Wednesday Morning Quarterback

[spoonbill]

I think the Yes side did some things too well.  The prolifereation of ads using sad children was a bit over the top!  I've had people on both sides mention that.  My wife works for one of the big doners on the Yes side, and THEY were even a bit uneasy about some of the shameless promotion.

The yes side also used ads that mentioned street improvements to be paid for by the program.  The same street programs that many of us remembered being included in the last penny increase that were never acomplished.  Pointing out these little jewels in the advertisements reminded us of the previous broken promices including the second low-water dam that was never built.

The Yes side did a poor job rallying the voters outside of the city of Tulsa.  Because they did very little research into voter motivation outside of Tulsa.  They assumed that the surrounding communities need their help to thrive.  They did not pay attention to what was happening in these communities and the basis for their recent expansion.

But how could they rally these votes? Broken Arrow has become so friendly to private development, why would they want to invest in a tulsa municipal program?  More Broken Arrow residents are able find careers inside of Broken Arrow and break the umbilical to Tulsa every day.  

Bixby, Jenks and Glenpool have just completed a huge branding campaign, effectivly re-branding their communities as "The South County" (www.southcountytulsa.com).  They have just begun thier big marketing campaign.  They collectivly spent close to a million dollars (donated by private developers) with the same PR/Branding consultant that Tulsa used for the Tulsa Yes Vote (Ironic). Why would they want to jeperdise that investment?  

Jenks has an inventory of over 1,000 home-sites available, and new commercial/office and retail development offering jobs to residents currently commuting to Tulsa.

The proposal had some little cookies thrown in to gain the support of the surrounding communities, but there was nothing in the proposed plan that made people outside of Tulsa want to support it over supporting efforts in their own back yard.  

The No voters inside the city just remember all of the other TEMPORARY sales tax increases that neither paid for what they were supposed to, or were ever TEMPORARY.  

There was no real effort made on the NO side.  It was unnecessary.  The mantra sounded the same this time. . .The Yes side did a wonderful job reminding educated voters of previously broken promises.  I think the the best thing that the No side did was remain silent.

[tim huntzinger]

quote:Originally posted by chesty


I'm sorry you think it sucked.  

I am sorry you are sorry, just me being the pot calling the pan a dish or whatever.

[RecycleMichael]

Come on, Tim.

The website was fine. The content was easy to read, the links all worked, and it contained lots of related stories.

Why do you feel compelled to attack her work? What make you the expert on all things web?

Do you want us to all criticize your website?

[brunoflipper]

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

There's really no myopia here.  RM is dead-on with his analysis of the north side vote, a lot of people on that side of town just don't turn out to the polls.

I was amazed at the number of yes signs up in No Tul when I've been up there on business in the last few weeks.  Many yes signs in yards which was a shock.  

North Tulsa was neglected for years and years, city government has only in the last twenty years begun to make meaningful changes in that area of the city.  I can understand their lack of trust and cynicism.  I can understand why they thought the $5mm private gift was patronizing.  That should have been on the table from day 1, not as a last-minute inducement.

I'm really surprised Sand Springs voted it down, yet I guess winding up with a 9+% sales tax was a turn-off.

if the northside really thinks that they stuck it to the man, they are indeed myopic.
if they think that rallying to crush a regional development is a good thing for the northside, they are myopic.
if the world thinks it was because of the northside vote, they are myopic.
its myopia, anyway you slice it.

the map would seem to show it was the combined no votes of sand springs, broken arrow and the northside.

[tim huntzinger]

quote:Originally posted by recyclemichael

Come on, Tim.

The website was fine. The content was easy to read, the links all worked, and it contained lots of related stories.

Why do you feel compelled to attack her work? What make you the expert on all things web?

Do you want us to all criticize your website?

You asked for feedback and got it.  When I want your feedback I will ask for it, hear, listen: . . . . . . that silence is me asking for your feedback.

Sorry that I said anything, I did not say 'she' was a stupid-head for building that site, I did not say she was retarded and a bad person did I? No.  Get off my case or we gonna have a corn-dog duel.

[guido911]

I am just glad it's over. Now we can get back to more constructive issues such as bashing 2025 and the Bell's travesty. I miss the good ole days...

[waterboy]

quote:Originally posted by guido911

I am just glad it's over. Now we can get back to more constructive issues such as bashing 2025 and the Bell's travesty. I miss the good ole days...

There's plenty left on the plate.[]

[Conan71]

quote:Originally posted by brunoflipper

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

There's really no myopia here.  RM is dead-on with his analysis of the north side vote, a lot of people on that side of town just don't turn out to the polls.

