Police misconduct 2

[cannon_fodder]

This is an old story, but it keeps getting better:

A teen got a ticket for running a red light or some such nonsense.  He thought the ticket was BS so he challenged it.  At the trial the judge believed the cop over him... so he installed a camera in his car so it would not happen again.

Later, he went out with friends and left his cell phone.  His friend agreed to meet him halfway in a commuter lot, so he pulled into the commuter lot and waited for his friend.  A cop approach because it was unusual to see a car in a commuter lot at that time of night - then it gets ugly.  He asks them what the problem is and says "why can't I park in a commuter lot?"  To which the cop replies "I'll come up with 9 &^%^ing reasons to arrest your donkey... whatever I say thats what.  Want to try me boy?... come on BOY give me some more love boy.  Wanna have a bad night boy?  Answer me or I'll lock you up for resisting arrest boy.  Want me to show you how the F&^%ing law works boy?"

After he is told it is being recorded he threatens to impound the car and tear the tapes apart.  When he is told that the tape is not in the car by transmitted he suddenly has an awakening and calms down and acts more like you would expect him to.
http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/19/1961.asp  (video and transcript)

He got pulled over at a DUI road block and recorded that too - same basic thing but handled better by the cops.  They asked him "where are you going" and he replied "I do not want to talk about my personal life with you" to which he was detained.  His car illegally searched and covertly threatened with "cooperate or we'll find a reason to arrest you."  He told them sooner that it was being recorded and it was smooth from there on. http://stlouismo.com/blogs/saint-louis-missouri-news/archive/2007/09/13/brett-darrow-police-roadblock-harassment-caught-on-tape.aspx

Now the cops are staking out his house and overtly threatening him on message boards.  One went so far as to post his name and address and encouragement to "get that little &*^%&^."   The FOP have not seen the need to delete that post until after it was run in a newspaper.  When he pulled up to the cop that was staking his house to ask what was going on it drove away, he followed, so they turned and turned and finally flipped a U in the middle of the road to avoid him.
http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/19/1988.asp
- - - -

The kid is clearly a smart donkey and plays the cops like a fiddle.  However, at all times he was COMPLETELY within his rights.  He merely posed a question, the officer responded correctly by explaining that they had problems in these lots, but then upon another inquiry the cop freaked out and showed his true colors (as the teenager remains composed).  In all instances I'm afraid the St. Louis police have exhibited EXACTLY why many people do not respect the police anymore.  Its sad when a teenager can outsmart the police in such a petty way to repeatedly make them show their true colors - they should be above this crap.

Hey, I know its a hard job.  I also know that many who decide to take it do so to obtain an authority position over others.  I believe that goes to their heads and leads to widespread, even pandemic abuse.  

Police should be an example of what we should do, not a butt of jokes about what we should not do.  In Tulsa, Police are among the most blatant violators of traffic laws (ask the one that blew by me going 65 on Yale this morning with no lights on).  One has to wonder, if they don't bother to obey the little laws in daylight what do they do when no one is looking?  

I am very respectful of the police because I know they do an important job AND because I know that if I am not they can easily do anything they want to me (not that they will, but they certainly can).  But most people that watch those videos can relate in some way to their conduct, and that's sad.  When a citizen choses to exercise his rights (top question his detainment) he should not be punished for it.  I get frustrated in my job when someone maneuvers to make it difficult, but I do not punish them nor threaten them for it.  

Anyway, everyday police blow by me (15+ over), run red lights, swerve lanes, and make turns without blinkers/not into the near lane.  All things that would get me pulled over, searched, and fined.  Again, police - I know you have a hard job and are used to dealing with scum, but don't treat all of us like we are scum and try to refrain the same activities you spend all day fining citizens for performing.

/rant from getting tired of seeing cops ignore the law while I get fined for the same activity.  Someone try to citizens arrest one sometime, lets see how that goes over.

[tim huntzinger]

Here is a link to the video of the 'stalking' incident.

