Is this the evidence that sales taxes don't work?

[TheArtist]

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

quote:Originally posted by Townsend

It's a shame.

At least we're still "comfortably cosmopolitan".

or are we "I am something or other".

If the river vote fails, Tulsa is stuck in glue for another 10 years.

If the Oct. 9 river vote fails, this will not go away.  They will learn something from it, seek more input, provide more details and we will get it.  This was a suicide mission at best by calling for a vote in a 60 to 90 day time frame.

I'm sick and tired of the loose implication from the "yes" campaign that if we don't act now it will never happen.  That's pure B.S.

I think the big money donors in this are the ones that pushed it to such an early vote. Next spring would have been a better time. More could have been done plan wise etc. It seems that Mr Kaiser needs to get this sum of money dedicated to something this year or it will have to go to some other cause. But I am sure something could have been worked out. I would hope that if this tax doesnt pass that the donors go ahead and do their part.

If they dont the most honorable, and publicity wise, "wise" thing to do would be to pay the citizens back the cost of doing the vote. That would make it much easier to do another vote next year and soften a lot of rancor.


As for the topic at hand. I have always felt Tulsa never sold itself like it should. What I have seen has just never worked. Its like they just dont get it. They dont know how to sell what we have. This also leads to us not valuing, growing, and improving our assets. Things like our art-deco are half heartedly mentioned while we continue to lose many of them to decay and tear downs. Rarely are obvious opportunities availed to enhance and grow the deco heritage. Doesnt have to be true art-deco can definitley be a modern version of it to be fresh, contemporary, and a sign of our times yet build on and grow an asset. Enhance and further create a unique identity. New city construction, parking garages, street lights, stop lights, city signage, rest stops, etc.  New pedestrian bridge, a flashy, sleek, contemmporary rendition of art-deco? Tulsa welcome signs at the major entrances to the city. New overpasses on the highways have a hint of it, black deco trolleys and buses, the city logo, website, advertising and paperwork all have a contemporary or "retro deco" look, etc, etc. Other cities and areas "theme" the dickens out of themselves lol. You could play the deco theme in many directions. It can project an image that is classic and contemporary, sleek, sophisticated, strong, create a "METROPOLIS" feel, hearken back to an old fashioned romantic era yet be fun and trendy... all kinds of things.

[Conan71]

Even if this block of Kaiser's money needs to be allocated this year, I think he knows where to find more. []

[Double A]

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

quote:Originally posted by Townsend

It's a shame.

At least we're still "comfortably cosmopolitan".

or are we "I am something or other".

If the river vote fails, Tulsa is stuck in glue for another 10 years.

If the Oct. 9 river vote fails, this will not go away.  They will learn something from it, seek more input, provide more details and we will get it.  This was a suicide mission at best by calling for a vote in a 60 to 90 day time frame.

I'm sick and tired of the loose implication from the "yes" campaign that if we don't act now it will never happen.  That's pure B.S.

True dat. Don't believe the hype.

[Double A]

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

Even if this block of Kaiser's money needs to be allocated this year, I think he knows where to find more. []

Yeah, wassup with that? Kinda reminds me of that Richard Pryor flick Brewster's millions. Don't count on the five million pledged by the Creeks to ever materialize, BTW.

[Friendly Bear]

Off-topic

[swake]

Off-topic

[Friendly Bear]

Off-topic

[swake]

Off-topic

[Friendly Bear]

quote:Originally posted by Double A

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

Even if this block of Kaiser's money needs to be allocated this year, I think he knows where to find more. []

Yeah, wassup with that? Kinda reminds me of that Richard Pryor flick Brewster's millions. Don't count on the five million pledged by the Creeks to ever materialize, BTW.

Hmmmmmh, the Creek Nation possibly reneging on their $5M pledge brings to mind that 1960's Favorite by the rock group, 1910 Fruitgum Company:

INDIAN GIVER.

Indian giver, Indian giver, you took back the love you gave to me.

Indian giver, Indian giver, you took back the love you gave to me.

A Bubble-Gum Rock favorite.

[Rico]

Hey Bear they must have been listening to you regarding the "Tax" money.......
They say evrything is OK.... The money for the "Low Water Damns" is safely in a "lock box" and will only be spent if we approve 1."The River Tax", 2.Matching Funds show up... 3.Neither happens...

Vision 2025 money being spent as intended, committee chairman says


By World Staff
9/20/2007  12:46 PM

The chairman of the Vision 2025 Sales Tax Overview Committee on Thursday held a press conference to clear up what he called misconceptions about how the sales tax revenues have been spent.

"I think that the taxpayers can be assured that their money is being used properly and for the purposes it was intended," said Doug Collins.