I was amazed at the number of yes signs up in No Tul when I've been up there on business in the last few weeks.  Many yes signs in yards which was a shock.  

North Tulsa was neglected for years and years, city government has only in the last twenty years begun to make meaningful changes in that area of the city.  I can understand their lack of trust and cynicism.  I can understand why they thought the $5mm private gift was patronizing.  That should have been on the table from day 1, not as a last-minute inducement.

I'm really surprised Sand Springs voted it down, yet I guess winding up with a 9+% sales tax was a turn-off.

if the northside really thinks that they stuck it to the man, they are indeed myopic.
if they think that rallying to crush a regional development is a good thing for the northside, they are myopic.
if the world thinks it was because of the northside vote, they are myopic.
its myopia, anyway you slice it.

the map would seem to show it was the combined no votes of sand springs, broken arrow and the northside.

Care to comment on how throwing a $5mm bone at the northside two weeks before the election after three months of campaigning wasn't myopic?

Someone should have figured out that would just piss Roscoe and Henderson off even more.  North Tulsa is tired of being an afterthought in just about every development and public safety issue in this city.  I don't live there, never did, I've just watched the sentiment and the trend for a long time.

[brunoflipper]

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

quote:Originally posted by brunoflipper

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

There's really no myopia here.  RM is dead-on with his analysis of the north side vote, a lot of people on that side of town just don't turn out to the polls.

I was amazed at the number of yes signs up in No Tul when I've been up there on business in the last few weeks.  Many yes signs in yards which was a shock.  

North Tulsa was neglected for years and years, city government has only in the last twenty years begun to make meaningful changes in that area of the city.  I can understand their lack of trust and cynicism.  I can understand why they thought the $5mm private gift was patronizing.  That should have been on the table from day 1, not as a last-minute inducement.

I'm really surprised Sand Springs voted it down, yet I guess winding up with a 9+% sales tax was a turn-off.

if the northside really thinks that they stuck it to the man, they are indeed myopic.
if they think that rallying to crush a regional development is a good thing for the northside, they are myopic.
if the world thinks it was because of the northside vote, they are myopic.
its myopia, anyway you slice it.

the map would seem to show it was the combined no votes of sand springs, broken arrow and the northside.

Care to comment on how throwing a $5mm bone at the northside two weeks before the election after three months of campaigning wasn't myopic?

did i say it wasn't?[^]
i'm happy for the northside leaders see this as a wonderul victory...

cripes, not only was my ballot missing the "streets" option but it was missing the "northside" arrow as well... in fact, mine was only a yes or no on the river...

i know they're pissed and they're tired of getting screwed... and i don't blame them but i'm pretty certain that if we dont make some major economic impact and move this town in the right direction, they'll never get a damn thing... the roads will always be poorly patched, the cops will be stretched too thin and the pools will stay closed... i'm convinced from my recruiting that the river would have helped...

[chesty]

quote:Originally posted by tim huntzinger



You asked for feedback and got it.  When I want your feedback I will ask for it, hear, listen: . . . . . . that silence is me asking for your feedback.

Sorry that I said anything, I did not say 'she' was a stupid-head for building that site, I did not say she was retarded and a bad person did I? No.  Get off my case or we gonna have a corn-dog duel.

Calm down Tim.  I took it as constructive criticism.  If I designed websites for a living, I would be offended.  To be honest, If I never heard any thing but compliments, I would get too comfortable and then never improve.

RecycleMichael...at first I couldn't get the links to work for Firefox.  That was my first big obstacle.

[tim huntzinger]

And if I were a professional web developer my opinion would mean something! []

[Double A]

quote:Originally posted by Floyd

quote:Originally posted by Double A

quote:Originally posted by Floyd

quote:Originally posted by Double A

quote:Originally posted by sgrizzle

What did the Yes side do well?
Widespread campaign using multiple communication forms.

The best was the one that showed yet another conceptual rendering of a Broken Arrow River Development when Broken Arrow wasn't getting anything. The Chamber should use the same PR people in future campaigns.

The majority of my midtown Cherry St. precinct voted no and I didn't even bother to knock on doors or call like I usually do in my precinct in the run-up to elections.

The best thing about this vote is we now have a list of preachers, politicians, public personalities & pundits who can be bought and who cannot. The voters have a list to check twice now that they know who's naughty or nice.

[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v246/mistymountainhop/PUKES_sm.jpg[IMG]
[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v246/mistymountainhop/3Amigas_small.jpg[IMG]
[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v246/mistymountainhop/westcott_flash.jpg[IMG]

My friend, you stand for everything that is hateful and trashy about local politics in Tulsa, OK.  Take a look at yourself in the mirror and ask yourself what your motivations are.

