Tulsa could smell like a rose

[Hometown]

For about two years now I've been trying to raise a stink about the odor in Tulsa.  I wish I had printed out my first thread on this subject because what was most remarkable were the local cheerleaders who were insisting they never smelled a thing.

Then there was the break through thread where suddenly everyone felt a sense of permission to admit that, yes, not only Tulsa, but their very own neighborhood stunk.  People from as far away as east of Harvard testified that the odor from the refineries had drifted over from the River area.  NellieBly talked about that "napalm" smell.

Recycle Michael argued that it wasn't just the refineries that stunk, that other industrial sites near the river were involved.  But having grown up in Tulsa I found the current smell remarkably similar to that same old refinery smell I smelled during my childhood here in the 50s.

I decided to do a little research and discovered that at least three Tulsa neighborhoods had filed lawsuits against one or both of the refineries; but without success.  Meanwhile, a walk through my lovely neighborhood around dawn or dusk was more often than not punctuated with refinery stink.

I thought it was odd when a group of local rich folks proposed luxury housing at the river just a stones throw away from one of our smelly old refineries.  I thought when is someone in leadership going to face reality and admit that Tulsa stinks.  I mean the road to something better begins by acknowledging where you are really at.

You can imagine I was quite amazed this week to a see a story in the World about some authority or another addressing the stink issue.  Someone raised the point that running the new river pathway over the sewage drying fields south of 51st was problematic.  The same story mentioned the refineries as a source of stink but otherwise did not address the refineries.

Then lo and behold the following day the World ran an editorial about the stink.  The editorial was toothless and largely forgettable and did not address benzene emissions and cancer but the fact that the World admitted the stink exists was significant.  I mean they even used the word "stink."

The editorial sort of addressed the refineries by saying that the refinery smell could be eliminated and that the Sinclair Refinery was making improvements now that would eliminate their smell.

My first response was, if the refinery smell could be eliminated without moving the refinery away, why for God's sake hasn't anyone made this Tulsa's first priority?  I mean it is one thing to get your priorities out of whack, but it's another thing to allow the greater part of your city to stink when there is a solution available.

I'm a strong believer in first things first and getting rid of Tulsa's smelly stink has to be right up there with maintaining roads and public safety.  Just imagine, according to the World the refinery smells could be eliminated.

Tulsa, we love you girl, but you have stunk for close to a 100 years.

[dsjeffries]

For the last few weeks, I've been thinking about the 'Big Stink' that people keep talking about with regard to the river.  All I can think of is how I, personally, have never encountered a horrid stench near the river.

In fact, I just enjoyed a lovely evening along the Arkansas's banks two nights ago and actually tried to smell something bad.  It didn't work.

Perhaps I just don't run the RiverTrails enough, or visit River's Edge enough, but I think all the attention on the smell is a bit over-exaggerated.

It might smell, but it's incorrect to say that it is in a perpetual stink.

I really hate that the refineries located along the west bank so many years ago.  Just imagine the type of development and growth the west bank could've seen!  It could've slowed the massive explosion of growth that pushed Tulsa further South and East, instead of around its Central Business District (and downtown could've actually been central)... It could've done a lot for the area, and who knows, Tulsa today could've been an actual river town.  Then we wouldn't even be in a predicament about the pollution and stench of refineries and river development... It would've occurred naturally.

Oh well, my dream's up.  []

[RecycleMichael]

quote:Originally posted by Hometown

Recycle Michael argued that it wasn't just the refineries that stunk, that other industrial sites near the river were involved.  But having grown up in Tulsa I found the current smell remarkably similar to that same old refinery smell I smelled during my childhood here in the 50s.

Are you saying your nose knows something I don't?

[Renaissance]

I can remember a handful of mornings over the last two decades when the distinct smell of sulphur or methane or what-have-you wafted over my house (just west of Harvard, north of 31st).  

So yes, there is a smell coming from the river once in a blue moon.

But it just isn't very often.  It's not something that is constant.  Nor does it affect quality of life in Midtown.  It's just one more thing for naysayers to ***** about.

