What's wrong with the U.S.A.?

[iplaw]

quote:No one should be surprised it was approved, though. The Bush administration has been systematically dismantling and cutting funding for workplace safety rules and oversight since it came into office.

I love it!  For God's sake...what isn't W's fault?

We should start a 6 degrees of W thread...

[aoxamaxoa]

I do not agree with this article in toto.
But, there are some strong points.

"The Information Age has allowed the economic winners to disassociate themselves with the people they employ or serve, and helped corporations grow enormous."

I agree with this statement.

Unfortunately, leaders since 2000 have  
failed to do what's best for the disadvantaged, the uneducated, and the unhealthy not to mention everyone's surroundings. Instead, we got wasted on war. We will turn around the defeat handed to us by our leaders.

http://scoop.epluribusmedia.org/story/2007/8/18/164242/300

[Double A]

quote:Originally posted by Rico

^

I believe being in a "Right To Work" State comes into play somewhere.........?

In such a State can a Union guarantee ones job...?

I was told that was a very large motivation in Whirlpool moving to Oklahoma.... No pesky union...

Correct me if I am wrong, but I thought Whirlpool came to town before right to work.

[Double A]

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

"Earlier this month, Steve Skvara, a disabled, retired steel worker who can't afford his wife's health care, shook the AFL-CIO's Presidential Candidates Forum by asking tearfully, "What's wrong with America?"

I always stop reading at the first sniff of hyperbole.

Sweeney didn't screw around.  He lost me at the first sentence. [B)]

Then why are you still posting? This seems to have really gotten under your skin, like someone in denial being confronted by reality and fighting facing the truth every step of the way.

[cannon_fodder]

quote:Originally posted by aoxamaxoa

The Information Age has allowed the economic winners to disassociate themselves with the people they employ or serve, and helped corporations grow enormous.

Feudalism allowed the economic winners to dissociate themselves...
Mercantilism allowed the economic winners...
Industrialization allow...
Automation...

and now the information age is to blame.  As with many complaints, this is an old one repackaged.  The Republic was to solve feudalism , the opportunities presented lead to mercantilism and its wealthy trading class.  Industrialization promised to cut everyone in on the trading pie, but the robber barons had all the money.  When labor caught up and started getting the upper hand it became economical to automate.  The automation freed up workers to take office jobs.  And now the information age has apparently screwed them.  Damn the man.

quote:Unfortunately, leaders since 2000 have  
failed to do what's best for the disadvantaged, the uneducated. . ..

Another euphemism for "Bush did it."  Amazing how fast he undid all the glory of Clinton.  Perfect health care, no terrorist attacks, everyone was better educated, and the environment pristine.  Oh the good old days.

/rose lenses

[Ed W]

quote:Originally posted by TheArtist

What part of the country was this employer and when was this?

(First, my apologies for taking so long to respond.  I have to work to take care of my other habit - eating.)

This happened last week in a county just north of Pittsburgh, PA.  I read on the AFL-CIO website that it's a violation of federal law to threaten employees with termination or threaten to close the facility if they express any interest in unionism.  Though that's true, if they tried to organize and were fired, it would probably be a couple of years before the case worked though the courts.  Working people can't wait that long.

We had a Giant Eagle grocery story just outside Grove City when I lived there.  The workers were unionized.  After a protracted contract negotiation, the company closed all the stores one weekend, and re-opened them a few days later as the County Market.  The workers were offered their jobs at about half their former pay.  So the process is hardly new, but there's seldom any penalty for screwing your employees.

I read a piece about the Mattel toy situation earlier today.  The price of toys hasn't changed substantially in 30 years, and some may actually be cheaper now than they were back then.  But in describing the push for lower and lower production costs, and the recent safety considerations revolving around lead based paint in toys, one guy said something like, "Well, sure, we can keep making products cheaper and cheaper, but eventually somethings gotta give."  This time it was safety.  And the Chinese are exporting cars, tires, motorcycles, and aircraft parts to our markets.  Think about that in conjunction with the "It's basic economics" statement.

Sure, you can always make something for less, but PT Barnum was right too when he said there's a sucker born every minute.  There's a time and place for profitability and costs, and there's also a place for our quality of life, our sense of community, and those simple moral decisions that try to find a balance in all these.

