreed with the statements of Mr. Franklin.  Post rediculous articles about reparations and lawsuits for damages and expect to get fairly curt responses from most rational people...

[iplaw]

quote:Originally posted by Floyd

quote:Originally posted by iplaw

Wow.  How does one get this title?

Have you never heard of John Hope Franklin?

Again, it's safe to depress your "literal" button....the comment was clearly made in jest, but in the future I shall use [sarcasm][/sarcasm] just to be safe.  BTW, it's a Seinfeld reference for anyone interested.

[guido911]

WB: Weren't you complaining just yesterday about not being able to post during work hours? Anyway, being a transplanted Oklahoman, should I assume to have benefited indirectly from the riots and therefore pay reparations?

Jack:  I do not know where I got cross ways with you since I again have no objection to a memorial. BTW, there has been recent redevelopment of Greenwood and I thought there was a Tulsa race riot memorial.
Here are some links:

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3812/is_200107/ai_n8961472

http://72.14.205.104/search?q=cache:InEYS956STUJ:chronicle.com/weekly/v47/i44/44a02203.htm+%22negro+wall+street%22+tulsa&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=30&gl=us


What sets me off is when a good idea like a memorial to a historically significant tragedy turns into reparations of any kind. I am against reparations because they are inherently racially divisive and counter productive. My opinion is not cynicism or because I am heartless.

[jackbristow]

quote:Originally posted by iplaw

Maybe it would be wise the next time you quote someone if you make it abundantly clear to everyone what parts of the quotation you do, and do not, agree with.  Mr. Franklin's quotation clearly speaks of suing for damages and reparations.  How are we to know that you aren't in favor of such things when you are the one who quoted Mr. Franklin...

Your OP gave the impression that you implicitly agreed with the statements of Mr. Franklin.  Post rediculous articles about reparations and lawsuits for damages and expect to get fairly curt responses from most rational people...

You're right.  When I looked back at the 1st post I made that included his presentation to Congress, it did look like I was supporting everything he said.  My bad.  I hoped to use it to spur conversation and to learn something.  Mission accomplished I guess, but not exactly like I expected.

I don't know if I support reparations, a memorial, history center, etc. or not.  All seem like they might be a good thing, (reparations being to those who lived through it or were directly affected by it...NOT en masse), but I am not going out and pushing for them.  I wanted to hear views from both sides with reasons why or why not.

[iplaw]

Just for giggles.  What does "honest confrontation" look like to people who agree with the OP?

What would a memorial honestly do to help change the face of North Tulsa?  For me, I don't really have an objection to one, but to think it's somehow going to change the status quo in North Tulsa.  The culture of violence in North Tulsa mirrors every other large city in the US...most of them never had a riot.

[jackbristow]

quote:Originally posted by guido911

What sets me off is when a good idea like a memorial to a historically significant tragedy turns into reparations of any kind. I am against reparations because they are inherently racially divisive and counter productive. My opinion is not cynicism or because I am heartless.

Excellent points.  Thank you.  And I apologize for getting this thing started in a way that was so confusing.

[Moderator]

Please keep this topic heading back in a civil direction or it will be locked.

[dbacks fan]

quote:Originally posted by ttownclown

Does anyone know what started the riot? Were there any events that led up to or incited it?  I've lived in Tulsa all my life and know very little about the particulars of the devastating event, other than there was a riot.

Here is some interesting reading on what started it.....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulsa_Race_Riot


http://www.rootsweb.com/~oktulsa/riot.htm

http://www.tulsalibrary.org/aarc/riot/riot.htm

In the one from Wikipedia, there is a comment thatwhat fueld things most was the headlines from the Tulsa Tribune.

I did some research on this subject and the Klan when I was in high school back in 1980. I found it very interesting that when looking for articles on microfilm at the downtown library, that the papers that were microfilmed had been conviniently edited by tearing out the aricles at some point in time in both the Tribune and World news papers that came out in the days following the riot.

[waterboy]

quote:Originally posted by guido911

WB: Weren't you complaining just yesterday about not being able to post during work hours? Anyway, being a transplanted Oklahoman, should I assume to have benefited indirectly from the riots and therefore pay reparations?

Did you think that was complaining? Jealous for sure. If you have to know, I don't get lunch til around 2:30-3:00pm and work late into the evening. As far as reparations you're not going to drag me into that area. A memorial is suitable, we have them for the civil war, the trail of tears, and lots of other human catastrophes. To ignore the riot with no memorial would say a lot.

I was simply making note that there are people living in my hood who benefitted from their parents & grandparents' positions during that riot. Often overlooked was that the riot may have been executed by racists but was the result of economic and social changes of the time. If a prosperous area like Greenwood had been allowed to continue their growth, the downtown and near south businessmen stood to lose a lot of business and butler/maid service. My modest home built in 1919 has servants quarters. Throw in the new confidence of the returning WWI soldiers who had fought for the country and were not taking any bs from whitey and you had the makings of a fine little riot.

Note that nearby Alsuma which was a black community near 51st and Mingo posed no such threat to the businessmen and was thus left alone. If you live south of 21st it is likely your home may not have been as valuable today if the rich white folks had decided to continue moving North as they did before the riots. Gilcrease hills would have been our Southern Hills. Tulsa Country club would have been hosting the PGA.

[bugo]

On a better note, Paramount Pictures has interest in Filming a Movie here in Tulsa about the Riots. They are talking with an independent film company as well as some major Actors who as well have expressed a lot of interest.
More info to come soon. Look it up.

[inteller]

quote:Originally posted by bugo

On a better note, Paramount Pictures has interest in Filming a Movie here in Tulsa about the Riots. They are talking with an independent film company as well as some major Actors who as well have expressed a lot of interest.
More info to come soon. Look it up.

it won't fly.  Movies of that era never do well at the box office.

[guido911]

Hollywood made a movie about the Rosewood riot about ten years ago that I thought was pretty good.

[rwarn17588]

Yeah, like "The Untouchables" was a big flop or something. [}:)]

[inteller]

quote:Originally posted by rwarn17588

Yeah, like "The Untouchables" was a big flop or something. [}:)]

untouchables 1930s, race riot 1921...two different fish.