[MichaelBates]

quote:Originally posted by DScott28604

In fact, I just enjoyed a lovely evening along the Arkansas's banks two nights ago and actually tried to smell something bad.  It didn't work.

Topography, prevailing winds, air density (affected by temperature, pressure, and humidity), and the density of odor-causing chemicals are all going to affect where the smells go.

I suspect the refinery smell wouldn't be as bad at the elevation of the river bank. Whatever's causing the bad smell is being released well above ground level, and it's more likely to affect places up the hill from the river, particularly those to the north, like Owen Park and Irving neighborhoods when the wind is southerly as it usually is, or Maple Ridge when the wind is more southwesterly.

When Maple Ridge residents were dealing with noise from the Sinclair refinery several years ago, the problem was more acute near 21st and Madison than downhill and closer to the river.

When the wind is from the west, you can smell a caustic odor strongly as far east as 21st and Yale, which is near the crest of the ridge between the Arkansas and Verdigris valleys. That seems to happen most often in the winter months. I've always suspected that was either a refinery or the trash-to-energy plant.

[cannon_fodder]

I live near 31st and Harvard and I do not recall ever smelling the refinery nor sewage.  I go to the river parks (mostly near 31st - downtown) and have not smelled sewage and rarely smell the refineries (some days with a very light breeze from the west you get the tar smell, maybe 5% of the time).  I drive up riverside several times a month to go out to Bixby (scenic route for me) and do not recall smelling sewage.

Likewise, I occasional frequent the river parks on the West Side of the river and have had friends live in the noted apartments near OSU on the west side.  I can acknowledge that there is a higher propensity for the tar smell over there.  IN my experience it is present 20-25% of the time in a bothersome manner.  Certainly enough to cause some issue but not unbearable for the residents nor visitors.

I can not argue that it is not a problem, but I can attest to the fact that it has not bothered ME enough to spend $$$ on.  There may be areas that are worse that I have no experienced.  There are certainly times that it is worse.  But I am not prepared to say that I would avoid an area due to smells in Tulsa.

Just my .02 dollars.

[NellieBly]

I don't think I ever referred to the smell as napalm. Hell, if anything, I grew up in Maple Ridge. The river smell reminds me of my childhood.

[Rico]

quote:Originally posted by recyclemichael

quote:Originally posted by Hometown

Recycle Michael argued that it wasn�t just the refineries that stunk, that other industrial sites near the river were involved.  But having grown up in Tulsa I found the current smell remarkably similar to that same old refinery smell I smelled during my childhood here in the 50s.

Are you saying your nose knows something I don't?

While you are at it RM.... At the time we were last discussing this fowl smell.... You said "the EPA had crews taking air quality samples in Tulsa."

What did those fellows come up with...?

[Conan71]

Hometown, here's an "article" which pre-dated the "op-ed" by a day.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=070822_1_A1_hSmel63665

I see what Lorton is up to now.  The World stretched the story further into an op-ed to help sell the river tax.

Reason?

Ostensibly, new river commercial development will help spur an economic (and sales tax) boom which will miraculously cure the $5.5mm deficiency we have in crumbling, inefficient, and outdated infrastructure, including mitigating odor from the WWT system on the west bank.

Forgive me my cynicism, but this river development isn't going to bring in tons of new sales tax revenue.  All it will do is shift the collection points of the tax revenue from other parts of the city to the river.  

I honestly cannot see our idea of river development making Tulsa a "destination" city.  Granted, it might bring some people in for a look-see, but not the additional kind of numbers to generate $5.5bn in new sales tax revenue in any sort of reasonible time frame.  Not in what's left of my life-time anyhow.

[Rico]

^

Thanks Conan.........

Now with the help of Mister Sevenoaks...

Authority member Richard Sevenoaks said the problem is that the "sewer plant and the open drying beds are in the wrong location for river development."

"There is the Turkey Mountain trail system running behind the sewage plant, and a planned pedestrian bridge going right across our sewer overflow basin," he said.

"We can mitigate some of the smell, but you still have this sewer plant in the middle of river development," he said.

"So we expect someone to spend $200 million in private funds to look out onto the sewer plant or drying beds or whatever it may be?" he asked. "That's a difficult situation with a costly solution."

