The State of Oklahoma, and Tulsa should be ashamed

[Ibanez]

I just finished a trip thru Kansas, Missouri, Illinois, Indiana, Ohio, Michigan and parts of Wisconsin and I can say that without a doubt they all have better roads and bridges than we do.

It isn't even close.

Take Michigan and Wisconsin for example. I was in the far Northern parts of those states. Drove the entire state of Michigan, crossed the Mackinac Bridge, crossed the Michigan U.P. and then into Wisconsin. Anway...those roads are smooth as silk. I'm not just talking the major interstates either. It makes me sick that they have such nice roadways and bridges and we have such total crap. Hell their roads are built in a far worse environment, hello 260 inches of snow in an average year, than ours are and they look flawless.

I'm so mad right now I'm ready to march on OKC and ask them just what the F*** they have been doing with our money for so many years.

[sgrizzle]

Building stuff in OKC and BFE.

[Wingnut]

While I'm no roadway engineer, the reason why our roads are crap is because of the cycles they go thru each year. Up north, they get cold and stay cold until spring. Here, they get cold, warm up, get cold again, ad nauseum. Water enters the road surface, freezes and cracks it up. The summer is also a lot hotter here than up there, which tends to melt the asphalt. In the north, their roads may cycle 3 or 4 times, while down here, it may be 15-20.
It seems that we need an entirely different road material technology for this area of the country. At the least, we should look a Kansas and such to see how they do it, since they have similar climate swings as we do.

And, yes, where has our roadway money gone!?!

[claygate39]

Oklahoma is a poor state - that is all that need be said.

[iplaw]

quote:Originally posted by claygate39

Oklahoma is a poor state - that is all that need be said.

Thanks troll.

[swake]

We have the lowest fuel taxes in the entire nation.

It's really that simple, we have gotten what we have paid for, which is cheap gas and crappy roads, outside of metro Oklahoma City.

[Friendly Bear]

quote:Originally posted by swake

We have the lowest fuel taxes in the entire nation.

It's really that simple, we have gotten what we have paid for, which is cheap gas and crappy roads, outside of metro Oklahoma City.

Thought I was reading a Lorton's World article, authored by the Swake, there for just a moment.  

It is a patented Lorton's World Half-Truth to say our roads are bad because our fuel taxes are so low.

The REST of the truth is that approximately ONE-HALF of the fuel taxes are siphoned off by our state legislature and spent in the General Fund.  For everything under the sun EXCEPT roads.

THAT is the one major reason why we have such terrible state roads.

A second major reason for terrible roads is that our Tulsa legislators do fight hard enough to get state road building for the metro Tulsa area.  Oklahoma City and rural legislators team up to divide ALL the road building money, and Tulsa ends up with a few, measley crumbs.  Oklahoma City has fine six lane highways running in every direction, and the rural areas have 4 lane roads running from No-Wheres-Ville to End-of-the-Earth, or Cordell to Clinton.

Finally, the Turnpike Addiction which has built many roads receives almost -0- Federal Funding for road building, only a minor pittance for signage.  That is another major reason why Oklahoma has been a DONOR state on federal fuel tax for about 50 years, because building stupid Turnpikes denies access to the 80% Federal Funding for Interstate highways.  

Until Sen. Inhofe temporarily got Oklahoma some additional Federal funding for road-building, Oklahoma had been a perpetual Donor State, due to the Turnpike Addiction.  That money isn't coming back again with Inhofe now in the Senate minority.

The Truth, the Whole Truth, and Nothing But the Truth.

[:O]

[swake]

Bear,

I agree with what you have said too. And the weather is also a big factor. A huge one, in Oklahoma we need to be spending more money on roads and we get less money from the feds per capita and we get less from taxes. That all equals the fact that we have the worst roads in the nation. We should have been getting more from the feds and we should be paying more at the pump, we haven't been.

Sorry, but there is no free lunch.

[Townsend]

More good news.  Sorry, normally I'm a shiny happy person.

I wonder how often we lose funding like this.

http://www.kotv.com/news/local/story/?id=134590

[Conan71]

Oklahoma is not a good state for asphalt roads- yet we persist because ostensibly they are cheaper going in.  Far more expensive to maintain.  Concrete with expansion joints works far better for the climate cycles we have.