[aoxamaxoa]

quote:Originally posted by cannon_fodder

quote:Originally posted by aoxamaxoa

The Information Age has allowed the economic winners to disassociate themselves with the people they employ or serve, and helped corporations grow enormous.

Feudalism allowed the economic winners to dissociate themselves...
Mercantilism allowed the economic winners...
Industrialization allow...
Automation...

and now the information age is to blame.  As with many complaints, this is an old one repackaged.  The Republic was to solve feudalism , the opportunities presented lead to mercantilism and its wealthy trading class.  Industrialization promised to cut everyone in on the trading pie, but the robber barons had all the money.  When labor caught up and started getting the upper hand it became economical to automate.  The automation freed up workers to take office jobs.  And now the information age has apparently screwed them.  Damn the man.

quote:Unfortunately, leaders since 2000 have  
failed to do what's best for the disadvantaged, the uneducated. . ..

Another euphemism for "Bush did it."  Amazing how fast he undid all the glory of Clinton.  Perfect health care, no terrorist attacks, everyone was better educated, and the environment pristine.  Oh the good old days.

/rose lenses

CF...leaders... plural... comprendes vous? I can't help it if the man who had a chance to make a difference could not manage over his mandate. Our leaders had no direction except guidance through fear. Our leaders are shameful. Bought and paid to make bad decisions. Bush will be gone and we will still have the same sorry climate.

"They must find it difficult....
Those who have taken authority as the truth, rather than truth as the authority"
Gerald Massey

[cannon_fodder]

quote:Originally posted by aoxamaxoa

I can't help it if the man who had a chance to make a difference could not manage over his mandate. Our leaders had no direction except guidance through fear. Our leaders are shameful. Bought and paid to make bad decisions. Bush will be gone and we will still have the same sorry climate.

Sad, but true.

[Conan71]

quote:Originally posted by Double A

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

"Earlier this month, Steve Skvara, a disabled, retired steel worker who can't afford his wife's health care, shook the AFL-CIO's Presidential Candidates Forum by asking tearfully, "What's wrong with America?"

I always stop reading at the first sniff of hyperbole.

Sweeney didn't screw around.  He lost me at the first sentence. [B)]

Then why are you still posting? This seems to have really gotten under your skin, like someone in denial being confronted by reality and fighting facing the truth every step of the way.

The author is trying to jerk a tear out of my eye by singling out one pathetic, sad case and making it sound like everyone else is just as screwed.

I'm calling BS on this.  If Skvara is disabled and retired, he and his wife are elligble for medicaid benefits.  Where is his effing union he served for years to help out?  Hmmmm?  Do his union leaders really care any more about him as an individual than the CEO of the company he worked for did?  How much further does the author qualify this man?  Not at all.

Who's to say that this steel worker isn't disabled because he made the stupid decision to smoke and drink whiskey for 40 years.

The media has a bad tendency of using human interest stories to shore up a sloppy editorial piece.  It's irritating as all hell.

People have a choice.  There is no safety in any work place.  Some jobs are deemed more dangerous than others.  People know the risks.  You can't make every work place safe and assuming that the government can police the day-to-day operations of every work environment is preposterous.  OSHA regs are pretty stringent.  It's always been set up as more-or-less a self-policing system, until there's a serious injury or death.  This is nothing new at all under the Bush admin.

It pisses me off to see some crap journalist with a socialist bent **** all over American employers.  Some research he put in here.  You can find his stats on the front page of the NIOSH web site.

Guess what???

The workplace mortality rate is the same as it was reported in a cumulative summary in 2001.  That would have reflected mortality rates during Clinton's administration.

http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/pdfs/2001-147.pdf

Go to page 8 for the summarized stats.

[guido911]

quote:Originally posted by Ed W

We had a Giant Eagle grocery story just outside Grove City when I lived there.  The workers were unionized.  After a protracted contract negotiation, the company closed all the stores one weekend, and re-opened them a few days later as the County Market.  The workers were offered their jobs at about half their former pay.  So the process is hardly new, but there's seldom any penalty for screwing your employees.