[rwarn17588]

Good stuff.

Who watches the Watchmen?

[Friendly Bear]

quote:Originally posted by tim huntzinger

Here is a link to the video of the 'stalking' incident.

The cell phone camera is the bane of police misconduct.  They are so small, so portable, and there are so MANY of them, that it is bringing an impartial "witness" to any encounter with the police.

MH2010 and I had a multi-entry "discussion" on this topic some time back.

Basically, there have been so many instances of these types of incidents captured by citizens nationwide, in bad encounters with out-of-control policemen, that the police union now wants all police cars equipped with CELL PHONE JAMMERS.

So that there is no EVIDENCE of misconduct. In order to prevent evidence of such misconduct from being transmitted to another party.

They know they can already destroy any physical device or media recording the incident found in the car, once they've impounded it on some pretext of the citizen "impeding" an investigation.

The TRANSMISSION is what cooks their goose when police misconduct is involved.

I presume this 20 year veteran policeman was fired for this misconduct.  

Was he?

Wonder how many other citizens who had bad experiences with this sergeant have since come forward?

Was he likewise charged with the crime of Oppression in Office?

It's a criminal offense on the books.  RARELY used.  But he appears guilty of it.  Threating to fabricate criminal charges would appear to qualify him for being charged criminally.

[RecycleMichael]

I don't want to generalize all police officials based on what an officer in another state does. I am sure there are some officers with improper attitudes, but I am certain that most of the Tulsa Police are respectful of the citizen and their rights.

Now the Glenpool police...that is a different matter.

[Friendly Bear]

quote:Originally posted by recyclemichael

I don't want to generalize all police officials based on what an officer in another state does. I am sure there are some officers with improper attitudes, but I am certain that most of the Tulsa Police are respectful of the citizen and their rights.

Now the Glenpool police...that is a different matter.

It's hardly isolated to one police jurisdiction.

After TPD Officer Gus Spanoff was shot and killed in the line of duty some years ago, the citizens of Tulsa donated money for video-camcorders to be installed in all police cars.

Curiously, they didn't last long.......

All field police officers should have a streaming video camera attached to their forehead for our protection.

And theirs, too.

[NellieBly]

I was driving home last night, turning left from Harvard on to 15th street. Green light, two cars approaching but I had plenty of room to turn. I quickly realized one of the cars coming at me was doing so at a very high rate of speed. It was a cop, no lights, no sirens and literally going about 70 down Harvard. At night. Really, only by my quick action did I avoid being t-boned by this idiot.

[Friendly Bear]

quote:Originally posted by NellieBly

I was driving home last night, turning left from Harvard on to 15th street. Green light, two cars approaching but I had plenty of room to turn. I quickly realized one of the cars coming at me was doing so at a very high rate of speed. It was a cop, no lights, no sirens and literally going about 70 down Harvard. At night. Really, only by my quick action did I avoid being t-boned by this idiot.

It's okay.  He was just running late for his moonlighting job.

[]

[Wilbur]

quote:Originally posted by Friendly Bear

quote:Originally posted by recyclemichael

I don't want to generalize all police officials based on what an officer in another state does. I am sure there are some officers with improper attitudes, but I am certain that most of the Tulsa Police are respectful of the citizen and their rights.

Now the Glenpool police...that is a different matter.

It's hardly isolated to one police jurisdiction.

After TPD Officer Gus Spanoff was shot and killed in the line of duty some years ago, the citizens of Tulsa donated money for video-camcorders to be installed in all police cars.

Curiously, they didn't last long.......

All field police officers should have a streaming video camera attached to their forehead for our protection.

And theirs, too.

$400,000 was donated and the 'best of the time' systems were purchased.  But, at the time, it was relatively new technology, and the systems started breaking down almost immediately.  You can't buy an off-the-shelf camcorder and put it in a police car and expect it to last long.  Anything technology wise has to be ruggidized before installation, which makes it very expensive.