Collins said the $5.6 million in Vision 2025 allocated for construction of low-water dams along the Arkansas River was always intended as seed money that would be matched by federal funds.

The federal funds never reached Tulsa because of natural disasters such as Hurricane Katrina, Collins said.

"Therefore, we have not done much in the way of spending any of the Vision 2025 dollars for river projects," he said.

Collins added that about $5.3 million of the funds allocated for the dams remains.

He said the funds will not be spent on dam construction unless federal matching funds become available or voters approve the the proposed $282 million Arkansas River development proposal.

That vote is Oct. 9.

If neither happens, Collins said, the Vision 2025 funds will be used for other projects.

[Friendly Bear]

quote:Originally posted by Rico

Hey Bear they must have been listening to you regarding the "Tax" money.......
They say evrything is OK.... The money for the "Low Water Damns" is safely in a "lock box" and will only be spent if we approve 1."The River Tax", 2.Matching Funds show up... 3.Neither happens...

Vision 2025 money being spent as intended, committee chairman says


By World Staff
9/20/2007  12:46 PM

The chairman of the Vision 2025 Sales Tax Overview Committee on Thursday held a press conference to clear up what he called misconceptions about how the sales tax revenues have been spent.

"I think that the taxpayers can be assured that their money is being used properly and for the purposes it was intended," said Doug Collins.

Collins said the $5.6 million in Vision 2025 allocated for construction of low-water dams along the Arkansas River was always intended as seed money that would be matched by federal funds.

The federal funds never reached Tulsa because of natural disasters such as Hurricane Katrina, Collins said.

"Therefore, we have not done much in the way of spending any of the Vision 2025 dollars for river projects," he said.

Collins added that about $5.3 million of the funds allocated for the dams remains.

He said the funds will not be spent on dam construction unless federal matching funds become available or voters approve the the proposed $282 million Arkansas River development proposal.

That vote is Oct. 9.

If neither happens, Collins said, the Vision 2025 funds will be used for other projects.

Uh, wasn't the new Vision 2025 Tax reported by the Tulsa Co. Election Board in Sept. 2003 as Approved?

Uh, wasn't Hurricane Katrina in August 2005, TWO years later?

Oh, you say the Channels intervened in 2006, when someone greedy Someones got tired of waiting for their Trust Fund payment, and decided to grab $660 million in new taxes?

In 2007, we now have the Kaiser River Tax proposal, for Voila, TWO NEW LOW WATER DAMS?

But, where are the Low Water Dams promised in 2003???

Waiting........

Waiting........

Waiting........

[swake]

quote:Originally posted by Friendly Bear

quote:Originally posted by Double A

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

Even if this block of Kaiser's money needs to be allocated this year, I think he knows where to find more. []

Yeah, wassup with that? Kinda reminds me of that Richard Pryor flick Brewster's millions. Don't count on the five million pledged by the Creeks to ever materialize, BTW.

Hmmmmmh, the Creek Nation possibly reneging on their $5M pledge brings to mind that 1960's Favorite by the rock group, 1910 Fruitgum Company:

INDIAN GIVER.

Indian giver, Indian giver, you took back the love you gave to me.

Indian giver, Indian giver, you took back the love you gave to me.

A Bubble-Gum Rock favorite.

Still racist.

[Conan71]

quote:Originally posted by Rico

Hey Bear they must have been listening to you regarding the "Tax" money.......
They say evrything is OK.... The money for the "Low Water Damns" is safely in a "lock box" and will only be spent if we approve 1."The River Tax", 2.Matching Funds show up... 3.Neither happens...

Vision 2025 money being spent as intended, committee chairman says


By World Staff
9/20/2007  12:46 PM

The chairman of the Vision 2025 Sales Tax Overview Committee on Thursday held a press conference to clear up what he called misconceptions about how the sales tax revenues have been spent.

"I think that the taxpayers can be assured that their money is being used properly and for the purposes it was intended," said Doug Collins.

Collins said the $5.6 million in Vision 2025 allocated for construction of low-water dams along the Arkansas River was always intended as seed money that would be matched by federal funds.

The federal funds never reached Tulsa because of natural disasters such as Hurricane Katrina, Collins said.

"Therefore, we have not done much in the way of spending any of the Vision 2025 dollars for river projects," he said.

Collins added that about $5.3 million of the funds allocated for the dams remains.

He said the funds will not be spent on dam construction unless federal matching funds become available or voters approve the the proposed $282 million Arkansas River development proposal.

That vote is Oct. 9.

If neither happens, Collins said, the Vision 2025 funds will be used for other projects.

I think between Eagleton & Bates being on the offensive lately on this, it's pretty timely for them to make a formal "rebuttal".  

V-2025 keeps hiding behind "press releases" from the time not the official proposition nor the official ballot to explain that we all knew this.

