First Bell’s, now concrete plant, next ORU?

[inteller]

if ORU goes down I get first dibs on the praying hands.  i plan on reshaping them into a pair of hands holding a penis with a fountain coming out the end and emptying into a wishing well....and I will call it "Pissing Away Our Tax Dollars"

[Porky]

quote:Originally posted by inteller

if ORU goes down I get first dibs on the praying hands.  i plan on reshaping them into a pair of hands holding a penis with a fountain coming out the end and emptying into a wishing well....and I will call it "Pissing Away Our Tax Dollars"

Too bad this didn't happen a couple of years ago. That campus would of made a great place to set up City Hall and it comes with a huge arena. The River Project would of been just down the street for Mayor Taylor to check on every day. Awww...if we'd only known.

btw.....sht's 7 thru 10 is where all the juicy stuff is: [^]

http://www.tulsaworld.com/webextra/content/2007/pdfs/Swails_vs_ORU.pdf

[cannon_fodder]

quote:Originally posted by inteller

if ORU goes down I get first dibs on the praying hands.  i plan on reshaping them into a pair of hands holding a penis with a fountain coming out the end and emptying into a wishing well....and I will call it "Pissing Away Our Tax Dollars"

Can we have the statute mounted on one of the new pedestrian bridge and "peeing" into the river.  Man that would rule.  Or on Keystone dam if you are into the whole pee from heights thing.  Another possibility would be to put it in a public park, so we can get peed on if we so desire.

Perhaps we could just hoist the hands and use them on the giant naked Indian statue.  We could make up some BS excuse for the hand gesture, people are stupid and believe what you tell them anyway.  The possibilities are endless.

quote:The Barbarian Wrote

or maybe they will fall short on their campaign goal and God really will come down on them

Yes, yes it did make me smile.

[Townsend]

quote:Originally posted by Porky

quote:Originally posted by inteller

if ORU goes down I get first dibs on the praying hands.  i plan on reshaping them into a pair of hands holding a penis with a fountain coming out the end and emptying into a wishing well....and I will call it "Pissing Away Our Tax Dollars"

Too bad this didn't happen a couple of years ago. That campus would of made a great place to set up City Hall and it comes with a huge arena. The River Project would of been just down the street for Mayor Taylor to check on every day. Awww...if we'd only known.

btw.....sht's 7 thru 10 is where all the juicy stuff is: [^]

http://www.tulsaworld.com/webextra/content/2007/pdfs/Swails_vs_ORU.pdf

Jeez, Mrs Roberts is a bad person per the charges.  What's up with all the "under aged boys"?  Bow chicka bow bow

edit:

Clapping students greeted Richard Roberts, as he took to the stage for Wednesday morning chapel. Roberts told the students he was awakened in the middle of the night by God and told to write.

"We live in a litigious society. Anyone can get mad and file a lawsuit against another person, whether they have a lawsuit or not," says ORU president Richard Roberts.

Yup, sounds like the word of God to me.  Holy crap.

[RecycleMichael]

When God talks to me while I am sleeping in the middle of the night, it is always about buying my wife jewelry.

Funny, God sounds just like my wife whispering.

[cannon_fodder]

God told me to pay for my daughters to go to my University, and then after they gragitate to salary them at $365,000.00 each.

Did you read that?  ORU pays the Roberts daughters $365,000 a year!  Seriously, pancakes.  Tenured law professors at OU don't make that money.  

I used to think the misguided fool was drinking his own Kool-Aid, now I'm convinced he's in it for the money.  Maybe it started out differently, but no non-profit/charity/god factory should be engaged in nepotism to that tune.  No way.

$365,000 a year for each of his daughters.  Plus a plane.  Plus the benni's.  Dear god.

[Conan71]

ORU has been an easy target for years, as has their mega-ministry- just like any other.  For all the underhanded, greedy things which go on behind the scenes in the name of God, people like Oral and Richard Roberts have managed to do a lot of good for mankind around the world through their graduates who have made a difference (Tim Harris excepted [] ), mission programs, etc.

Honestly, reading the court filing, I see a lot of things in it which are not really surprising nor that much different than any other private family business.  I realize universities and ministries are different than say NORDAM, but there are allegations in this lawsuit not unlike those brought by Robin Siegfried against Ray Siegfried and his family in the NORDAM suit.

People who run their own business frequenty reap the perks- company cars, fuel paid for, "business" trips which just happen to be on the ocean, Vegas, or Vail, a house on company property, etc.  Just using all available loop-holes which exist in tax laws.

University presidents, coaches and other staff are frequently given cars and other luxury perks, this is not earth-shattering news.  That's been a tradition for a long time at schools public and private.  I remember when I worked at Metro Motors for Tink Wilkerson (a big ORU booster) back in the mid '80's, Borg-Warner auto credit would have to go out to ORU for their monthly floorplan audit to find the seven or eight Volvo or Jaguar demos which were not accounted for at the dealership.

