What time will the first media call the election?

[waterboy]

quote:Originally posted by MichaelC

quote:Originally posted by TheArtist

Seems the trend is, we want our taxes to be kept in our community. There is no doing something somewhere else for a supposed "greater good".

That was what made Vision 2025 so "right".

Tulsa County has been down this road before.  It has the right combination, and it didn't use it.  They slipped this thing in, refused to consider all options, presented it before talking to the county about it, and it failed.  By a relatively slim margin.  Large numbers of folks in this county, really wanted this.  And they damn near succeeded.

There were good reasons to vote it down, not everyone who voted against it was one of the anti-tax stooges that troll this board.  North Tulsa felt slighted, BA and Owasso saw no benefit to it, for various reasons, they had every right to oppose it.  You can fill them full of regional benefits, but in the end, you have to be persuasive.  You can't just say "awww, screw em" then cross your fingers and hope they don't show up at the polls.  Try including them, we've successfully done this before.

No new taxes?  48% voted for this package, despite feelings about Randi Miller, Kathy Taylor, a piss-poor but expensive promotion strategy, seemingly little forethought towards the burbs, and a whole bunch of lying anti-tax fools.  All you have to swing is about 3500 of those who voted.  And extending or hiking that tax wouldn't take much, it was low to begin with.  

If this is the best package that Tulsa County and the City of Tulsa can give, then they don't know what they're doing and they should all be fired.  They put out a package, said "you'll vote for it or you won't", then watched as they lost large swaths of the county.  Despite their largely pathetic approach, they came so close.

The way it was handled from the very beginning told me that the vote was closer to a primer than the real deal, even though they gave it a serious push when they closed the gap.  I'd have loved to have seen it pass.  I'm nearly 100% confident that we'll see a similar expanded package within two years.

Your remarks are encouraging in a sea of sewage from the aginners.

The big loser imo is North Tulsa. Talk about childish, selfish, punishing leadership. They mobilized their community to be against Taylor and Miller instead of for something, anything. I, like Artist, am losing my compassion for their plight. Silence on their part would have been preferable to making it a political battle. Being left out of planning was an afterthought. Roscoe, retire. Henderson, get a job.

But you Michael C.? You should run for office. Anyone who can make me feel like staying here after being reminded of what Tulsa is really like, can build consensus here. Not consensus from the likes of Toony, Tiny, FB and AA but among those of us with differing political views but common business growth views.

Unless you really look like a troll and don't have Hillary tatooed on your bicep you should consider it.

[TheArtist]

quote:Originally posted by MichaelC

quote:Originally posted by TheArtist

Seems the trend is, we want our taxes to be kept in our community. There is no doing something somewhere else for a supposed "greater good".

That was what made Vision 2025 so "right".

Tulsa County has been down this road before.  It has the right combination, and it didn't use it.  They slipped this thing in, refused to consider all options, presented it before talking to the county about it, and it failed.  By a relatively slim margin.  Large numbers of folks in this county, really wanted this.  And they damn near succeeded.

There were good reasons to vote it down, not everyone who voted against it was one of the anti-tax stooges that troll this board.  North Tulsa felt slighted, BA and Owasso saw no benefit to it, for various reasons, they had every right to oppose it.  You can fill them full of regional benefits, but in the end, you have to be persuasive.  You can't just say "awww, screw em" then cross your fingers and hope they don't show up at the polls.  Try including them, we've successfully done this before.

No new taxes?  48% voted for this package, despite feelings about Randi Miller, Kathy Taylor, a piss-poor but expensive promotion strategy, seemingly little forethought towards the burbs, and a whole bunch of lying anti-tax fools.  All you have to swing is about 3500 of those who voted.  And extending or hiking that tax wouldn't take much, it was low to begin with.  

If this is the best package that Tulsa County and the City of Tulsa can give, then they don't know what they're doing and they should all be fired.  They put out a package, said "you'll vote for it or you won't", then watched as they lost large swaths of the county.  Despite their largely pathetic approach, they came so close.

The way it was handled from the very beginning told me that the vote was closer to a primer than the real deal, even though they gave it a serious push when they closed the gap.  I'd have loved to have seen it pass.  I'm nearly 100% confident that we'll see a similar expanded package within two years.

There were far more people arguing that taxes are too high, and just "no more taxes". How can the county come up with a plan that has less taxes yet has more things for more communities? Why wouldnt those communities just do exactly what they want and no more?

It seems absurd in this climate to come up with a plan that says, you get this, you get that, etc etc. BA, Glenpool and others were saying they need what possible new taxes may be raised have to go to their communities. Wy would they raise their taxes even more for a larger county tax when they can raise their city tax a smaller amount and get what they want? If they would be getting more than they would be paying in, that means someone is paying out more and getting less, Tulsa perhaps?

I would say Tulsa should pair up with Sand Springs if anyone, to help them with their larger dam because it will also help us with ours if we want them. Let Jenks build its own dam, they can afford it and will likely be able to pass it.

And no, I am not voting for anything more for north Tulsa. They already get more than they put in and they dont believe that things in another part of town can benefit them. So why should I believe that doing something in north Tulsa will benefit me?

