East End Update?

[USRufnex]

"Mr. Adwon to the white courtesy phone, please... Mr. Adwon to the white courtesy phone..."

[Rico]

quote:Originally posted by USRufnex

"Mr. Adwon to the white courtesy phone, please... Mr. Adwon to the white courtesy phone..."

^
I wouldn't say you need to reach Mister Adwon for an update on all of this.... There are several registered forum users that have every bit of the inside knowledge..

Funny... in an evil sort of way....
[}:)]

[USRufnex]

quote:Originally posted by booWorld

Second Street connects to the east, and superblocks don't belong downtown.

parking lots with trees don't belong downtown either, but there they stand...

oh, and rico... I'll guess Recyclemichael did it in the kitchen with a lead pipe... am I close?

And now, the rest of the story..... if the link below doesn't work, go to theonion.com and type in the word "developer" to search...
http://www.theonion.com/content/search/onion/advanced?search=developer&restrict=.site:onion

***Please send your tax-deductible donations to The Save Carney Neighborhood Foundation... [}:)]

[Rico]

shhhh........ I think they heard you.

New Downtown Plan Includes Urban Wal-Mart



An Arkansas real estate developer plans a mixed-use project, including an urban Wal-Mart, on the east side of downtown that he believes has the potential to kick-start the redevelopment of the heart of Tulsa, the Tulsa Business Journal learned today.
Read More

[sgrizzle]

So of a 9+ block development GDP planned, they bought 1. And it's smack in the middle.

[TheArtist]

Hopefully they will both be able to start within 2 years.

[aoxamaxoa]

http://www.tulsanow.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=7251

Out the government from messin' with real estate. They screw up too often.

[dsjeffries]

I'm not so sure about this Wal-Mart deal (not the point of having Wal-Mart downtown, but the actual development itself)... It sounds okay but there are HUGE details missing...

quote:"We are working closely with American Residential Group to put in apartments," he said. "We are looking at somewhere around 150 apartments that will be like four stories high with a parking deck."

Seay said there will be some surface parking, "but we are going to try to screen that to the extent that we possibly can with landscaping and with a fence that is brick or rock with metal fencing."

SCREENING, LANDSCAPING and putting a fence around a parking lot does not change the fact that it is SURFACE parking.  How does a screened-in parking lot encourage any future positive use of the land?  I want to know just how much surface parking we're talking about here.  I know it's an impossibility to have zero surface parking, but I don't like that he chose the word 'screen' the parking instead of minimize.

I'm glad the plan includes apartments, though.

quote:He said the Wal-Mart will reflect a new urban look for the retailer.

"It will be brick on all four sides, with maybe some stucco, too – so it looks like an urban store," he said. "I think that would be fantastic for down there. It will be dynamite for downtown."

I don't care if it has an urban look--if it's suburban-type development with an urban facade, it's still suburban development.  Just because it's wrapped in brick doesn't make it urban... And I don't remember stucco ever being the 'urban' thing to use, either.  Multi-level, multi-use buildings are urban whether they're made of mud, steel, brick or recycled tires. A single level, single-use building is just another store, regardless of the material used.

quote:The Seayco Group has primarily developed "big box" retail centers in the 400,000 to 650,000-SF range, including five major centers in Tulsa and Owasso, but in the past year cut its teeth on a downtown development project when it purchased and started renovation of a 34,000-SF historical structure in Conway, Ark.

Being an self-proclaimed big box developer, I don't think a rather small building in Conway, Arkansas counts as "cutting its teeth" on a "downtown" project.

On GDP, this:

quote:"We have acquired one full city block, and we are working on other attractive land," Kissler said. "We intend to do a project – and it will be a big project. When we are in a better position to talk about it, we will."

I want to see more of GDP's plans now that Arkansas has butted in...

I'm hoping for the best, and have my fingers, eyes, toes, arms and legs crossed, but I can't help but think it's going to be a suburban store with an urban front...only, the parking would be on the side instead of in front. What joy.

[TURobY]

I've been to Arkansas, and let me tell you that there is NOTHING there that Tulsa should emulate. []

Except maybe Eureka Springs' downtown. That was kinda cool. [8D]

[AVERAGE JOE]

quote:Originally posted by DScott28604

I'm not so sure about this Wal-Mart deal (not the point of having Wal-Mart downtown, but the actual development itself)... It sounds okay but there are HUGE details missing...

quote:"We are working closely with American Residential Group to put in apartments," he said. "We are looking at somewhere around 150 apartments that will be like four stories high with a parking deck."

Seay said there will be some surface parking, "but we are going to try to screen that to the extent that we possibly can with landscaping and with a fence that is brick or rock with metal fencing."

