Let's try a new way of discussing immigration..

[iplaw]

quote:Originally posted by shadows
Not withstanding that the court changes the constitution sometimes with their interpretation of a word or phase and has become a politically guided court; still is the last to determinate the laws of the land.  

No dear shadows...there has been no such determination.  The determination of whether they are "legal" is a question that only a court may answer.  I am legal because the question as to the legality of my citizenship (an American born to American citizens) has been vetted by the legal process.  Up until now, no court has had the opportunity to consider the case of children born to illegals.  That != legal citizenship.

We simply have permitted the practice of anchor babies to continue unabated.  That also != legal citizenship.

Wong does not address the facts at hand.

[iplaw]

quote:Originally posted by eron2u

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

We all bleed red!..We are all human beings. How can you call this the bible belt! We are even teaching are kids in schools across the country NOT TO BE RACISITS! Citizen ship, no citizen ship. WHO CARES!!!!!!!!!

IT'S SIMPLE,,IT'S ALL ABOUT MONEY!!!!!!IT ISNT CITIZENSHIPS!!!

This crisis is a shame. It is tearing GOOD, loving families completly apart. Mexicanos married to americanos and Americanos married to Mexicanos,OR WHAT EVER RACE .WITH KIDS, working, etc. Stopped for some unethical reason, basically physical apperence!) and SNATCHED tearing families in half!.hUM I WONDER WHY MOTHERES ARE STANDING IN LINE AT OFFICES. I DO ANYTHING I COULD TO TO FEED MY BABY(S)

What has THIS COUNTRY or state become.! We preach and preach not to be rasicit,OR FIGHT but in turn  are childern watch us..THEY LEARN FROM US!

We are teaching them that a double standard is right!...WRONG...

IT"S money money money, and some one is making it some where.

Where are the people in the church, the belivers? God wasnt from here either, yet we dont question him or send him back, now do we. We dont call people to see if he is on a status do we. but he is here in the US , he is in our homes. He is every where!!!! Real belivers like myself, DONT JUDGE, DONT CARE ABOUT NO MONEY, OR MONEY, IT'S HOW WE TREAT EACH OTHER JUST LIKE THE ABOVE TEACHES US TO DO.

WE SAY NO ABORTION, NO NEGLECT TO OUR BABIES BUT IT'S OK TO SEND A PARENT THAT IS THE SOLE SUPPORTER OF FOOD AND MONEY BACK, LEAVING BABIES AND FAMLIES TO STARVE AND BE HOMELESS..NAH...SOMETHING IS WRONG.

ARE FORFATHERS HAD NO PAPERS EITHER. REMEMBER WE TOOK IT FROM THE INDIANS. GEE I WONDER IF THEY ARE TRYING TO GET IT BACK!

Please take your discussions of religion elsewhere.  It holds not weight in the eyes of the law, and for good reason.

[Chicken Little]

quote:Originally posted by shadows

IPLAW Quoted:
(/quote)Again, all I'm asking for is (1) O-N-E case that states (and not in dicta, in the actual opinion) that children born to illegal immigrants are citizens.(/quote)

(/quote)What the hell are you talking about?(/quote)

In going back over the posting on immigration I see where you are asking for the dictum of just o-n-e case where the court has used a sharp stylus to shape a decision on the right of citizenship to those born under the provisions of the Fourteenth  Amendment to alien parents.  Although this case can be cited as the foundation for instant suits;  being an old case it is relevant in cases that are brought before the courts today.

[In United States v.Wong Kim Ark, 169 U.S. 649 (1898), held that a person born in the United States, and therefore a citizen under the Fourteenth Amendment, could not be excluded as an alien, although his foreign born-parents were not eligible for naturalization.]

Not withstanding that the court changes the constitution sometimes with their interpretation of a word or phase and has become a politically guided court; still is the last to determinate the laws of the land.  

PWNED...by the Shadowman![]

[iplaw]

quote:Originally posted by Chicken Little

quote:Originally posted by shadows

IPLAW Quoted:
(/quote)Again, all I'm asking for is (1) O-N-E case that states (and not in dicta, in the actual opinion) that children born to illegal immigrants are citizens.(/quote)

(/quote)What the hell are you talking about?(/quote)

In going back over the posting on immigration I see where you are asking for the dictum of just o-n-e case where the court has used a sharp stylus to shape a decision on the right of citizenship to those born under the provisions of the Fourteenth  Amendment to alien parents.  Although this case can be cited as the foundation for instant suits;  being an old case it is relevant in cases that are brought before the courts today.

[In United States v.Wong Kim Ark, 169 U.S. 649 (1898), held that a person born in the United States, and therefore a citizen under the Fourteenth Amendment, could not be excluded as an alien, although his foreign born-parents were not eligible for naturalization.]

Not withstanding that the court changes the constitution sometimes with their interpretation of a word or phase and has become a politically guided court; still is the last to determinate the laws of the land.  

PWNED...by the Shadowman![]

[shadows]

IP: You are bluffing.  The court scribes with a sharp stylus on marble that the birthright of which the child was assigned by nature or intelligent design could not be in dispute.  

The second part of the doctrine is painted with a wide brush which included that his parents, being not eligible for nationalism for any cause such as quota, illegal entry, criminal, subvert activity, and et al would have no effect on his birthright citizenship.   The land mark decision is complete in its construction and not subjected to argument.  

The sins of the parents cannot be visited on through their children.  

[iplaw]

quote:Originally posted by shadows

IP: Your are bluffing.  The court scribes with a sharp stylus on marble that the birthright of which the child was assigned by nature or intelligent design could not be in dispute.  

