Riverwalk Phase II

[swake]

I don't think Tulsa Hills has anything to do with the Riverwalk. 
There is no electronics store at the riverwalk
There is no book store at the riverwalk
There is no pet store at the riverwalk
There is no lower priced clothing store at the riverwalk
There is no "fast food" at the riverwalk
There is no hardware store at the riverwalk

Not to mention that Riverwalk is just about completely leased out and phase 2 is under construction now with a major retail anchor coming in. A large upscale sporting goods store. Tulsa Hills has no sporting goods store at all.

[swake]

Coming in late on this thread, I think it's clear that Tulsa Hills and the recession have decimated Riverwalk, and that Riverwalk will remain on life support unless the developer pulls something big out of his hat.

Why? Because Tulsa Hills has honest-to-God retail heavyweights (Lowes, Target, Best Buy) and better access for drivers. Sure, Riverwalk is relatively easy to access. But Tulsa Hills is even easier to get to via U.S. 75.

And, now, Tulsa Hills is starting to attract more restaurants. Look for the bleeding of Riverwalk to continue.

And I suspect the long-ballyhooed development proposal near the river in Jenks will sink without a trace, without an ounce of concrete being poured.

Tulsa Hills restaurants suck. Buffalo Wild Wings is awful, Chili's is awful, McDonalds, Arby's (not yet built) are McDonalds and Arbys. Tulsa Hills is going to then be adding Cracker Barrel and Whataburger.

That is major suckage.

It's Tulsa Hills that's half empty, not Riverwalk. And Riverwalk has actual construction going on in the phase 2 section. Tulsa Hills has a land for sale sign.

[Conan71]

I'm curious if the retailer we were talking about bothered to be open on Thurs. Fri. and Sat. nights.  It makes ZERO sense to be open at 10am on Tuesday and closed at the highest traffic times on the weekend evenings.  You make your sales when there's traffic.

[rwarn17588]

I don't think Tulsa Hills has anything to do with the Riverwalk. 
There is no electronics store at the riverwalk
There is no book store at the riverwalk
There is no pet store at the riverwalk
There is no lower priced clothing store at the riverwalk
There is no "fast food" at the riverwalk
There is no hardware store at the riverwalk

Which sort of makes my point. A development such as Riverwalk needs an anchor retail component.

People went to Riverwalk a few times because it was new and a novelty. But save for an occasional dining-out, people won't return to Riverwalk. People will continue to flock to Tulsa Hills because it has semi-useful stores and it's easier to get to.

[rwarn17588]

Tulsa Hills restaurants suck. Buffalo Wild Wings is awful, Chili's is awful, McDonalds, Arby's (not yet built) are McDonalds and Arbys. Tulsa Hills is going to then be adding Cracker Barrel and Whataburger.

That is major suckage.

It's Tulsa Hills that's half empty, not Riverwalk. And Riverwalk has actual construction going on in the phase 2 section. Tulsa Hills has a land for sale sign.

Suckage is in the eye of the beholder. But these restaurants remain high-traffic and profitable.

Land for sale, big deal. It's a recession. And Tulsa Hills continues to expand. The only expansion at Riverwalk lately is the promises.

And I guarantee you're going to have a lot more people continue to go to Tulsa Hills because of its greater utility. Trendy restaurants are fine, but they aren't going to help get a bandsaw or MP3 player.

[Conan71]

Which sort of makes my point. A development such as Riverwalk needs an anchor retail component.

People went to Riverwalk a few times because it was new and a novelty. But save for an occasional dining-out, people won't return to Riverwalk. People will continue to flock to Tulsa Hills because it has semi-useful stores and it's easier to get to.

I know a whole lot of repeats.  These are two different types of retail centers.  Tulsa Hills is a big box heaven.  RC is small retail and entertainment.  If you take a look at the way that RC was built, the original plan does not have a provision for a major retail anchor tennant with the way the individual spaces are set up.  Just because your paradigm is that Tulsa Hills is more your bag and RC isn't doesn't mean that's true for everyone.  You can't compare the two centers as if they were equals because they are not.

That's not to say that the developer of RC is infallible, Jerry Gordon is the same guy who brought Easy Rider's to 71st & Mingo.  That was a truck load of FAIL.

I'll agree on a point you made earlier, I don't see the development south of the turnpike doing anything for 5-10 years now.

[wordherder]

Sunami's, Gary's Grill, Joojoo Bee's... all failed food establishments.

Gary's Grill was bought out by Los Cabos because they were insanely popular (brought in the most revenue of any restaurant in the entire state at one point) and needed the room to expand, JooJooBee's failed because it didn't know what the hell it wanted to be (tried to merge a casual bar with more expensive, fancy food and screwed up both) and Tsunami failed because it was mismanaged (see: the closed Tsunami downtown). 

[Cats Cats Cats]

JooJoo Bee's I believe was re imagined by the same people into the beer restaurant with only like 5 beers.  I might be mistaken, however I saw the same "manager" in both restaurants.

[DTowner]

I don't think you can so easily dismiss the impact Tulsa Hills had on Riverwalk retail.  However, I think the issue is more fundamental - what makes Riverwalk attractive to dinners/drinkers/walkers is not what will make it attractive to shoppers.  I suppose a view of a gently flowing river/gravel bar is nice when I'm shopping for clothes, shoes, tools, electronics, etc., but ambiance really isn't much a factor in my decision of where to go to buy those things.  Strip malls, for all their drawbacks, offer the ease of access and convenience of a cluster of stores with nearby parking.  By its very design, Riverwalk spreads things out with less convenient parking/access.  No one "hangs out" at a strip mall, yet that is precisely much of the charm of Riverwalk.  Trouble is, people just "hanging out" don't spend a lot of money and keep the lights on at the stores.

