Downtown Wal-Mart

[TheArtist]

I get the sinking feeling we are not going to get something like that. They mentioned brick and stuccoe in the article. However, having something downtown that could pull more people and development there will help. There is a lot of empty space down there, plenty of room for other things to go in as well. This is good news in my book. If we can induce them to make any improvements that will make it better,,, all the better.  

Sounds like they are going to have the typical parking in front structure which I do not like. That is not urban at all. At least they could fake it and put the store front close to the street with perhaps a row or two of parking in front and on the sides then the rest in back. Not the best for loading and unloading the trucks but I bet they could arrange to make it work.

A compromise solution could be to make a "street" that runs from 4th to 6th right in front of the Wal-Mart with parking across that street. Basically faking it, the front of the Wal-Mart would be right on the street with the parking in the lot across from it. Have it just 2 lanes with traffic calming elements. Then have some trees, lamp posts, park benches between the street and parking lot. Then they can still have landscaping and a wrought iron fencing around the parking lot for added safety etc.

[dsjeffries]

Some more from the Tulsa World:

quote: Wal-Mart officials plan to join Seay and Williams when they begin the public education process.

Seay and Williams said they hope to have some activity on the project within the next year to 18 months.

I think we need to give THEM some kind of "education process" as they called it.  It is THEY who apparently don't know or don't Care what 'urban' means.
To them, Urban = Bricks.
To me, Their Intelligence = Bricks.

12-18 months isn't a long time, people... We've gotta get crackin'!

Also, to add another example proving that Wal-Mart actually can building something urban, with structured parking, and above the store, even!!!!  (And look, no brick... [])


Remember this:  Wal-Mart is capable of doing whatever a community demands of them... Without that force, though, here comes another suburban big box...

[Chicken Little]

quote:Originally posted by DScott28604

To them, Urban = Bricks.
To me, Their Intelligence = Bricks.

[}:)]

[USRufnex]

http://www.argtulsa.com/

[patric]

Interesting they want to get tax dollars involved in the building of a WalMart --

"The Seayco Group is developing the project. They say the development will have private as well as a pubic partnership. That means your tax dollars could support the new addition."
http://www.fox23.com/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=d044505b-4132-4415-8966-da1e08af4202

On the positive side, I think the artist's rendering posted here of the rooftop parking is worth serious consideration.

[booWorld]

I'm not enthused about the idea of tax dollars supporting the private development.

I wonder how much the public investment will be.  I hope none of it goes toward building illegal and dangerous curb ramps such as those in the Blue Dome district.  I hope none of the public investment goes toward cutting down established shade trees as has been the case along Third and Fourth Streets near Cincinnati recently.  I hope none of the public investment goes toward replacing relatively smooth sidewalks with rough and uneven unit pavers as is happening with the current project on Boston between 3rd and 7th.  I hope the tax dollars will not be funding the installation of any more glaring acorn lights, as has been the recent trend in several areas downtown.

[AVERAGE JOE]

quote:Originally posted by patric

Interesting they want to get tax dollars involved in the building of a WalMart --

"The Seayco Group is developing the project. They say the development will have private as well as a pubic partnership. That means your tax dollars could support the new addition."
http://www.fox23.com/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=d044505b-4132-4415-8966-da1e08af4202

Seems to me that if the Mayor or Himelfarb isn't quoted in the piece, and Councilor Barnes is on record as not having even seen the plans, then they're grossly overstating the public partnership. Might be something they want or need to make the project happen, but if the City leadership isn't saying anything about it publicly, then it's not a done deal.

[RecycleMichael]

I don't think hardly anybody wants this development. Pissing off a bunch of people is not the way to get this thing done.

I could live with a very different type of Urban Wal-Mart, but who is kidding whom? These guys have no intention of doing that.

I say we refuse them any public support and fight them on every detail we can.

[booWorld]

quote:Originally posted by recyclemichael

Pissing off a bunch of people is not the way to get this thing done...

I say we refuse them any public support and fight them on every detail we can.

If the developers expect public support, then they ought to be prepared to face public scrutiny.  However, I imagine they have done their market study, and I imagine that they could build almost anything on that site without upsetting very many people.  As far as urban design standards go, most Tulsans are not particularly demanding.

I'm not saying that's the way things ought to be.  I'm saying that's the ways things are.  I won't be surprised if the developers get a bunch of public support and then proceed to build whatever they want to build, whether it be urban, suburban, or anti-urban.  Sadly, that's the way things work in Tulsa.

[TheArtist]

I think you will definitely hear some hollering if they give a tif to wal-mart. So many people dont like wal-mart as it is. Couple that with the people who wouldnt want a tif for anything and you have got a recipe for a lot of hollering. lol Could even spill over and further hurt chances of the river tax passing.  

But perhaps instead of singling out wal-mart and giving a tif for one thing then another, they could open an "East End tif window" intended to get the development ball rolling in that part of downtown. Any developer that wants to develop something in that area, shows they have financing and meets certain design stipulations will get a tif if its done within a certain time window. Say 2-3 years. After that time, close the tif window and have the city pick 1 other location to move it to, like the river or northside, east side, west. Kind of a rolling tif zone. Could incentivise developers to do something when it was in a particular location and would somewhat limit its use from being for just anyone who asks anywhere in the city at any time. Dont know if you could find a way to really make that work, but just a thought.

[deinstein]

Embarrassing.

[dsjeffries]

That's an interesting idea, Artist.  I wonder, have other cities have ever done something like that?

[booWorld]

I should re-phrase:

I won't be surprised if the developers get a bunch of public financial support in terms of a TIF district or whatever.  If so, I expect there to be some opposition to the development.  But I won't be surprised if the developers end up building what they want to build, regardless of any amount of public support or opposition.

Not very many people live within walking distance of the East End.  Most potential shoppers will be driving to that grocery store.  Most of them will want convenient parking, whether it be on a surface lot or within some type of structure.  Most potential shoppers will not care whether the development is 'urban' or not.

[inteller]

so why doesn't someone come up with a nice art deco looking facade and post the drawing here.  Hell if Home Depot can save the front of the old warehouse market, I think Wal-Mart could throw up something that blends in with the rest of the surrounding area.

[circassia]

I was thinking something either along the lines of how the old Brown Dunkin(hope I spelled that right) or McBirney building looked like. Maybe use the terra cotta tile on the facade, while using an attractive brick surround the rest of the building. You could make the facade look like an interesting mix of those buildings. Maybe do the middle of the building with a pretty glass entrance, to make it look like someone added a new entrance to an old building..

The other idea I was thinking about was making the front look like the old Akdar shrine building. It would look really interesting in that part of downtown.

I have no opinion either way about Wal-Mart going downtown. The Home Depot DT seems to be doing great. If they can make it look cool and maybe pay homage to our once glorious past, it could be good development.

Let's pray it doesn't look like the one near 71st and Memorial!

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