Turnpike/interstate question

[runderwo]

Isn't it strange that Oklahoma collects tolls on the interstates?  In other states you usually have a toll road that runs parallel to the publicly funded roads.

Are they double dipping by taking both tolls and  federal highway funds or is there another reason for it?

[cannon_fodder]

Toll roads on interstates are roads that were in place before the Interstate System came into being.  They exempted the roads and have an agreement for specifications and maintenance with the States while alloted an equivalent amount of Federal dollars.  Essentially, the states that took the initiative were rewarded:

quote:Today, the 46,730-mile Interstate System includes approximately 2,900 miles of turnpikes.

http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/infrastructure/tollroad.htm

Google is your friend.

[rwarn17588]

Oklahoma is hardly the only state that collects tolls on interstates.

[Conan71]

FWIW, I-35 is a toll road through most of it's run from southern Kansas to Kansas City.

There is a publicly funded road roughly adjacent to I-44: Route 66.

[cannon_fodder]

Dang it people, follow the link... its all in there:

quote:    Connecticut Turnpike, 98 miles: the section from the New York State line to Old Lyme, except the section at New Haven.

   *Florida: Sunshine State Parkway, 41 miles: the northern portion, from Fort Pierce to Palm Beach.

   Illinois: North Illinois Turnpike (Chicago-Rockford-Beloit), 47 miles: The northern portion, from south of Barrington to near Beloit.

   Illinois: Tri-State Turnpike, 73 miles: from Calumet Expressway west and north around Chicago to the Wisconsin State line near U.S. 41, including a 5-mile spur near Deerfield to Edens Expressway.

   *Indiana Turnpike, 151 miles: the entire route from the Ohio State line to the Illinois State line.

   *Kansas Turnpike, 184 miles: from Kansas City to Topeka and from Emporia to the Oklahoma State line (the entire route except the Topeka-Emporia section).

   *Kentucky Turnpike, 123 miles: from Boston to East Lee (the entire route except a short section at the west end).

   *New Hampshire Turnpike, 15 miles: The entire route from Seabrook to Portsmouth.

   *New Jersey Turnpike, 8 miles: the section from Newark Airport to Holland Tunnel.

   *New York Thruway, 506 miles: the entire route from Yonkers to the Pennsylvania State line near Erie.

   New York: Niagara Thruway, 8 miles: a section in Buffalo.

   New York: New England Thruway, 4 miles: a section in New Rochelle.

   *Ohio Turnpike, 173 miles: from the Indiana State line to southwest of Cleveland and from west of Youngstown to the Pennsylvania State line (the entire route except the Cleveland-Youngstown section).

   *Oklahoma, Turner Turnpike, 177 miles: the entire route from Oklahoma City to the Missouri State line near Joplin.

   *Pennsylvania Turnpike, 359 miles: from the Ohio State line to Bristol (the entire route except a short section at the eastern end).

   Virginia: the Richmond-Petersburg toll road, 35 miles: the entire route from Richmond to Petersburg.

[rwarn17588]

That link missed at least one toll road. I-88 is toll from Chicago to about Dixon, Ill.

[cannon_fodder]

That list was from a 1957 press release.  Not sure what changed to exempt the Reagan Memorial Tollway (I-88) but the name suggests a more recent change.  I'm sure there are others that have changed since 1957 which garner a different explanation which you are more than welcome to locate.

But, pertaining to the Oklahoma turnpikes and in general - the above applies.

[sauerkraut]

Oklahoma and FL. have tons of toll roads. They are supposted become "free" roads when they are paid off but few do. The I-30 Dallas-Fort Worth turnpike became a free road when it was paid off around 1977. The gas tax is supposted to pay for the roads along with the license fees. Toll roads leave a sour taste in many people's mouth. All the major highways around Tulsa are toll roads. OKC has 2 free interstates I-35 & I-40. Those are the only two free highways in the state.

[sgrizzle]

quote:Originally posted by sauerkraut

Oklahoma and FL. have tons of toll roads. They are supposted become "free" roads when they are paid off but few do. The I-30 Dallas-Fort Worth turnpike became a free road when it was paid off around 1977. The gas tax is supposted to pay for the roads along with the license fees. Toll roads leave a sour taste in many people's mouth. All the major highways around Tulsa are toll roads. OKC has 2 free interstates I-35 & I-40. Those are the only two free highways in the state.

