Police misconduct 2

[DolfanBob]

Hole up! Hole up! y'all. We're Red!
They're going to have to take away the ability for these Officers to turn off their dash cams.

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/st-louis-police-video-at-heart-of-lawsuit-dismissal-of/article_f4c65142-f3be-57f1-a957-9f256fb02459.html

[patric]

Hole up! Hole up! y'all. We're Red!
They're going to have to take away the ability for these Officers to turn off their dash cams.

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/st-louis-police-video-at-heart-of-lawsuit-dismissal-of/article_f4c65142-f3be-57f1-a957-9f256fb02459.html

Seems to be a trend that probably should be addressed by the courts.

Like this
(Officer) Days eventually turns his attention to the vehicle and its dashboard camera, telling officers in the last recorded exchange, "Turn it off, everybody should be off."
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/01/21/police-video-shows-routine-traffic-stop-turn-deadly/22144795/

and this
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2943283/Minnesota-police-officer-shoots-party-goer-three-times-four-crucial-minutes-dash-camer-footage-later-goes-missing.html

[Vashta Nerada]

Police memorial desecrated.

http://denver.cbslocal.com/2015/02/14/2-arrested-after-police-memorial-vandalized-during-protests-in-denver/

PARTY TIME for at least two TNF posters.

Union: "Law enforcement agencies across the nation are under siege right now."

"It is telling that at this moment, local media and the Denver Police Department are more offended over red paint being splashed on a piece of stone than the very real red blood that continues to stain our streets because of unchecked police violence."
http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_27532580/reaction-swirls-police-id-men-arrested-defacing-memorial

It took only a few seconds for the fire department to rinse the paint from the stone, after being held back by a police union representative intent on exploiting a photo opportunity.





We all saw how upset Guido was when someone vandalized the memorial in Ferguson.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2014/12/28/ferguson-police-department-puts-officer-on-leave-after-remarks-about-destroyed-memorial/?hpid=z4



Oh, and here is what a REAL public defender does: Defend the public.
Here's one that was arrested for doing just that.
  http://photographyisnotacrime.com/2015/01/san-francisco-public-defender-arrested-defending-client/

"I was arrested for what we do as public defenders every day," Tillotson said of the encounter, which was captured in a video that the public defender's office posted on YouTube. "I asked questions. I talked to my client and explained to him his rights. At that point, I was told I was interfering and taken into custody."
"Interfering with police" was one of those broad-brush laws police unions pressured lawmakers into passing nationwide, and you can see here how easily it is to abuse.


No One Is Stoking an Anti-Police Movement. We Just Want Better Policing
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2014/12/ismaaiyl_brinsley_murdered_two_police_officers_in_brooklyn_police_departments.html
When criminals kill cops, they're punished. But when cops kill citizens, the system breaks down and no one is held accountable. That is what people are protesting.

[guido911]

No One Is Stoking an Anti-Police Movement. We Just Want Better Policing
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2014/12/ismaaiyl_brinsley_murdered_two_police_officers_in_brooklyn_police_departments.html
When criminals kill cops, they're punished. But when cops kill citizens, the system breaks down and no one is held accountable. That is what people are protesting.

So naturally, one protests by burning down innocent businesses, looting stores, disrupting people having meals, attacking innocent bystanders, assassinating police officers, etc. Looks like a whole bunch of people are being held to account to me.

And stow the "I want better policing" crap. You want perfect policing according to your own standards. Cops are out there every day, doing great work in our communities. How about you? Maybe I need a refresher, could you point to me your last 2-3 positive news stories about police?

[rebound]

And stow the "I want better policing" crap. You want perfect policing according to your own standards. Cops are out there every day, doing great work in our communities. How about you? Maybe I need a refresher, could you point to me your last 2-3 positive news stories about police?

There are plenty of (rightly) positive stories about police.  That's not his job.  He's an activist, and I mean that as a compliment.  Activists, on any topic, are the "canaries in the coal mine" that call attention to issues before they get beyond correction.   So argue the point, or maybe accept that there is something to his position, but don't expect him to present both sides.  That's not his role, and we need to remember that is a very valuable position in our society.