Drive any stretch of road around Tulsa constructed from concrete, then drive down some asphalt.  It's like driving down an aiport runway, then turning off onto the lunar landscape.

Doesn't matter if I have four flats and a bent frame by the time I get there, but by-God we will have a really cool river!

[rwarn17588]

Another reason that Oklahoma doesn't have a lot of money for roads is because its population is small. There's not a lot of tax base to draw from.

Combine that with Oklahoma being a big state geographically and the other problems people have mentioned, and you have underfunded roads.

Not much is going to be done until the roads get SO bad that the public will *want* a gas-tax increase. I don't see any other solution, save for a heck of a lot of additional federal money.

[cannon_fodder]

There are many states with smaller population densities than Oklahoma (density is what matters for road funding).  Heck, most Western states do.  But our lack of concentration on roads, coupled with a lack of federal funding (look at the ratios sometime), the concentration of road monies in OKC and rural Oklahoma, as well as our hell on roads weather patterns lead to bad roads (hot hot hot, freeze thaw, lots of water = possibly the worst location for a road in the USA).

I have to agree, the roads are not good.

[Friendly Bear]

quote:Originally posted by swake

Bear,

I agree with what you have said too. And the weather is also a big factor. A huge one, in Oklahoma we need to be spending more money on roads and we get less money from the feds per capita and we get less from taxes. That all equals the fact that we have the worst roads in the nation. We should have been getting more from the feds and we should be paying more at the pump, we haven't been.

Sorry, but there is no free lunch.

Wonder if adding 5 feet and 8,000 pounds to the Federal Truck Weight limits has had any effect on our roads and bridges??  Now up to 53' and 80,000 pounds, vs. 48' and 72,000 lbs. for almost the entire life of the Interstate Highway System??  

Did Arkansas-based Wal-Mart, Hunt Trucking, and Tysons get their very own Slick Willie to up the Federal weight and length limits for trucks?? Hmmmhh?

Yes, weather is a factor, too, with very wide swings in temperatures.  You would think that there is at least one civil engineering graduate in Oklahoma who just might have a better idea on how to build Oklahoma roads to last.  

But then again, if they engineered and built our roads to LAST, the engineering and road construction cartel would be actually WORSE off, because that would slow the road re-building and re-paving cycle.

So, what's their incentive for building roads to last?  We use a lot of asphalt because of the powerful influence of companies such as Conoco and Phillips (now Conoco-Phillips!).

And, our road builders don't asphalt the roads in a manner to last.  In Europe, they use an updated version of the old macadam process, and their asphalt roads stay in excellent condition for a long period of time.  

And, merely raising the State Fuel Tax does NOT equal more road spending.

It just means more taxes.

It is a fact that already approximately 1/2 of the state fuel taxes are siphoned off for NON-ROAD related state spending.

And you want to give those rotten maggots in Oklahoma City HIGHER FUEL TAXES??

[}:)]

[swake]

We encourage trucks to cross our state with really low diesel taxes and allow double and even triple tractor trailer rigs. If a single semi does that damage of 1000 cars, what does a triple rig do? And that's all aside from the danger aspect of allowing what is basically a train on the highway.

And we encourage trucks on our highways with low fuel taxes on our already poor roads? This is just beyond stupidity to me.

[Friendly Bear]

quote:Originally posted by swake

We encourage trucks to cross our state with really low diesel taxes and allow double and even triple tractor trailer rigs. If a single semi does that damage of 1000 cars, what does a triple rig do? And that's all aside from the danger aspect of allowing what is basically a train on the highway.

And we encourage trucks on our highways with low fuel taxes on our already poor roads? This is just beyond stupidity to me.

As long as we have I-40, I-35, and I-44, there are going to be a LOT of trucks crossing Oklahoma.  .

I-35 runs from Laredo to Minneapolis.

I-40 is coast to coast.

And, the heavy trucks do a LOT of damage to our highways and bridges

Uh, we could ACTUALLY raise the fuel tax on ONLY DIESEL FUEL.

Anyone thought of THAT!