Good for "Country Market".

[Double A]

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

quote:Originally posted by Double A

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

"Earlier this month, Steve Skvara, a disabled, retired steel worker who can't afford his wife's health care, shook the AFL-CIO's Presidential Candidates Forum by asking tearfully, "What's wrong with America?"

I always stop reading at the first sniff of hyperbole.

Sweeney didn't screw around.  He lost me at the first sentence. [B)]

Then why are you still posting? This seems to have really gotten under your skin, like someone in denial being confronted by reality and fighting facing the truth every step of the way.

The author is trying to jerk a tear out of my eye by singling out one pathetic, sad case and making it sound like everyone else is just as screwed.

I'm calling BS on this.  If Skvara is disabled and retired, he and his wife are elligble for medicaid benefits.  Where is his effing union he served for years to help out?  Hmmmm?  Do his union leaders really care any more about him as an individual than the CEO of the company he worked for did?  How much further does the author qualify this man?  Not at all.

Who's to say that this steel worker isn't disabled because he made the stupid decision to smoke and drink whiskey for 40 years.

The media has a bad tendency of using human interest stories to shore up a sloppy editorial piece.  It's irritating as all hell.

People have a choice.  There is no safety in any work place.  Some jobs are deemed more dangerous than others.  People know the risks.  You can't make every work place safe and assuming that the government can police the day-to-day operations of every work environment is preposterous.  OSHA regs are pretty stringent.  It's always been set up as more-or-less a self-policing system, until there's a serious injury or death.  This is nothing new at all under the Bush admin.

It pisses me off to see some crap journalist with a socialist bent **** all over American employers.  Some research he put in here.  You can find his stats on the front page of the NIOSH web site.

Guess what???

The workplace mortality rate is the same as it was reported in a cumulative summary in 2001.  That would have reflected mortality rates during Clinton's administration.

http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/pdfs/2001-147.pdf

Go to page 8 for the summarized stats.

                                                 Tulsa needs an intervention, but neocons need one much worse.

[Conan71]

^^

Come on AA, is that the best you can do?

[Double A]

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

^^

Come on AA, is that the best you can do?

                                              You still here, I thought we lost you at the first sentence?

[Hoss]

quote:Originally posted by Ed W

quote:Originally posted by TheArtist

What part of the country was this employer and when was this?

(First, my apologies for taking so long to respond.  I have to work to take care of my other habit - eating.)

This happened last week in a county just north of Pittsburgh, PA.  I read on the AFL-CIO website that it's a violation of federal law to threaten employees with termination or threaten to close the facility if they express any interest in unionism.  Though that's true, if they tried to organize and were fired, it would probably be a couple of years before the case worked though the courts.  Working people can't wait that long.

We had a Giant Eagle grocery story just outside Grove City when I lived there.  The workers were unionized.  After a protracted contract negotiation, the company closed all the stores one weekend, and re-opened them a few days later as the County Market.  The workers were offered their jobs at about half their former pay.  So the process is hardly new, but there's seldom any penalty for screwing your employees.

I read a piece about the Mattel toy situation earlier today.  The price of toys hasn't changed substantially in 30 years, and some may actually be cheaper now than they were back then.  But in describing the push for lower and lower production costs, and the recent safety considerations revolving around lead based paint in toys, one guy said something like, "Well, sure, we can keep making products cheaper and cheaper, but eventually somethings gotta give."  This time it was safety.  And the Chinese are exporting cars, tires, motorcycles, and aircraft parts to our markets.  Think about that in conjunction with the "It's basic economics" statement.

Sure, you can always make something for less, but PT Barnum was right too when he said there's a sucker born every minute.  There's a time and place for profitability and costs, and there's also a place for our quality of life, our sense of community, and those simple moral decisions that try to find a balance in all these.

Ed, this may be a little off topic, but you wouldn't happen to now work for a company in Tulsa that has a branch in Grove City PA, would you?

[TheArtist]

Get some of those Pittsburg people to move here. Just about every week or so I hear about some company or another hiring or having trouble filling positions.

Here is one for this week.

http://www.kotv.com/news/local/story/?id=134312

Plus remember, if you dont like working for others work for yourself. Start your own company.