SCREENING, LANDSCAPING and putting a fence around a parking lot does not change the fact that it is SURFACE parking.  How does a screened-in parking lot encourage any future positive use of the land?  I want to know just how much surface parking we're talking about here.  I know it's an impossibility to have zero surface parking, but I don't like that he chose the word 'screen' the parking instead of minimize.

I'm glad the plan includes apartments, though.

quote:He said the Wal-Mart will reflect a new urban look for the retailer.

"It will be brick on all four sides, with maybe some stucco, too – so it looks like an urban store," he said. "I think that would be fantastic for down there. It will be dynamite for downtown."

I don't care if it has an urban look--if it's suburban-type development with an urban facade, it's still suburban development.  Just because it's wrapped in brick doesn't make it urban... And I don't remember stucco ever being the 'urban' thing to use, either.  Multi-level, multi-use buildings are urban whether they're made of mud, steel, brick or recycled tires. A single level, single-use building is just another store, regardless of the material used.

quote:The Seayco Group has primarily developed "big box" retail centers in the 400,000 to 650,000-SF range, including five major centers in Tulsa and Owasso, but in the past year cut its teeth on a downtown development project when it purchased and started renovation of a 34,000-SF historical structure in Conway, Ark.

Being an self-proclaimed big box developer, I don't think a rather small building in Conway, Arkansas counts as "cutting its teeth" on a "downtown" project.

On GDP, this:

quote:"We have acquired one full city block, and we are working on other attractive land," Kissler said. "We intend to do a project – and it will be a big project. When we are in a better position to talk about it, we will."

I want to see more of GDP's plans now that Arkansas has butted in...

I'm hoping for the best, and have my fingers, eyes, toes, arms and legs crossed, but I can't help but think it's going to be a suburban store with an urban front...only, the parking would be on the side instead of in front. What joy.

Great post, DScott. I'll add my major disappointment in the half-donkey idea to throw up a fence to screen the surface parking. Walking down a row of fence doesn't add urban vibrancy. It says "keep out. move along, nothing to see here."

As for the apartments, if living in a Wal-Mart parking lot was so attractive why aren't there apartments built on Wal-Mart pad sites all over town? I see lots of fast food restaurants out front, but never rowhouses or loft apartments. Now factor in that a person choosing to live downtown is obviously seeking out an urban environment, and a Wal-Mart parking lot ain't it.

The GDP plan is light years better.

[TheArtist]

I dont mind the wal mart being in downtown. If downtown actually takes off it can be redeveloped. It can be seen as just an interim "means to an end".  As for the wall idea. now that sucks. If they insist on having a parking lot I would rather them use the same amount of money to have an unwalled parking lot but with nice landscaping around it with lots of trees interspersed throughout the parking lot. Not a dead wall to drive or walk around. A wall is not a good idea at all. If anything a nice wrought iron fence, that would also help deter car break-ins, and around that some nice landscaping with a sidewalk and trees. Hopefully, oh hopefully the main part of the Wal-Mart and the other retail along with it  will have the front right up next to the street.

I have seen some wal-mart designs that have an urban street facade that looks like many different store fronts on one side of a block with a row of parking in front. other shops going down parts of the sides of the block with a row of parking, then parking behind and in the center of the block. It wouldnt cost hardly any more, if any more, to do an alignment like that.

This may be something TN should try to contact them about and see if we can have some influence on. If designed and laid out right, even if the Wal-Mart didnt succeed, it would leave a decent looking and operating building in the area to be used for other things.

[dsjeffries]

Looks like I was right, after all...suburban development wrapped in brick.

Tulsa World reported this morning that "this single-story store will have a brick facade..." and that it will be about 150,000 square feet. [B)]

That's a LOT of surface space to occupy, when it'd only be half that with even a 2-level store.

I had kept hopes up that Seay actually knew what 'urban' meant, because he kept throwing the word out in his interview(s), but it appears that does not.

I, too would like to see if TN could approach them with suggestions for design improvements.  Maybe with some facts about urbanism, walkability, scale and proportion, surface parking and mixed use facilities, it could help alter the plans...

[cannon_fodder]

Honestly, this Urban Wal-Mart has been in the works for 4 years now.  I was told about it in 2003 by someone that had worked in real-estate for Wal-Mart.  I'm surprised it too so long to become official.

/havent read the entire article yet.  Will comment more later.

[aoxamaxoa]

Let's Seay....The guy owns over $50,000,000 in Wal Mart stock....he ran Wal Mart real estate for 25 years and walks in here and makes this happen.

I can't help but wonder what it was that got Seay's attention in downtown. I'm just guessing when I say there's more to this announcement than meets the streets.

Discount city! Beats not having any stores within walking distance of OSU/Tulsa. Maybe an adjacent movie complex ?

[swake]

I want to see renderings and a site plan but this is not exciting at all.

My guess is that a TIFF will be attached to the Wal-Mart to pay for a baseball stadium on 2nd where the Hartford building is.