Hate the game, not the playa. Unified for the Northside.

There's no game if nobody plays.  It's time to stop parochialism in Tulsa.

That's exactly what we did, stopped(even if it's only temporarily) the parochialism of the privileged. You'er welcome. Cheers.

[swake]

quote:Originally posted by Double A

quote:Originally posted by Floyd

quote:Originally posted by Double A

quote:Originally posted by Floyd

quote:Originally posted by Double A

quote:Originally posted by sgrizzle

What did the Yes side do well?
Widespread campaign using multiple communication forms.

The best was the one that showed yet another conceptual rendering of a Broken Arrow River Development when Broken Arrow wasn't getting anything. The Chamber should use the same PR people in future campaigns.

The majority of my midtown Cherry St. precinct voted no and I didn't even bother to knock on doors or call like I usually do in my precinct in the run-up to elections.

The best thing about this vote is we now have a list of preachers, politicians, public personalities & pundits who can be bought and who cannot. The voters have a list to check twice now that they know who's naughty or nice.

[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v246/mistymountainhop/PUKES_sm.jpg[IMG]
[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v246/mistymountainhop/3Amigas_small.jpg[IMG]
[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v246/mistymountainhop/westcott_flash.jpg[IMG]

My friend, you stand for everything that is hateful and trashy about local politics in Tulsa, OK.  Take a look at yourself in the mirror and ask yourself what your motivations are.

Hate the game, not the playa. Unified for the Northside.

There's no game if nobody plays.  It's time to stop parochialism in Tulsa.

That's exactly what we did, stopped(even if it's only temporarily) the parochialism of the privileged. You'er welcome. Cheers.

Double A

"Self destruction ain't rebellion"

[Hometown]

Well I live on the North Side and I had a Yes sign in my yard and my partner and I voted yes.  But I have to say that I was ashamed by the way the Yes Campaign was run.  I mean talk about finding the lowest common denominator.  

And the Tulsa World demonstrated to me once and for all that they do not deserve the public's trust.  They do not deserve their monopoly.  They provided no coverage of the "No" campaign and they used their election defeat to further divide and polarize Tulsa.  The Tulsa World does not get leadership.  A leader would have offered an olive branch to the opposition.  Tulsa suffers greatly for having the Tulsa World.  It is the World, not its legitimate critics, that is the Big Naysayer doing damage to Tulsa.  Robert Lorton read my words – A great city embraces and learns from its critics.

The World says the Arkansas is our greatest untapped resource.  I disagree.  Tulsa's greatest untapped resource is our working class that struggles under burdensome sales taxes and dirt wages and a system unfairly skewed to the advantage of their bosses.  People are more important than rivers.

Now I voted yes even though I believed we would be better off without the low water dams.  I like a natural Arkansas River with sandbars.  And I voted yes even though I had serious questions about the city buying land for private development on the West bank.  The only thing that really made sense on the yes side was the time that INCOG put into developing the plan, including the fact that they sought public input.

I am a proud liberal and I have a long history of casting votes that benefit Black people, but I don't see the River Tax defeat as any kind of victory for North Tulsa.  Indeed, given the conduct of Turner and Henderson the North Side has probably just thrown away a good deal of its political capital.  

If Turner and Henderson had gone to Taylor and said we can deliver X number of votes for your River Tax if you hire a police chief sensitive to issues important to the North Side, and gotten that hire, then that would have been a victory for North Tulsa.  

That's how coalition politics works and Democrats in Tulsa need to learn how to play coalition politics.  I will think twice before I cast another vote for Henderson.

Meanwhile, we haven't done anything to damage our river.  No clock is ticking on river development.

[Conan71]

Hometown, I think Lorton is a dreaded Reaganite. [}:)]

You have written one of the more gracious analysis of this that I've heard from people who were for this plan.

Roscoe had said as much that river development is worthwhile, but that the county was sticking it's nose where it didn't belong.

There is a principle that Michael Bates had talked about with parks.  People want a park within walking distance or a short drive.  Something in their neighborhood.  The river just isn't close enough to where the majority of the north Tulsa voter's live.

Jack Henderson and Roscoe Turner hold a lot of sway in north Tulsa.  They shouldn't have had to come to Mayor Taylor nor the campaign, the campaign should have come to them a long time ago to figure out what they could do to benefit north Tulsa directly.  They should have done the same for east Tulsa and they could have outrun the no votes in the suburbs by a slim margin.