Most officers would love to have some sort of camera system in their cars, but, as usual, expense is the problem.  Most systems (worth anything) now are running around $5K-$8K each.  So, come up with $3,000,000 and you've got a deal.

Wait, I know.  How about another tax!

[Friendly Bear]

quote:Originally posted by Wilbur

quote:Originally posted by Friendly Bear

quote:Originally posted by recyclemichael

I don't want to generalize all police officials based on what an officer in another state does. I am sure there are some officers with improper attitudes, but I am certain that most of the Tulsa Police are respectful of the citizen and their rights.

Now the Glenpool police...that is a different matter.

It's hardly isolated to one police jurisdiction.

After TPD Officer Gus Spanoff was shot and killed in the line of duty some years ago, the citizens of Tulsa donated money for video-camcorders to be installed in all police cars.

Curiously, they didn't last long.......

All field police officers should have a streaming video camera attached to their forehead for our protection.

And theirs, too.

$400,000 was donated and the 'best of the time' systems were purchased.  But, at the time, it was relatively new technology, and the systems started breaking down almost immediately.  You can't buy an off-the-shelf camcorder and put it in a police car and expect it to last long.  Anything technology wise has to be ruggidized before installation, which makes it very expensive.

Most officers would love to have some sort of camera system in their cars, but, as usual, expense is the problem.  Most systems (worth anything) now are running around $5K-$8K each.  So, come up with $3,000,000 and you've got a deal.

Wait, I know.  How about another tax!

As the policeman weighs the pros and cons of a video camera in their patrol vehicle, their major negative is that is provides an impartial witness to police misconduct.

They know from experience, if there is only the policeman's testimony, and a civilian allegeding police misconduct, the judge will side with the police 999 out of 1,000 times.

So, they generally would prefer to not have those pesky impartial witnesses around.  

Even if it also can document when the civilian is lying about police misconduct.

[8D]

[cannon_fodder]

I would like to point out that the police seem to be in the biggest hurry just before their shift ends.  Zooming down the BA to downtown or up Harvard to 36th N.  Wish there was something citizens could do to hold them accountable, but complaining is just putting a big "X" on the back of your car.

[MH2010]

quote:Originally posted by Friendly Bear

quote:Originally posted by Wilbur

quote:Originally posted by Friendly Bear

quote:Originally posted by recyclemichael

I don't want to generalize all police officials based on what an officer in another state does. I am sure there are some officers with improper attitudes, but I am certain that most of the Tulsa Police are respectful of the citizen and their rights.

Now the Glenpool police...that is a different matter.

It's hardly isolated to one police jurisdiction.

After TPD Officer Gus Spanoff was shot and killed in the line of duty some years ago, the citizens of Tulsa donated money for video-camcorders to be installed in all police cars.

Curiously, they didn't last long.......

All field police officers should have a streaming video camera attached to their forehead for our protection.

And theirs, too.

$400,000 was donated and the 'best of the time' systems were purchased.  But, at the time, it was relatively new technology, and the systems started breaking down almost immediately.  You can't buy an off-the-shelf camcorder and put it in a police car and expect it to last long.  Anything technology wise has to be ruggidized before installation, which makes it very expensive.

Most officers would love to have some sort of camera system in their cars, but, as usual, expense is the problem.  Most systems (worth anything) now are running around $5K-$8K each.  So, come up with $3,000,000 and you've got a deal.

Wait, I know.  How about another tax!

As the policeman weighs the pros and cons of a video camera in their patrol vehicle, their major negative is that is provides an impartial witness to police misconduct.

They know from experience, if there is only the policeman's testimony, and a civilian allegeding police misconduct, the judge will side with the police 999 out of 1,000 times.

So, they generally would prefer to not have those pesky impartial witnesses around.  

Even if it also can document when the civilian is lying about police misconduct.

[8D]

I know of no FOP union that is advocating cell phone jammers.  Maybe you have us mistaken with those people that fly the "black helicopters".

As in our other discussion, most officers want to have cameras and sound recordings in their vehicle but the city can't afford it.