Honestly, this is a big to-do about nothing.  Do I admire the Roberts family?  I don't admire their apparent arrogance and hypocrasy.  I don't think their rights as operators of a couple of large businesses is that much different than anyone else with a privately-held enterprise which brings in a lot of $$.

I'm not apologizing at all for them.  This just isn't that surprising nor would the allegations be a big deal if it weren't for the lack of apparent Christianity in these people's own personal lives.

[cannon_fodder]

Conan, I disagree strongly.  This isn't about how the Roberts run their business... its the fact that it IS NOT SUPPOSED TO BE A BUSINESS.  They receive amazing tax benefits by being a not-for-profit university and yet more tax advantages from being a charitable organization and a church.

Using these advantages to enrich your family is not only an abuse of the goodwill of thousands of people, its an abuse of University funds and probably of non-profit status.  As much as I think ORU is an asset to this community, such things are a gross abomination.  And that's ignoring the other allegations in the lawsuit and just mentioning the facts concerning amazing salaries for family members.

and, just as a matter of reference, NORDAM requires family members to be employed elsewhere before they can get a job in the company.  Not to mention, they are a stated FOR-PROFIT business, so they can pay whom they like, what they like.  When ORU becomes FOR-PROFIT they can do much more and escape my criticism.    Until then, Oral is a hypocrite using the name of god to enrich himself and his family in whatever way possible.

[waterboy]

quote:Originally posted by cannon_fodder

Conan, I disagree strongly.  This isn't about how the Roberts run their business... its the fact that it IS NOT SUPPOSED TO BE A BUSINESS.  They receive amazing tax benefits by being a not-for-profit university and yet more tax advantages from being a charitable organization and a church.

Using these advantages to enrich your family is not only an abuse of the goodwill of thousands of people, its an abuse of University funds and probably of non-profit status.  As much as I think ORU is an asset to this community, such things are a gross abomination.  And that's ignoring the other allegations in the lawsuit and just mentioning the facts concerning amazing salaries for family members.

and, just as a matter of reference, NORDAM requires family members to be employed elsewhere before they can get a job in the company.  Not to mention, they are a stated FOR-PROFIT business, so they can pay whom they like, what they like.  When ORU becomes FOR-PROFIT they can do much more and escape my criticism.    Until then, Oral is a hypocrite using the name of god to enrich himself and his family in whatever way possible.

Yeah, I gotta go with that. Any adult who watched the religious scandals in the 80's, which included Oral's blessed water sales (which came from a tap and was never even near a Roberts) lost credibility in their not for profit status. Employees routinely tore up letters asking for Oral's prayers for their maladies while immediately shipping the checks off to the bank. Swell operation.

[RecycleMichael]

I think they are just bad spellers.

They added an "L" to the word God.

G-O-L-D.

[Double A]

[Conan71]

quote:Originally posted by cannon_fodder

Conan, I disagree strongly.  This isn't about how the Roberts run their business... its the fact that it IS NOT SUPPOSED TO BE A BUSINESS.  They receive amazing tax benefits by being a not-for-profit university and yet more tax advantages from being a charitable organization and a church.

Using these advantages to enrich your family is not only an abuse of the goodwill of thousands of people, its an abuse of University funds and probably of non-profit status.  As much as I think ORU is an asset to this community, such things are a gross abomination.  And that's ignoring the other allegations in the lawsuit and just mentioning the facts concerning amazing salaries for family members.

and, just as a matter of reference, NORDAM requires family members to be employed elsewhere before they can get a job in the company.  Not to mention, they are a stated FOR-PROFIT business, so they can pay whom they like, what they like.  When ORU becomes FOR-PROFIT they can do much more and escape my criticism.    Until then, Oral is a hypocrite using the name of god to enrich himself and his family in whatever way possible.

The list is very long of preachers who have and are doing the exact same thing.  I'm not absolving the Roberts, this is nothing new and it's apparently accepted by congregations all over the country.  I don't know if you recall the whole scandal with Robert Tilton that happened about 15 or so years back.  Tulsa was the epicenter for it because his attorney maintained a drop box here in Tulsa for him.  By all appearances Tilton is as rich as ever and people keep giving to that charleton (spelling on the fly today...sorry).

I have a general disdain for organized religion.  I've seen over the years it's an industry.  I'm a very spiritual person, I'm just not real religious about going to church.

Is ORU chartered as a not-for-profit university?  Even still, I believe many universities, public, private, and non-profit (is there really such a thing?) provide housing and vehicles for the president.  That's not so unusual as it sounds.  It's also been a well-known fact throughout Tulsa that the Robertses live on a compound owned by the ministry or university.  Also not unusual for a ministry or church to provide a "parsonage".

If money is budgeted for upkeep for a parsonage and renovating it every year and a half is accepted as being "up-keep".

A minister of an independent church can set his own pay and benefit structure, there are no federally-mandated guidelines, FAIK, for how much a preacher can or cannot pay himself.

