Why are Church Leaders silent on the River Tax?

[Friendly Bear]

Local Church leaders by their position are granted moral authority over their congregations.

How can Church Leaders remain abjectly silent when they know that a new sales tax to fund the Kaiser River Tax will reduce the disposable income of the Tulsa County's poorest and neediest, increasing the burden on the poor?

Are they merely hypocrites, with their clay feet planted firmly in the Arkansas River sandpiles??

Do they deserve to retain their mantle of Moral Authority because of their contemptible silence?

They should speak out.

Let them sermonize how it can be moral to take ever more disposable income from our poorest and neediest to line the pockets of immensely powerful local construction companies, bond underwriters, selected attorneys and architects, and connected cronies?

When will they speak out?

We are listening.....

Waiting..........

Waiting..........

Waiting..........

[]

[rwarn17588]

Maybe it's because the churches are more concerned about frivolous things.

Like saving souls.

[}:)]

[RecycleMichael]

What a stupid topic!

You expect advice from the pulpit on commercial development or tax issues?

What was the stance of your church on funding EMSA or a south Tulsa toll bridge? Does you God speak about sales tax holidays or TIF districts?

Oh, and the leaders of my church do not have "moral authority" over me. I look to them for positive examples and interpretation of moral values, not authority over me.

[Friendly Bear]

quote:Originally posted by rwarn17588

Maybe it's because the churches are more concerned about frivolous things.

Like saving souls.

[}:)]

They definitely have their work cut out for them, saving lost souls in the Banana Republic of Tulsa.

Seem to recall a saying attributed to Jesus, paraphasing:  

A camel may more easily pass through the eye of a needle, than a rich man pass through the gates of heaven.

[Friendly Bear]

quote:Originally posted by recyclemichael

What a stupid topic!

You expect advice from the pulpit on commercial development or tax issues?

What was the stance of your church on funding EMSA or a south Tulsa toll bridge? Does you God speak about sales tax holidays or TIF districts?

Oh, and the leaders of my church do not have "moral authority" over me. I look to them for positive examples and interpretation of moral values, not authority over me.

Well, if it's so stupid, why'd you bother to reply?  Duh.

And, there's that ANGER again RecycleM.  

E-A-S-Y.

Church leaders certainly do speak with Moral Authority over their congregations, and most likely speaking in general on religion and the meaning of morality which is integral to all major religions.  

Teaching how to leading a morale (pious)life is in their job description.

Ministers are ordained into their religion, after years of study, and after passing various tests to do so.

And, then they are selected by their Congregation as their Religious Leader.

They certainly can and should opine on the moral implications of a new regressive sales tax that will literally reduce the disposable income of Tulsa County's poorest and neediest citizens.

They certainly do not have to be an expert on TIF's or the INCOG River Master Plan to so opine.

They are experts on the teaching of Morality......

Or are they?

And what they do say, or do NOT say when an IMMORAL taking of the means of sustenance from Tulsa County's poorest and neediest citizens speaks volumes about hypocrisy.

There could well be a sermon on it this weekend.

Still listening...........

Waiting...................

Waiting...................

Waiting...................

[]

[RecycleMichael]

I don't understand why you think I am angry.

Disdain, snarkiness, challenging...yes.
Anger...no.

There are just a few people that I really argue with...four different posters, a couple of ex-wifes/girlfriends, and a neighbor who keeps a collection of dishwashers in his backyard.

None of them really make me angry.

I just don't understand your need for religious direction on this issue. Do you go the the "Our Lady of the Holy Tax Shelter"?  Maybe you should have prayer meetings based on gasoline tax initiatives in Congress. I know, let's charge a small part of a penny tax on all coins in the offertory basket to fund public political campaigns.

[waterboy]

quote:Originally posted by Friendly Bear

quote:Originally posted by recyclemichael

What a stupid topic!

You expect advice from the pulpit on commercial development or tax issues?

What was the stance of your church on funding EMSA or a south Tulsa toll bridge? Does you God speak about sales tax holidays or TIF districts?

Oh, and the leaders of my church do not have "moral authority" over me. I look to them for positive examples and interpretation of moral values, not authority over me.

Well, if it's so stupid, why'd you bother to reply?  Duh.

And, there's that ANGER again RecycleM.  

E-A-S-Y.

Church leaders certainly do speak with Moral Authority over their congregations, and most likely speaking in general on religion and the meaning of morality which is integral to all major religions.  

Teaching how to leading a morale (pious)life is in their job description.

Ministers are ordained into their religion, after years of study, and after passing various tests to do so.

And, then they are selected by their Congregation as their Religious Leader.

They certainly can and should opine on the moral implications of a new regressive sales tax that will literally reduce the disposable income of Tulsa County's poorest and neediest citizens.

They certainly do not have to be an expert on TIF's or the INCOG River Master Plan to so opine.

They are experts on the teaching of Morality......

Or are they?