The main negative with cameras in vehicles is there is only one angle that the situation is recorded from. This angle could only show part of the situation and not capture the entire event as it is seen by the officer.  There are new camera devices that officers can wear that records what the officer sees.  These would be great but they are ultra expensive. Maybe the mayor or the county will float another tax to pay for them![]

[patric]

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Friendly Bear</i>

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by recyclemichael</i>

I don't want to generalize all police officials based on what an officer in another state does. I am sure there are some officers with improper attitudes, but I am certain that most of the Tulsa Police are respectful of the citizen and their rights.

Now the Glenpool police...that is a different matter.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

It's hardly isolated to one police jurisdiction.

After TPD Officer Gus Spanoff was shot and killed in the line of duty some years ago, the citizens of Tulsa donated money for video-camcorders to be installed in all police cars.

Curiously, they didn't last long.......<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

The guys in the city garage pretty much summed it up to "user failure," which is a soft term for abuse at the hands of people who are very insecure with being documented.

The "Camcorders for Cops" promotion came on the heels of his death after he repeatedly threatened to kill an enemy of his, who apparently took the treats seriously.

We have 3G networks in Tulsa, and streaming live video from a phone you pull from your pocket will be more and more common.  Odds are the average citizen will have "crash cams" and streaming video before our police figure it's time to catch up.

Yeah, the kid was a smart donkey, and played the cops like a fiddle.  Does that say more about the subjects or the cops?

Good supervision makes for good police.

[Wilbur]

quote:Originally posted by cannon_fodder

I would like to point out that the police seem to be in the biggest hurry just before their shift ends.  Zooming down the BA to downtown or up Harvard to 36th N.  Wish there was something citizens could do to hold them accountable, but complaining is just putting a big "X" on the back of your car.

Well, considering officers don't go back to their divisions at the end of their shift, pretty well blows that bogus theory right out of the water.

And I won't even address Mr. Bear's comments since he obviously doesn't have one bit of fact to back that crazy comment up with.

[Wilbur]

quote:Originally posted by patric

quote:Originally posted by Friendly Bear

quote:Originally posted by recyclemichael

I don't want to generalize all police officials based on what an officer in another state does. I am sure there are some officers with improper attitudes, but I am certain that most of the Tulsa Police are respectful of the citizen and their rights.

Now the Glenpool police...that is a different matter.

It's hardly isolated to one police jurisdiction.

After TPD Officer Gus Spanoff was shot and killed in the line of duty some years ago, the citizens of Tulsa donated money for video-camcorders to be installed in all police cars.

Curiously, they didn't last long.......

The guys in the city garage pretty much summed it up to "user failure," which is a soft term for abuse at the hands of people who are very insecure with being documented.

The officer's name was Spanos, and he wasnt exactly known as a "hero" when he was a security guard at TU.  The "Camcorders for Cops" promotion came on the heels of his death after he repeatedly threatened to kill an enemy of his, who apparently took the treats seriously.

We have 3G networks in Tulsa, and streaming live video from a phone you pull from your pocket will be more and more common.  Odds are the average citizen will have "crash cams" and streaming video before our police figure it's time to catch up.

Yeah, the kid was a smart donkey, and played the cops like a fiddle.  Does that say more about the subjects or the cops?

Good supervision makes for good police.

The "guys in the city garage" never work on communication/electronic features in a car, so they have no idea what was wrong with the systems, nor would they ever agree to look at one.  Only Telecommunications employees work on these types of add-on equipment.  Any they could not keep supplies in stock to keep the systems going.  Couldn't even piece a system together with parts from several.

The new stuff is nice, digital has helped tremendously, along with the ruggidized stuff that is out there (all adds to the price).  The 'tivo' feature in the newer systems help so you don't end up recording 10-hours worth of garbage for 5-minutes worth of evidence.  The new stuff, once you hit the record button, will go back a minute or two and start recording, so you're not trying to save 10-hours of video on a huge hard drive.