Somehow the fact that dams weren't included without matching funds has escaped a lot of people.  Citing newspaper articles from the time which explain this is shoddy work.  This should have been clearly spelled out in the contract between the voter and the taxing authority- the ballot. Period.

[Rico]

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

quote:Originally posted by Rico

Hey Bear they must have been listening to you regarding the "Tax" money.......
They say evrything is OK.... The money for the "Low Water Damns" is safely in a "lock box" and will only be spent if we approve 1."The River Tax", 2.Matching Funds show up... 3.Neither happens...

Vision 2025 money being spent as intended, committee chairman says


By World Staff
9/20/2007  12:46 PM

The chairman of the Vision 2025 Sales Tax Overview Committee on Thursday held a press conference to clear up what he called misconceptions about how the sales tax revenues have been spent.

"I think that the taxpayers can be assured that their money is being used properly and for the purposes it was intended," said Doug Collins.

Collins said the $5.6 million in Vision 2025 allocated for construction of low-water dams along the Arkansas River was always intended as seed money that would be matched by federal funds.

The federal funds never reached Tulsa because of natural disasters such as Hurricane Katrina, Collins said.

"Therefore, we have not done much in the way of spending any of the Vision 2025 dollars for river projects," he said.

Collins added that about $5.3 million of the funds allocated for the dams remains.

He said the funds will not be spent on dam construction unless federal matching funds become available or voters approve the the proposed $282 million Arkansas River development proposal.

That vote is Oct. 9.

If neither happens, Collins said, the Vision 2025 funds will be used for other projects.

I think between Eagleton & Bates being on the offensive lately on this, it's pretty timely for them to make a formal "rebuttal".  

V-2025 keeps hiding behind "press releases" from the time not the official proposition nor the official ballot to explain that we all knew this.

Somehow the fact that dams weren't included without matching funds has escaped a lot of people.  Citing newspaper articles from the time which explain this is shoddy work.  This should have been clearly spelled out in the contract between the voter and the taxing authority- the ballot. Period.

You just hit the nail on the head.....

My opposition to the "River Tax" is that there is too much "it is in the plan..." and not enough spelling it out.. From what I gather they didn't even do this at the presentation last night...

Just the same old "Kaiser is going to give us this much money if we pass this bill for this much money... we can't pass this opportunity by.

phoooey
[}:)]

[Friendly Bear]

quote:Originally posted by Rico

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

quote:Originally posted by Rico

Hey Bear they must have been listening to you regarding the "Tax" money.......
They say evrything is OK.... The money for the "Low Water Damns" is safely in a "lock box" and will only be spent if we approve 1."The River Tax", 2.Matching Funds show up... 3.Neither happens...

Vision 2025 money being spent as intended, committee chairman says


By World Staff
9/20/2007  12:46 PM

The chairman of the Vision 2025 Sales Tax Overview Committee on Thursday held a press conference to clear up what he called misconceptions about how the sales tax revenues have been spent.

"I think that the taxpayers can be assured that their money is being used properly and for the purposes it was intended," said Doug Collins.

Collins said the $5.6 million in Vision 2025 allocated for construction of low-water dams along the Arkansas River was always intended as seed money that would be matched by federal funds.

The federal funds never reached Tulsa because of natural disasters such as Hurricane Katrina, Collins said.

"Therefore, we have not done much in the way of spending any of the Vision 2025 dollars for river projects," he said.

Collins added that about $5.3 million of the funds allocated for the dams remains.

He said the funds will not be spent on dam construction unless federal matching funds become available or voters approve the the proposed $282 million Arkansas River development proposal.

That vote is Oct. 9.

If neither happens, Collins said, the Vision 2025 funds will be used for other projects.

I think between Eagleton & Bates being on the offensive lately on this, it's pretty timely for them to make a formal "rebuttal".  

V-2025 keeps hiding behind "press releases" from the time not the official proposition nor the official ballot to explain that we all knew this.

Somehow the fact that dams weren't included without matching funds has escaped a lot of people.  Citing newspaper articles from the time which explain this is shoddy work.  This should have been clearly spelled out in the contract between the voter and the taxing authority- the ballot. Period.

You just hit the nail on the head.....

My opposition to the "River Tax" is that there is too much "it is in the plan..." and not enough spelling it out.. From what I gather they didn't even do this at the presentation last night...

Just the same old "Kaiser is going to give us this much money if we pass this bill for this much money... we can't pass this opportunity by.

phoooey
[}:)]

The stewardship of our $100,000,000's of hard-earned tax money in the hands of Doug Collins is now I would think, suspect.

He's shilling for the local power establishment, who obviously picked him because he was their lackey.  Yassuh, Boss.

Is Collins any relation to the thuggish former Tulsa County Commissioner, Dilbert Collins?