[DolfanBob]

There are plenty of (rightly) positive stories about police.  That's not his job.  He's an activist, and I mean that as a compliment.  Activists, on any topic, are the "canaries in the coal mine" that call attention to issues before they get beyond correction.   So argue the point, or maybe accept that there is something to his position, but don't expect him to present both sides.  That's not his role, and we need to remember that is a very valuable position in our society.

True that. Him or Her is the TMZ of this forum. And like the nightly news. The stories of Police getting the kitty out of a tree. Or walking the elderly across a busy street is not going to get the spotlight in this negative society we live in.
My posting of these stories is that it's becoming more apparent that this kind of activity is happening more and more when these individuals are paid very high salaries by the city taxes. And they abuse the law against the citizens that are supposed to be protected. And then the law agency finds a way to protect them against prosecution and in some cases maintain their job.

And here is a fine example of what I just stated. The "elbow of justice" http://www.tulsaworld.com/communities/owasso/news/owasso-city-council-oks-more-than-in-back-pay-to/article_98c93c12-2bd1-5bc9-acd3-a42a9d6a8eaf.html

[guido911]

There are plenty of (rightly) positive stories about police.  That's not his job.  He's an activist, and I mean that as a compliment.  Activists, on any topic, are the "canaries in the coal mine" that call attention to issues before they get beyond correction.   So argue the point, or maybe accept that there is something to his position, but don't expect him to present both sides.  That's not his role, and we need to remember that is a very valuable position in our society.

Well then. Since being an activist does not mean you should be responsible enough to not tell half-truths, distortions, and misrepresentations, or generally cherry-picked incidents and anecdotes to support only one view...Ladies and gentlemen, I give you one of Oklahoma's greatest "activists", who often opines on a "topic", which according to rebound is "very valuable position in our society":



Let's wait for the compliments to start rolling.

[Ed W]

The availability of small, high quality video equipment lead to the exposure of numerous abuses of power by LEOs. I don't expect the number actually changed, but previously those incidents were more easily dismissed when citizens complained. Video produced accountability. If an officer routinely disregards people's rights and his department's own procedures, neither the public nor his fellow officers want him out on the street.

[rebound]

Well then. Since being an activist does not mean you should be responsible enough to not tell half-truths, distortions, and misrepresentations, or generally cherry-picked incidents and anecdotes to support only one view...Ladies and gentlemen, I give you one of Oklahoma's greatest "activists", who often opines on a "topic", which according to rebound is "very valuable position in our society":



Let's wait for the compliments to start rolling.

Man,  you need to work on a depth of argument.  And seriously, I'm not sure why you and some others think a picture is always necessary to make a point most of the time?  I think you think it is somehow shorthand for a much larger position, but it doesn't work most of the time, at least not for me.  But regardless, I'll bite anyway.  First, I am not sure who this is?  Sally Kern? Couldn't you have just said Sally Kern, without the picture?  

Your original accusation against Vashta was that he was not presenting both sides of the argument, not that he was being untruthful or misrepresenting anything.  There are numerous people on this board, you included, that don't present both sides of an argument, so to suggest that he should is illogical.  That's not what he does.  And if you follow his (or maybe her, sorry...) posts, it's pretty easy to figure out where he is coming from.  He's an advocate or an activist, take your pick.  And again, especially in public discourse, that's a good thing.

Now, if you feel he is being untruthful, that's another story.  Hit him with facts to counter his position on specific posts, etc.  For example, there was a lot of good back and forth on the Ferguson incident on this board, with both sides calling into question the veracity of the others' positions and points.  Great stuff, and we could use more like it on issues like this.  (However, "there's a lot of good cops, so shut up about the bad ones" doesn't really cut it.)

Also, I make a great distinction between you, me or Vashta in that we are simply private citizens opining on message board.  We can afford to have one-sided opinions and be idiots if we want.  Kern on the other hand is an elected official, and I (rightfully, I think) hold her to higher standard.  Unfortunately, she and others in our Legislature often fail to live up to that standard.