Maybe Phase II really will have dynamic retail and the anchor store previously promised.  Even if it does, I'm not sure that will ensure retail success.  Riverwalk is a bit of a retail Island - which is not what you want if you own the retail.

[Conan71]

I don't think you can so easily dismiss the impact Tulsa Hills had on Riverwalk retail.  However, I think the issue is more fundamental - what makes Riverwalk attractive to dinners/drinkers/walkers is not what will make it attractive to shoppers.  I suppose a view of a gently flowing river/gravel bar is nice when I'm shopping for clothes, shoes, tools, electronics, etc., but ambiance really isn't much a factor in my decision of where to go to buy those things.  Strip malls, for all their drawbacks, offer the ease of access and convenience of a cluster of stores with nearby parking.  By its very design, Riverwalk spreads things out with less convenient parking/access.  No one "hangs out" at a strip mall, yet that is precisely much of the charm of Riverwalk.  Trouble is, people just "hanging out" don't spend a lot of money and keep the lights on at the stores.

Maybe Phase II really will have dynamic retail and the anchor store previously promised.  Even if it does, I'm not sure that will ensure retail success.  Riverwalk is a bit of a retail Island - which is not what you want if you own the retail.

I really don't see how Tulsa Hills would affect RC unless it's due to people spending more on electronics and shoes than dining out or kitschy gift stuff or high end home decor.  People don't go to RC to buy a flat screen TV, socks, or fence posts. 

[Hawkins]

My sources tell me that the Books-A-Million name was thrown around by Riverwalk to the tenants as well as a future retail anchor before they settled on their current location at Tulsa Hills.

IF this is true, there's one big hole punched in the Riverwalk's development plans by the Tulsa Hills shopping center.

[swake]

My sources tell me that the Books-A-Million name was thrown around by Riverwalk to the tenants as well as a future retail anchor before they settled on their current location at Tulsa Hills.

IF this is true, there's one big hole punched in the Riverwalk's development plans by the Tulsa Hills shopping center.

Before phase 2's funding fell through years ago, phase two was to have a Hampton Inn and Suites, a Barnes and Noble, an indoor water park, a Lone Star and Toby Keith's I Love This Bar and Grill.

[Hoss]

Before phase 2's funding fell through years ago, phase two was to have a Hampton Inn and Suites, a Barnes and Noble, an indoor water park, a Lone Star and Toby Keith's I Love This Bar and Grill.

Toby Keith's....

Overrated.  Kinda like the Hard Rock Cafe.  That, to borrow a phrase from Conan, is a big steaming pile of FAIL.

[swake]

Toby Keith's....

Overrated.  Kinda like the Hard Rock Cafe.  That, to borrow a phrase from Conan, is a big steaming pile of FAIL.

I've never been there, and it's supposed to be opening soon ironically IN the Hard Rock. A country bar in a Hard Rock Casino, only in Oklahoma.

Lone Star is a pretty "fail" chain too.

But Buffalo Wild Wings is the biggest fail I have seen recently. I heard all these great things about the place and we go and the place is just cheap and crappy inside and they serve you on paper plates.  The wings are kinda ok, but my wife's nachos seriously had Rico's cheese wiz poured over them instead of melted cheese. She had wanted Chicken Nachos and they forgot the chicken, so she pointed out the mistake. The server brings out a nuked baggie of chicken in a paper cup. And the Nachos were better than my son's burger, it wasn't even to McDonald's standards. The food is about like what you would get at a movie theater.

Don't even get me started on Cracker Barrel.  Or Chili's.

The restaurants at and near Riverwalk are much better. I never had really high hopes for Tulsa Hills, but when the economy went south it got a lot worse.

Rwarn, Riverwalk phase 2 was under construction as recently as three days ago. Construction did stop at The River District a couple of months ago but Riverwalk 2 is being built. And across the street from Riverwalk a new center just opened, that's where Louie's is. Across the street from that is The Village on Main, and that just started. Jenks is still building in the riverfront area.

I really don't get the lady from Azure being upset that a Gap or a Bed Bath and Beyond didn't get opened at Riverwalk. Exactly what synergy would there have been from Gap customers for a "couture" clothing store?

[DowntownNow]

What Riverwalk is missing is a master plan for supporting retailers, restaurants, bars and adding in pedestrian traffic, residential and hospitality.  To invest in significant infrastructure to support nothing but small retail and restaurants, they set themselves up to struggle...not fail, but struggle. 

People are right, you walk there between 10-5 and it is a ghost town.  Walk down there on the Thurs-Sun nights when restaurants are full and the music is going and people still are not looking to shop, they are there to have a meal and a good time.  They are already wearing the $200 jeans that Azure Coture was looking to sell.  Add to that, once they buy, if they want to stay and enjoy the scene unencumbered, they have to walk back out to their car, a good distance away somtimes and put away any purchased goods.

Cant imagine people getting out to shop there when all the doors are on the East side and none to easily enter from the parking lot of rainy, icy or blistering days of heat, especially if you just have to run in for something.

The absence of well known anchor brands in the beginning didnt help, add to that the excessive cost to recover investment and the rental paid by retail merchants, they would struggle to survive. 

Now, in opposite fashion, look at the proposed Village on Main development going to the South of Riverwalk.  Pedestrian friendly, multiple points of access to all shops, wider sidewalks, city concession to have open beverage between areas, streets through the development, planning for residential and hospitality so as to promote people presence at all times of the day and night.  Now thats a plan.