Riverwalk Phase II

[Gaspar]

That must take about 5 minutes (assume you are talking about NON-food businesses)

No, we usually eat, spend some time listening to whatever band is playing, walk down to the spash pad with the kids and let them frolic for a while, or catch a movie.  We drop in some of the retailers along the way.  If the grandparents have the kids and it's not to hot we stop at the boat bar, have a beer and people watch, or the cigar bar for a beer and a chat. It's always a good inexpensive way to spend a friday night.  Tulsa should develop something like it along it's side of the river.

[FOTD]

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by inteller</i>

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by FOTD</i>

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by swake</i>

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by safetyguy</i>

Whatever happened to announcing the retailers coming? They acted like when they first announced that it wouldn't be too long before they announced some of the new retailers to occupy the space.
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I bet with The River District coming they are going to struggle with retailers, at least good ones.

My guess is that the Riverwalk will become more and more of a bar district with retail driven by that kind of crowd.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

SUPER! More bar districts! WHOOPPPEEE!!! Alcohol has proven to be such a great drug for society.

Using the money from TIF, I see the day coming where a sizable portion is used for bribing Nordstroms....but it may eat into the other infrastructure costs.

Maybe Lynn Mitchell can convert some of his welfare funds into a new NSL franchise and build a new soccer stadium too!

And Jerry Gordon's banks can maybe tap into the TIF to save their bee hinds.....
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Keep crying in your (non alcoholic) beer, then maybe Tulsa can have a lake downtown for people to visit and talk about how smug they are and smell their own farts.
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Oh let up on old FOTD, he's just bitter his drug (herb) of choice isn't legal.

Old?

Jinx will be remembered for antique row.

FOTD is getting a little tired of his %6+ ad valorem tax increases every year to support this bloated white flight school system.

Looks like this demons predictions are still holding up.

[Hawkins]

It's most definitely not a lack of traffic that's killing her business.

Yes, it is.

You guys are cracking me up.

"Well every time I'm out there its always packed." LOL

WELL DUH, because you guys are out there during the same times everyone else is. This equates to weekends, and summers. Nothing more.

Visit the Riverwalk from 10-5 on any weekday. It is a ghost town.

Because of the lack of retail anchors (which is exactly what she was trying to explain on the Channel 6 video), the Riverwalk fails to draw ANY wintertime/Christmas traffic.

All of the businesses there suffer tremendously 6-months out of the year. Just ask Gary's Grill, Cat in the Fiddle Toystore, Joojoo Bee's restaurant, Sunami's Sushi Bar, West Southwest Indian Store, Sticks Unique Furniture, the Nail Salon, X-Y Clothing, The Wild Honeysuckle...

Oh wait, those are ALL Riverwalk businesses that have shut down or relocated in the last 2 1/2 years.

The sudden knee-jerk eviction notice only makes things worse for the developer in this lose/lose situation. They need strong anchor stores to draw in year-round traffic, and now signing those tenants just got that much harder due to this bad publicity.

This makes me sad because, as a regular year-round visitor to this area, I have really grown to like this particular patch of development and would like to see more of it.

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[Danny]

Food, music and bars, that seems to be popular there,
just make it all that, no retail.
The retail at the Riverwalk is all trendy, overpriced crap.
throw in a Sonic, maybe a little convenience store, a candy store, something like that.
Look at Bricktown, they survive on the music, food and drinks, and they do just fine.

[Hawkins]

Food, music and bars, that seems to be popular there,
just make it all that, no retail.
The retail at the Riverwalk is all trendy, overpriced crap.
throw in a Sonic, maybe a little convenience store, a candy store, something like that.
Look at Bricktown, they survive on the music, food and drinks, and they do just fine.

Sunami's, Gary's Grill, Joojoo Bee's... all failed food establishments.

[waterboy]

Those are good insights Hawkins. I called on this center, and the few tenants they had, when they were first opening, for advertising space for a little newspaper I was working for. They had sunk all their money into a full color spread in Tulsa People for a grand opening. I was amazed because there were so few tenants for such an investment and no anchor tenants unless you consider a Mexican restaurant as one. Expectations were high among all the tenants. That was about 4 years ago.

The thing she mentioned that struck home was the comment about being misled by the developer. The tenants at that time had been told that the new dam would begin construction in just a few months and be finished within a year. I knew that was crazy, yet they believed. Stories from landlords are notoriously puffed up but that one had no relation to reality. I watched as each of the tenants you listed failed or moved on and I have to say, though I like the place, it is only suitable for restaurants, bars, theatre etc. Dead during the day and filled with kids at night. The opening of the River District nearby will spell that out clearly.

[OpenYourEyesTulsa]

I have never gone into any of the stores at Riverwalk.  I only go there to eat, drink, and listen to music.  Sunami closed downtown as well so I don't think you can blame the Riverwalk.  I would like to see more bars there so you can walk from bar to bar.

[Townsend]

I have never gone into any of the stores at Riverwalk.  I only go there to eat, drink, and listen to music.  Sunami closed downtown as well so I don't think you can blame the Riverwalk.  I would like to see more bars there so you can walk from bar to bar.

The owner sunk too much capital into the Riverwalk location and lost his butt.  He wasn't able to continue business in the downtown location after that.

[Hawkins]

I have never gone into any of the stores at Riverwalk.  I only go there to eat, drink, and listen to music.  Sunami closed downtown as well so I don't think you can blame the Riverwalk.  I would like to see more bars there so you can walk from bar to bar.

More bars?? I'm just rolling on the floor laughing now.