 

[patric]

The availability of small, high quality video equipment lead to the exposure of numerous abuses of power by LEOs. I don't expect the number actually changed, but previously those incidents were more easily dismissed when citizens complained. Video produced accountability. If an officer routinely disregards people's rights and his department's own procedures, neither the public nor his fellow officers want him out on the street.

It only took 3 days of body-cam use to catch the elbow cop, but it should also be noted that it was a fellow officer that filed the complaint, and the city fired him.... but the union went to court and got still-lieutenant Mike Denton his exact same position back, and $283,420.04 in back pay.

Now he wants back-overtime.

The guy Denton bloodied up was offered $1,500 not to sue while still in jail, which he took, but had to give right back to pay court fees.

[Conan71]

She's got to be a Fred Phelps love child.  Ca-reepy.

[guido911]

Man,  you need to work on a depth of argument.  And seriously, I'm not sure why you and some others think a picture is always necessary to make a point most of the time?  I think you think it is somehow shorthand for a much larger position, but it doesn't work most of the time, at least not for me.  But regardless, I'll bite anyway.  First, I am not sure who this is?  Sally Kern? Couldn't you have just said Sally Kern, without the picture?  

Your original accusation against Vashta was that he was not presenting both sides of the argument, not that he was being untruthful or misrepresenting anything.  There are numerous people on this board, you included, that don't present both sides of an argument, so to suggest that he should is illogical.  That's not what he does.  And if you follow his (or maybe her, sorry...) posts, it's pretty easy to figure out where he is coming from.  He's an advocate or an activist, take your pick.  And again, especially in public discourse, that's a good thing.

Now, if you feel he is being untruthful, that's another story.  Hit him with facts to counter his position on specific posts, etc.  For example, there was a lot of good back and forth on the Ferguson incident on this board, with both sides calling into question the veracity of the others' positions and points.  Great stuff, and we could use more like it on issues like this.  (However, "there's a lot of good cops, so shut up about the bad ones" doesn't really cut it.)

Also, I make a great distinction between you, me or Vashta in that we are simply private citizens opining on message board.  We can afford to have one-sided opinions and be idiots if we want.  Kern on the other hand is an elected official, and I (rightfully, I think) hold her to higher standard.  Unfortunately, she and others in our Legislature often fail to live up to that standard.


 

On attacking my depth of argument, sounds like someone is upset they were hoisted on their own petard. First, you set the ground rules, live with them. Second, you made ZERO distinction between private vs. public activists, and holding "any" activist to a higher standard merely because they are elected to some post is nothing than a baseless double standard.

You gave the ol' "applause sign" to a person I consider to be what's wrong with sincere activism. IMO, fear mongering and hostility to authority without any sense of balance makes someone a propagandist in that area--not an activist. Propaganda is offensive and does not further debate. Now, have I behaved that way? Sure, sometimes. And when I do I expect to called on it. And people do. 

[guido911]

The availability of small, high quality video equipment lead to the exposure of numerous abuses of power by LEOs. I don't expect the number actually changed, but previously those incidents were more easily dismissed when citizens complained. Video produced accountability. If an officer routinely disregards people's rights and his department's own procedures, neither the public nor his fellow officers want him out on the street.

And those LEO should get prosecuted or subject to civil action. You don't burn crap down or give excuses to provide cover for those that do.

[heironymouspasparagus]

You don't burn crap down or give excuses to provide cover for those that do.

Except for when you do??   Like all those one-sided activists who started this country?  How dare they take a one-sided pose AND burn crap down...??
I think someone would have been a Loyalist....


America... change it or lose it!!

I gotta print out some bumper stickers....

[guido911]

Except for when you do??   Like all those one-sided activists who started this country?  How dare they take a one-sided pose AND burn crap down...??
I think someone would have been a Loyalist....


America... change it or lose it!!

I gotta print out some bumper stickers....

I think your fluid levels need addressed--immediately.