The second part of the doctrine is painted with a wide brush which included that his parents, being not eligible for nationalism for any cause such as quota, illegal entry, criminal, subvert activity, and et al would have no effect on his birthright citizenship.   The land mark decision is complete in its construction and not subjected to argument.  

The sins of the parents cannot be visited on through their children.  

Wong's parents were LEGAL non-citizen residents of the United States.  This case does not analogize to children born to illegals.  I'm not going to belabor this point any longer, either you "get it" or you don't.  You appear not to "get it" and nothing I say will help your misinterpretation of the law.

As to your other rather obscure points I suggest you pick up a Constitutional Law textbook at your nearest library.

QED

[iplaw]

quote:The sins of the parents cannot be visited on through their children.

Tripe.  Explain that then.  See, I can be as flippant as you.

[shadows]

IP;
It is not my intent to spar with you on the instant issue.  I have the book "Constitutional Law (Cases and Materials)" which I am using as a mouse pad at the instant time and have been certified to be able to read at the eight grade level.

Thanks for the QSO on your interpretation of the Fourteenth Amendment.

I will move along now to other subjects.

[heylucylucy]

Can anyone tell me how you can come to this country from Mexico LEGALLY? Mexico is not even in the national lottery is it? I say register everyone, tax them, require them to get some kind of license and insurance. You gotta secure our borders but it seems if we had a guest worker program we would could control the element of those working and living here. Ok I'm sure I'm naive, but thats how i feel....[:X]

[sauerkraut]

quote:Originally posted by heylucylucy

Can anyone tell me how you can come to this country from Mexico LEGALLY? Mexico is not even in the national lottery is it? I say register everyone, tax them, require them to get some kind of license and insurance. You gotta secure our borders but it seems if we had a guest worker program we would could control the element of those working and living here. Ok I'm sure I'm naive, but thats how i feel....[:X]

I say deport them. Not register them and "NO" to guest workers. Whenever a illegal is found out goodbye he's gone. A cop stops a car with a busted taillight finds out the driver is illegal, goodbye- he's gone we should ship him right back home- and so on. We have no idea who they are, Mexico has no criminal registration system to check backgrounds of illegal immigrants and fake I.D. is all over. Deporting and sealing the border is the answer. With the economy slipping into a recession the last thing we need is illegal workers taking American jobs.. Guest Workers" will never leave once here, there is no way to check for background criminal history of guest workers and we don't need them when we have unemployed U.S. citizens looking for work.

[KingMutt]

I am not a big immigration fan, but I think it's nuts to take such a hard stance. The economy is getting bad because we are running out the Mexicans.  I read in the paper that in Kansas there was a special meeting of farmers because they could not find people to work.  I don't think we are ever going to stop immigration, too many powerful rich people have an interest and they dictate what happens.

All the minutemen in the world can't compete with a big corporation and its money.

so I agree, it's probably better to identify people and give them some sort of guest worker status.  In a way, it is the best solution because the people will be able to work and have to follow the rules, but they won't be getting to be citizens.  That ought to satisfy everyone.

[iplaw]

quote:The economy is getting bad because we are running out the Mexicans

Something about the way this is phrased makes me snicker...

[Conan71]

quote:Originally posted by heylucylucy

Can anyone tell me how you can come to this country from Mexico LEGALLY? Mexico is not even in the national lottery is it? I say register everyone, tax them, require them to get some kind of license and insurance. You gotta secure our borders but it seems if we had a guest worker program we would could control the element of those working and living here. Ok I'm sure I'm naive, but thats how i feel....[:X]

Lucy, stop talking nonsense or I'm going down to the Mertz's to get drunk with Fred!

Love,

Ricky

[sauerkraut]

quote:Originally posted by KingMutt

I am not a big immigration fan, but I think it's nuts to take such a hard stance. The economy is getting bad because we are running out the Mexicans.  I read in the paper that in Kansas there was a special meeting of farmers because they could not find people to work.  I don't think we are ever going to stop immigration, too many powerful rich people have an interest and they dictate what happens.

All the minutemen in the world can't compete with a big corporation and its money.

so I agree, it's probably better to identify people and give them some sort of guest worker status.  In a way, it is the best solution because the people will be able to work and have to follow the rules, but they won't be getting to be citizens.  That ought to satisfy everyone.

How can you identify "Guest Workers" or illegal aliens when Mexico has no system of regstration of people with criminal histories, (no criminal records- data bases- are kept like the USA has). You can get a Mexican birth cerf. on the internet and fill it out with any name and address you wish. You don't know who is coming over here. The same goes with that Mexican trucker thing. Mexican truck drivers have no CDL, there's no way to do background checks on drivers you don't know who is driving over here.I don't even think they drug test Mexican truckers.. No nation can be secure by having open borders and not knowing who is here. We do need legal immigrants who have job skills and high education in todays world. Even a high school grad. is not enough today's world most jobs now require college degrees. The hard labor jobs that past immigrants did are gone.  We don't need "guest workers"  and who will check that the "guest workers" go back home when their job is done? We should use some of the illegals we already have here for "guest workers".. What we need is simple. Seal the border and deport, the illegals did not all come over here in one day and they won't all be deported in one day, we start deporting the 12 million illegals one illegal at a time...With a sealed border they can't return. A 1,000 mile walk starts with a single step.

[Porky]

quote:Originally posted by sauerkraut

....

I saw on the news this evening that your Michigan team was seen entering Mexico illegally, while running 50 yards in 5 seconds flat. What's up with that? [^]