Lets see, there is (1) an outdoor bar at Los Cabos (with live music on weekends), (2) in front of Ale Haus (with live music on weekends) and (3) the "Boat Bar" in front of (4) Dirty's Bar. Then there is (5) a very nice bar where they actually know how to make mixed drinks right inside the Cigar Box.

Then there is (6) another bar inside the Ale Haus. And (7) a bar inside Los Cabos. And ( a bar inside Gina and Guiseppe's Italian. And (9) a bar inside the Melting Pot.

That makes a total of NINE indoor/outdoor bars on the Riverwalk.

AND there is a new bar opened adjacent to the Riverwalk in that new retail corner called Louie's Bar and Grill. That makes 10 all within walking distance.

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[Conan71]

More bars?? I'm just rolling on the floor laughing now.

Lets see, there is (1) an outdoor bar at Los Cabos (with live music on weekends), (2) in front of Ale Haus (with live music on weekends) and (3) the "Boat Bar" in front of (4) Dirty's Bar. Then there is (5) a very nice bar where they actually know how to make mixed drinks right inside the Cigar Box.

Then there is (6) another bar inside the Ale Haus. And (7) a bar inside Los Cabos. And ( a bar inside Gina and Guiseppe's Italian. And (9) a bar inside the Melting Pot.

That makes a total of NINE indoor/outdoor bars on the Riverwalk.

AND there is a new bar opened adjacent to the Riverwalk in that new retail corner called Louie's Bar and Grill. That makes 10 all within walking distance.

--

Only ten??  They need more bars.

[dbacks fan]

Only ten??  They need more bars.

+100

[DTowner]

Like Hawkins, I thought the important point made by this latest failed Riverwalk retailer was her allegation that the landlord made representations to her about numerous other high quality tenants that would locate in Riverwalk - none of which came to fruition.  I have spoken to several owners of other failed Riverwalk businesses who have told me of similar experiences.  Given the landlord's apparent retaliation, this is obviously a touchy subject for him.

Small businesses fail for lots of reasons, and this business may have been over priced.  But it is not hard to see how low foot traffic during week days and during cold winter months, as well as unfulfilled promises of other high end retailers locating in the development, could have contributed to her store's demise.

So far, Riverwalk appears to be a good location for restaurants/bars that are not dependant upon lunch business.  The retail side of things seem to be a bigger struggle and will probably continue to do so unless/until a sizeable national chain retail presence is established.

[rwarn17588]

Coming in late on this thread, I think it's clear that Tulsa Hills and the recession have decimated Riverwalk, and that Riverwalk will remain on life support unless the developer pulls something big out of his hat.

Why? Because Tulsa Hills has honest-to-God retail heavyweights (Lowes, Target, Best Buy) and better access for drivers. Sure, Riverwalk is relatively easy to access. But Tulsa Hills is even easier to get to via U.S. 75.

And, now, Tulsa Hills is starting to attract more restaurants. Look for the bleeding of Riverwalk to continue.

And I suspect the long-ballyhooed development proposal near the river in Jenks will sink without a trace, without an ounce of concrete being poured.

[SXSW]

Coming in late on this thread, I think it's clear that Tulsa Hills and the recession have decimated Riverwalk, and that Riverwalk will remain on life support unless the developer pulls something big out of his hat.

Why? Because Tulsa Hills has honest-to-God retail heavyweights (Lowes, Target, Best Buy) and better access for drivers. Sure, Riverwalk is relatively easy to access. But Tulsa Hills is even easier to get to via U.S. 75.

And, now, Tulsa Hills is starting to attract more restaurants. Look for the bleeding of Riverwalk to continue.

And I suspect the long-ballyhooed development proposal near the river in Jenks will sink without a trace, without an ounce of concrete being poured.

Another reason why a significant anchor is necessary for any new or existing development.  The movie theater was thought to be that for Riverwalk but its small size and location doesn't register the same impact as the midtown AMC or Tulsa Cinemark w/ IMAX would.  The restaurants do good business because you can sit outside and look at the river while eating, as most have outdoor seating areas.  But I never envisioned retail on a large scale working on the river, in Jenks or if Tulsa's 'Branson Landing' proposal ever got off the ground.

I think you can relate this to bringing retail back downtown in the same way.  Downtown has great highway access for those driving and (someday) will be the nexus of a rail transit system, in addition to the bus service already present.  Yet there is little retail downtown.  Denver, a much larger city with a much more vibrant downtown, has the same trouble getting retail downtown, why?  No anchor.  If, and it's a big if, a large department store retailer like a Nordstrom that isn't found anywhere else in the city (or state) were to open a store in downtown as part of a larger development I would bet it and the development around it would fare well because the access is good and it would be providing shoppers something they don't already have.  If Riverwalk had a major anchor like that they would be doing better, as it is they are not..

[Cats Cats Cats]

Coming in late on this thread, I think it's clear that Tulsa Hills and the recession have decimated Riverwalk, and that Riverwalk will remain on life support unless the developer pulls something big out of his hat.

Why? Because Tulsa Hills has honest-to-God retail heavyweights (Lowes, Target, Best Buy) and better access for drivers. Sure, Riverwalk is relatively easy to access. But Tulsa Hills is even easier to get to via U.S. 75.

And, now, Tulsa Hills is starting to attract more restaurants. Look for the bleeding of Riverwalk to continue.

And I suspect the long-ballyhooed development proposal near the river in Jenks will sink without a trace, without an ounce of concrete being poured.

I don't think Tulsa Hills has anything to do with the Riverwalk. 
There is no electronics store at the riverwalk
There is no book store at the riverwalk
There is no pet store at the riverwalk
There is no lower priced clothing store at the riverwalk
There is no "fast food" at the riverwalk
There is no hardware store at the riverwalk