Roads that are turnpikes do not collect gas tax and license fees, those are returned to the state to be spent on other roads.

[rwarn17588]

sauerkraut wrote:

All the major highways around Tulsa are toll roads.

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U.S. 75 isn't a major road? U.S. 169 north of town isn't a major road?

With all those lanes, they sure as hell look like major roads to me.

[sauerkraut]

quote:Originally posted by rwarn17588

sauerkraut wrote:

All the major highways around Tulsa are toll roads.

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U.S. 75 isn't a major road? U.S. 169 north of town isn't a major road?

With all those lanes, they sure as hell look like major roads to me.

OK but U.S. 75 has alot of cross streets and it's slow driving/traffic choked road. U.S. 169 turns into a narrow 2-lane road north of Oologah. Those can be called major roads but I was thinking more along the lines of limeted access roads like freeways. All the other highways around Tulsa are toll roads U.S. 412 west thru Keystone Lake, I-44 Will Rogers Turnpike,-- I-44 Turner Turnpike, U.S. 75 south of Henyetta is the Indian Nation TurnPike. Highway 64 (the BA expressway) turns into the Muskogee Turnpike. Tulsa is surrounded by toll roads. Tulsa is second only to Orlando FL in number of toll roads. I'm old fashioned I like free roads, but that's just me.. Add up the amount of money people spend who drive toll roads daily, it really adds up..[B)]

[cannon_fodder]

Chicago has 5 Toll roads:
Chicago Skyway
North-South Tollway
Northwest Tollway
Ronald Reagan Memorial Tollway
Tri-State Tollway

Tulsa has the Creek, Turner, and Will Rogers.

So based on that alone I can say you are incorrect.  I didnt even look at any other cities to verify any other claims.

It is also worth noting that many cities would kill for our highway infrastructure.  Even cities like Albuquerque with intersecting interstates and serving as the state capital lack a highway system as good as Tulsa's.  THATS why we have toll roads.  

Its about the only tax the government levies that actually makes sense.  Take money from road users to use on roads.

[sauerkraut]

quote:Originally posted by cannon_fodder

Chicago has 5 Toll roads:
Chicago Skyway
North-South Tollway
Northwest Tollway
Ronald Reagan Memorial Tollway
Tri-State Tollway

Tulsa has the Creek, Turner, and Will Rogers.

So based on that alone I can say you are incorrect.  I didnt even look at any other cities to verify any other claims.

It is also worth noting that many cities would kill for our highway infrastructure.  Even cities like Albuquerque with intersecting interstates and serving as the state capital lack a highway system as good as Tulsa's.  THATS why we have toll roads.  

Its about the only tax the government levies that actually makes sense.  Take money from road users to use on roads.

What about that U.S. 412 Keystone Lake toll road? What about the Muskogee Turnpike? What about the Creek Turnpike? Those are all around Tulsa. Did you forget about those?

[sauerkraut]

May I add, Tulsa roads are in poor shape, pot holes, chuck holes, too narrow, too old. The I-44 section thru Tulsa is old and narrow and needs to be widened. Lewis & Peoria are narrow roads full of holes and bumps. The RiverSide jogging Trail is also in poor shape full of pot holes, cracks, narrow, crumbling and badly needs a rebuild. There's alot of road work that needs to be done. or so it seems to me. thanx.

[cannon_fodder]

412 Starts as a toll road some 40 miles outside of Tulsa, out past Keystone lake (which I am at nearly every weekend toll free).  May as well count the Cherokee and Indian nation turnpikes if we are counting that far outside of town.

And yes I did forget about the Muskogee turnpike.  However, it should be noted that the Will Roger's and the Turner are the same road, so lets just call that even.

The Creek was specifically mentioned.
- - -

Yes, there are lots of turnpikes in and around Tulsa.  My major problem over and over is someone sees something they do not like so they invent statistics and exercise great hyperbole while presenting the issue.  "Tulsa is second in the nation for toll roads,"  while Tulsa certainly has a lot of toll roads and probably the most for a city its size - you clearly had no real basis for that statement.

again, Tulsa has lots of Toll roads because that is the best way to fund highway systems.  The users pay for the road.  Just like those who use water, electricity, or any other product are expected to pay for it.  Without such projects Tulsa would have a single link (I-44) to operate commerce and the Creek would not exist.