I think I have a firm grasp of this River Project thing............

It is all about "sewer beautification.."

Maybe instead of any water feature on the parks banks we could have a GIANT BIDET....

That would give it that French Artsy Flair
like on the River Seine..
[}:)]

[Conan71]

The nature of this latest "development" is a lot like an Xmas package.  You don't have a clue what's in there.

Surprises from friends and family are welcome.  

Surprises from government often suck.

Rico- the bedet- hillarious!

[TheArtist]

I think the quickest way to get something done about the smell is to have some big development complaining about it, investors complaining about it, taxpayers complaining that they spent money and they cant use their investment because of the smell, and a lot more people down there noticing it and complaining about it.

So it sounds to me like what people are really saying is... We dont want any development down there because then we will HAVE to pay to have the smell fixed?

Because we all know the one sure way to NOT get anything done about it is continue as we have with no development down there.

[shadows]

"Would not the rose by any other name smell as sweet?"

Would the drying ponds for Tulsa's s**t by any other name not smell like s**t when their overflows run into the river?

Gasoline numbs the ability to distinguish between different smells.  Three beers or two mixed drinks also affect the senses of smell.  If one lived in the ranch acres area and could not smell the Tulsa disposal I believe that the one for Jenks at the bend of the river would ride on south winds.   The refineries are supposedly burning off their odors and gases in a flare above the installation.  Topless bars should pick up the dollars that the casinos are missing and the drunks could be sobered up by pushing them in the river.

We are just interring into the first phase of what the 2025 tax act was to include.  Before we even get that straighten out we are promoting a much larger promotion that I am sure we will find that instead of strings attached they are steel cables on any private funding.

Lets go go and see how far we can drive the next generation into debt by helping those donators get rid of their money.  

[waterboy]

quote:Originally posted by shadows

"Would not the rose by any other name smell as sweet?"

Would the drying ponds for Tulsa's s**t by any other name not smell like s**t when their overflows run into the river?

Gasoline numbs the ability to distinguish between different smells.  Three beers or two mixed drinks also affect the senses of smell.  If one lived in the ranch acres area and could not smell the Tulsa disposal I believe that the one for Jenks at the bend of the river would ride on south winds.   The refineries are supposedly burning off their odors and gases in a flare above the installation.  Topless bars should pick up the dollars that the casinos are missing and the drunks could be sobered up by pushing them in the river.

We are just interring into the first phase of what the 2025 tax act was to include.  Before we even get that straighten out we are promoting a much larger promotion that I am sure we will find that instead of strings attached they are steel cables on any private funding.

Lets go go and see how far we can drive the next generation into debt by helping those donators get rid of their money.  

Why don't you use your energies to demand cleaner burning refineries, better waste treatment facilities and more stringent requirements on river discharges. One could make the argument that if we abstain from river development, like you wish, because the refineries and waste treatment plants are fouling the river, then no effort needs to be made to stop such fouling because no one uses the river anyway. That is what "no change" does. It freezes us in time so we can complain for ever about the same things. Groundhog day.

[Rowdy]

quote:Originally posted by cannon_fodder

I live near 31st and Harvard and I do not recall ever smelling the refinery nor sewage.  I go to the river parks (mostly near 31st - downtown) and have not smelled sewage and rarely smell the refineries (some days with a very light breeze from the west you get the tar smell, maybe 5% of the time).  I drive up riverside several times a month to go out to Bixby (scenic route for me) and do not recall smelling sewage.

Likewise, I occasional frequent the river parks on the West Side of the river and have had friends live in the noted apartments near OSU on the west side.  I can acknowledge that there is a higher propensity for the tar smell over there.  IN my experience it is present 20-25% of the time in a bothersome manner.  Certainly enough to cause some issue but not unbearable for the residents nor visitors.

I can not argue that it is not a problem, but I can attest to the fact that it has not bothered ME enough to spend $$$ on.  There may be areas that are worse that I have no experienced.  There are certainly times that it is worse.  But I am not prepared to say that I would avoid an area due to smells in Tulsa.

Just my .02 dollars.

Unfortunately there is a stench when crossing the flood canal just before getting to the 131st and Memorial intersection.