Personally, I don't give two sh!ts about the allegations.  It's their greed, it's not on my back, they can reconcile it with their own donors, their own conciences, and God.

[Townsend]

Did somebody say "Tilton"?

http://www.fartingpreacher.org/index.php?action=showpic&cat=25&pic=65

[shadows]

CF post
What this has to do with the river I have no idea................................
------------------------------------------------
There was no intention on the part of the writer to associate the area as revising the river discussion.

It was to open discussion about the city and the contributions made by three local persons who spent much of their lives trying to fulfill their dreams of making Tulsa more than a dot on the maps.
The  silent governing body of the city can destroy at their pleasure. It was the article in the TW that suggested with such flimsy accusing finger pointing that the whipping boy of ORU might be brought down.  

Bob Bell worked every spare moment he could muster to build a carnival, beginning with a little train in the 67 hundred block of East Admiral place to a multi-million dollar entertainment center that the political system reduced to rubble.  The operation hired local persons who could account for their actions.

The concrete plant was built by a man who started by pouring  driveways in new additions.

The third dreamer in high school set as his goal  to gather thousands of people to hear him talk.    He was able to program himself with the ability to lead and draw people together in a
common cause.

Roberts, so I have been told, was digging the foundations of the ORU complex while the zoning board was telling him he could not have a permit. It is said he told them that he was commanded to do it.   The area is being built up and the University has a large acreage in that area.

The  YP's of yesterday watch today as the downtown mall that fell on its face is torn up and replaced.   The YP's of today are building another downtown where a person cannot walk a block in safety and telling them there is plenty of parking three blocks away.

If one goes over the published IRS returns filed they should be shocked at the "at will" and "high paid city employees" receive a much greater salary than those ORU can pay to teach in their higher education arena.

50% of the city employees, who drive city cars and have expense accounts, eat in the city coffee shop on city time, are subjected to what ORU is accused of.  This in know as "perks for six figure employees".

Many CEO use these perks and they consider them as tips.

Who does one think pays for the expenses half way around the world for the trips taken by board and authority members?  The political meeting yesterday were held in the school cafeterias now have to be held in Vegas

Before we find such fault in ORU lets think what has been given freely to the University,   What you give to the city to pay those above normal salaries you do under threats.

I believe Crawford was an accountant at ORU before he was elected mayor.    

     

[waterboy]

quote:Originally posted by shadows

CF post
What this has to do with the river I have no idea................................
------------------------------------------------
There was no intention on the part of the writer to associate the area as revising the river discussion.

It was to open discussion about the city and the contributions made by three local persons who spent much of their lives trying to fulfill their dreams of making Tulsa more than a dot on the maps.
The  silent governing body of the city can destroy at their pleasure. It was the article in the TW that suggested with such flimsy accusing finger pointing that the whipping boy of ORU might be brought down.  

Bob Bell worked every spare moment he could muster to build a carnival, beginning with a little train in the 67 hundred block of East Admiral place to a multi-million dollar entertainment center that the political system reduced to rubble.  The operation hired local persons who could account for their actions.

The concrete plant was built by a man who started by pouring  driveways in new additions.

The third dreamer in high school set as his goal  to gather thousands of people to hear him talk.    He was able to program himself with the ability to lead and draw people together in a
common cause.

Roberts, so I have been told, was digging the foundations of the ORU complex while the zoning board was telling him he could not have a permit. It is said he told them that he was commanded to do it.   The area is being built up and the University has a large acreage in that area.

The  YP's of yesterday watch today as the downtown mall that fell on its face is torn up and replaced.   The YP's of today are building another downtown where a person cannot walk a block in safety and telling them there is plenty of parking three blocks away.

If one goes over the published IRS returns filed they should be shocked at the "at will" and "high paid city employees" receive a much greater salary than those ORU can pay to teach in their higher education arena.

50% of the city employees, who drive city cars and have expense accounts, eat in the city coffee shop on city time, are subjected to what ORU is accused of.  This in know as "perks for six figure employees".

Many CEO use these perks and they consider them as tips.

Who does one think pays for the expenses half way around the world for the trips taken by board and authority members?  The political meeting yesterday were held in the school cafeterias now have to be held in Vegas

Before we find such fault in ORU lets think what has been given freely to the University,   What you give to the city to pay those above normal salaries you do under threats.

I believe Crawford was an accountant at ORU before he was elected mayor.    

     

Ridiculous. You are comparing city employees to the Roberts' lavish lifestyle? Not even close. Even so, does that justify his behavior? A new low for you Shadow, the protector of the proletariat, the defender of the elderly who can't afford 4cents on a 10 dollar purchase.

And with such weak reasoning as well. "Mommy, the kids next door are doing it! Why can't I?"

The foundations that you speak of...were they the foundations of the asbestos laden white elephant at 17th & Boulder? What a visionary.