And what they do say, or do NOT say when an IMMORAL taking of the means of sustenance from Tulsa County's poorest and neediest citizens speaks volumes about hypocrisy.

There could well be a sermon on it this weekend.

Still listening...........

Waiting...................

Waiting...................

Waiting...................

[]

So we're screwed either way. If we respond then it validates you and your asinine assertions. If we don't then your statements pass as unassailable fact which they never are. I think your just lonely and crave the attention with such weak arguments as churches responding to tax issues. Wait a minute...didn't Jesus throw the tax collectors out? YOU want them back in arguing for equal time.

[swake]

quote:Originally posted by waterboy

quote:Originally posted by Friendly Bear

quote:Originally posted by recyclemichael

What a stupid topic!

You expect advice from the pulpit on commercial development or tax issues?

What was the stance of your church on funding EMSA or a south Tulsa toll bridge? Does you God speak about sales tax holidays or TIF districts?

Oh, and the leaders of my church do not have "moral authority" over me. I look to them for positive examples and interpretation of moral values, not authority over me.

Well, if it's so stupid, why'd you bother to reply?  Duh.

And, there's that ANGER again RecycleM.  

E-A-S-Y.

Church leaders certainly do speak with Moral Authority over their congregations, and most likely speaking in general on religion and the meaning of morality which is integral to all major religions.  

Teaching how to leading a morale (pious)life is in their job description.

Ministers are ordained into their religion, after years of study, and after passing various tests to do so.

And, then they are selected by their Congregation as their Religious Leader.

They certainly can and should opine on the moral implications of a new regressive sales tax that will literally reduce the disposable income of Tulsa County's poorest and neediest citizens.

They certainly do not have to be an expert on TIF's or the INCOG River Master Plan to so opine.

They are experts on the teaching of Morality......

Or are they?

And what they do say, or do NOT say when an IMMORAL taking of the means of sustenance from Tulsa County's poorest and neediest citizens speaks volumes about hypocrisy.

There could well be a sermon on it this weekend.

Still listening...........

Waiting...................

Waiting...................

Waiting...................

[]

So we're screwed either way. If we respond then it validates you and your asinine assertions. If we don't then your statements pass as unassailable fact which they never are. I think your just lonely and crave the attention with such weak arguments as churches responding to tax issues. Wait a minute...didn't Jesus throw the tax collectors out? YOU want them back in arguing for equal time.

Jesus hates Bears

[Friendly Bear]

quote:Originally posted by waterboy

quote:Originally posted by Friendly Bear

quote:Originally posted by recyclemichael

What a stupid topic!

You expect advice from the pulpit on commercial development or tax issues?

What was the stance of your church on funding EMSA or a south Tulsa toll bridge? Does you God speak about sales tax holidays or TIF districts?

Oh, and the leaders of my church do not have "moral authority" over me. I look to them for positive examples and interpretation of moral values, not authority over me.

Well, if it's so stupid, why'd you bother to reply?  Duh.

And, there's that ANGER again RecycleM.  

E-A-S-Y.

Church leaders certainly do speak with Moral Authority over their congregations, and most likely speaking in general on religion and the meaning of morality which is integral to all major religions.  

Teaching how to leading a morale (pious)life is in their job description.

Ministers are ordained into their religion, after years of study, and after passing various tests to do so.

And, then they are selected by their Congregation as their Religious Leader.

They certainly can and should opine on the moral implications of a new regressive sales tax that will literally reduce the disposable income of Tulsa County's poorest and neediest citizens.

They certainly do not have to be an expert on TIF's or the INCOG River Master Plan to so opine.

They are experts on the teaching of Morality......

Or are they?

And what they do say, or do NOT say when an IMMORAL taking of the means of sustenance from Tulsa County's poorest and neediest citizens speaks volumes about hypocrisy.

There could well be a sermon on it this weekend.

Still listening...........

Waiting...................

Waiting...................

Waiting...................

[]

So we're screwed either way. If we respond then it validates you and your asinine assertions. If we don't then your statements pass as unassailable fact which they never are. I think your just lonely and crave the attention with such weak arguments as churches responding to tax issues. Wait a minute...didn't Jesus throw the tax collectors out? YOU want them back in arguing for equal time.

Actually, I'm waiting for Richard Roberts, Billy Joe Daugherty, Dr. Mouzon Biggs, Deron Spoo, or any of the host of prominent and respected local religious leaders to SPEAK OUT as to how taking more sales tax money from the pockets of struggling poor people CAN be a moral act.
 
Waiting.............
Waiting..........
Waiting.......

FYI, Jesus threw the MONEY CHANGERS from the Temple, not the Roman Tax Collectors.  Changing common Roman coins for less common Jewish coins, for offerings IN the Temple, was their religious practice.  For a fee.  

Maybe Mr. Kaiser's family got their banking start there outside the Temple?

Saul was the Tax Collector for the Romans (River Tax Collector?), who had the religious epiphany on the Road to Damascus, and became Paul.

Thus Saith the Friendly Bear.

[Friendly Bear]

quote:Originally posted by swake

quote:Originally posted by waterboy

quote:Originally posted by Friendly Bear

quote:Originally posted by recyclemichael

What a stupid topic!

You expect advice from the pulpit on commercial development or tax issues?

What was the stance of your church on funding EMSA or a south Tulsa toll bridge? Does you God speak about sales tax holidays or TIF districts?

Oh, and the leaders of my church do not have "moral authority" over me. I look to them for positive examples and interpretation of moral values, not authority over me.

Well, if it's so stupid, why'd you bother to reply?  Duh.

And, there's that ANGER again RecycleM.  

E-A-S-Y.

Church leaders certainly do speak with Moral Authority over their congregations, and most likely speaking in general on religion and the meaning of morality which is integral to all major religions.  

Teaching how to leading a morale (pious)life is in their job description.

Ministers are ordained into their religion, after years of study, and after passing various tests to do so.

And, then they are selected by their Congregation as their Religious Leader.

They certainly can and should opine on the moral implications of a new regressive sales tax that will literally reduce the disposable income of Tulsa County's poorest and neediest citizens.

They certainly do not have to be an expert on TIF's or the INCOG River Master Plan to so opine.

They are experts on the teaching of Morality......

Or are they?

And what they do say, or do NOT say when an IMMORAL taking of the means of sustenance from Tulsa County's poorest and neediest citizens speaks volumes about hypocrisy.

There could well be a sermon on it this weekend.

Still listening...........

Waiting...................

Waiting...................

Waiting...................

[]

So we're screwed either way. If we respond then it validates you and your asinine assertions. If we don't then your statements pass as unassailable fact which they never are. I think your just lonely and crave the attention with such weak arguments as churches responding to tax issues. Wait a minute...didn't Jesus throw the tax collectors out? YOU want them back in arguing for equal time.

Jesus hates Bears

Jesus is Love.

Swake is Love of: Taxes.

Friendly Bear Loves Tulsa.

[]

[shadows]

I thought that Luke writing in the Acts describes Paul as a maker of tents.  

I always thought that Matthew was a Roman tax collector.

That at the age of 12 Jesus entered the temple to stop the exchange of the coins from the Jewish coins to Roman coins because Rome was in control of the Jewish nation and the coins were weak like our dollar..

Course I am just as confused as to where all the local tax money is spent and think that a 12 year old could go through city hall and straiten it out.  

[Townsend]

A buddy of mine took a course online and he's a licensed minister.  I can ask him for you.  He's pretty smart.

[Friendly Bear]

quote:Originally posted by shadows

I thought that Luke writing in the Acts describes Paul as a maker of tents.  

I always thought that Matthew was a Roman tax collector.

That at the age of 12 Jesus entered the temple to stop the exchange of the coins from the Jewish coins to Roman coins because Rome was in control of the Jewish nation and the coins were weak like our dollar..

Course I am just as confused as to where all the local tax money is spent and think that a 12 year old could go through city hall and straiten it out.  

Correction noted.

Paul the Apostle was a maker of tents.

Matthew the Disciple was the Roman Tax Collector.

However, the observant Jews entering their Temple did not want to use the Roman coins bearing as they did Pagan images.

So, they exchanged their Roman Coins outside the Temple for Jewish coinage.

Hence, the Moneychangers outside the Temple, charging a so reasonable fee in foreign exchange.

Is that where the Kaiser Family banking fortune began - as Moneychangers??  

Billions and Billions.......

[Rico]

Pssssst.... Bear, a church is a non profit organization...

Exempt from "tax"...


Bear.... you could start the "Church of the Friendly Bear"... Think about it.

No More Taxes!
[}:)]

[Friendly Bear]

quote:Originally posted by Rico

Pssssst.... Bear, a church is a non profit organization...

Exempt from "tax"...


Bear.... you could start the "Church of the Friendly Bear"... Think about it.

No More Taxes!
[}:)]

There certainly would be some definite tax advantages to founding a tax-exempt Church.  

Mr. Ballard and his Church of Scientoloyg are prominently recalled.

Actually, I'm going to start a 501(c)(3)Tax Exempt foundation.  

The name will be:  

The Tulsa Tax Me More Club

I will solicit donations from all residents of Tulsa County who believe their taxes are TOO LOW.

I'm sure the money will just flood in from RecycleMichael, Waterboy, Sgrizzle, Average Joe, Chicken Little, Swake, Townsend, and a host of other TulsaNow MetroEchoChamberPot Kool-Aid drinkers.

Probably Bob & Roxanne Lorton, the Rooneys, the Flints, Schusterman, the Warrens, the LaFortunates, and Chester the Jester Cadieux will probably also want to contribute heavily.

And the George Kaiser Foundation, of course.

They don't seem to think we're taxed enough...

We'll make hundreds of dollars.

[}:)]