[waterboy]

quote:Originally posted by TheArtist

quote:Originally posted by MichaelC

quote:Originally posted by TheArtist

Seems the trend is, we want our taxes to be kept in our community. There is no doing something somewhere else for a supposed "greater good".

That was what made Vision 2025 so "right".

Tulsa County has been down this road before.  It has the right combination, and it didn't use it.  They slipped this thing in, refused to consider all options, presented it before talking to the county about it, and it failed.  By a relatively slim margin.  Large numbers of folks in this county, really wanted this.  And they damn near succeeded.

There were good reasons to vote it down, not everyone who voted against it was one of the anti-tax stooges that troll this board.  North Tulsa felt slighted, BA and Owasso saw no benefit to it, for various reasons, they had every right to oppose it.  You can fill them full of regional benefits, but in the end, you have to be persuasive.  You can't just say "awww, screw em" then cross your fingers and hope they don't show up at the polls.  Try including them, we've successfully done this before.

No new taxes?  48% voted for this package, despite feelings about Randi Miller, Kathy Taylor, a piss-poor but expensive promotion strategy, seemingly little forethought towards the burbs, and a whole bunch of lying anti-tax fools.  All you have to swing is about 3500 of those who voted.  And extending or hiking that tax wouldn't take much, it was low to begin with.  

If this is the best package that Tulsa County and the City of Tulsa can give, then they don't know what they're doing and they should all be fired.  They put out a package, said "you'll vote for it or you won't", then watched as they lost large swaths of the county.  Despite their largely pathetic approach, they came so close.

The way it was handled from the very beginning told me that the vote was closer to a primer than the real deal, even though they gave it a serious push when they closed the gap.  I'd have loved to have seen it pass.  I'm nearly 100% confident that we'll see a similar expanded package within two years.

There were far more people arguing that taxes are too high, and just "no more taxes". How can the county come up with a plan that has less taxes yet has more things for more communities? Why wouldnt those communities just do exactly what they want and no more?

It seems absurd in this climate to come up with a plan that says, you get this, you get that, etc etc. BA, Glenpool and others were saying they need what possible new taxes may be raised have to go to their communities. Wy would they raise their taxes even more for a larger county tax when they can raise their city tax a smaller amount and get what they want? If they would be getting more than they would be paying in, that means someone is paying out more and getting less, Tulsa perhaps?

I would say Tulsa should pair up with Sand Springs if anyone, to help them with their larger dam because it will also help us with ours if we want them. Let Jenks build its own dam, they can afford it and will likely be able to pass it.

And no, I am not voting for anything more for north Tulsa. They already get more than they put in and they dont believe that things in another part of town can benefit them. So why should I believe that doing something in north Tulsa will benefit me?

Artist, it is becoming more and more obvious that the only solution to the Balkanization of the region, being encouraged for ambitious, political/religious reasons, is a city income tax. If you work here, you pay for the privilege. It would be punishing for the burbs, but the reality is that they suck the life out of our city, hang their expensive, wasteful lifestyles on us and refuse to admit their parentage and their reliance upon our success. Like impetuous teenagers.

Of course it will get a lot of demagogues elected on the platform of no new taxes unless you tie it directly to roads, infrastructure and the river. North Tulsa will love it, they'll take the earned income credit.

[MichaelC]

quote:Originally posted by TheArtist

There were far more people arguing that taxes are too high, and just "no more taxes". How can the county come up with a plan that has less taxes yet has more things for more communities? Why wouldnt those communities just do exactly what they want and no more?

Perhaps the ones you heard.  

I stayed outside this weird bubble on the forum, talked to a lot of people who were voting against it.  And there were several times I heard "I'm voting against it, but the tax is small and probably would benefit the area."  And instead of taxes, people were complaining about Randi Miller and how she comes off as dishonest or how she doesn't seem to care about real concerns.  

You're not trying to please everyone, it won't happen.  This isn't about the anti-tax folk, they're too stupid to try and convince.  You're automatically going to have near 40% opposed just because of idiots.  But a 6300 vote gap out of 127,000 people that voted, is small.    The Yes side and the gov't fell short.  They made a ton of errors, and almost passed it anyway.

This forum is only partially representative of the no vote.  Only the loud mouthed anti-tax idiots show up here.  There was a lot of thought that went into that 6300 vote difference, and it boils down to an exclusive tax and a character in gov't that certainly seemed to not care.

[Ibanez]

quote:Originally posted by waterboy

quote:Originally posted by TheArtist

quote:Originally posted by MichaelC

quote:Originally posted by TheArtist

Seems the trend is, we want our taxes to be kept in our community. There is no doing something somewhere else for a supposed "greater good".

That was what made Vision 2025 so "right".

Tulsa County has been down this road before.  It has the right combination, and it didn't use it.  They slipped this thing in, refused to consider all options, presented it before talking to the county about it, and it failed.  By a relatively slim margin.  Large numbers of folks in this county, really wanted this.  And they damn near succeeded.

There were good reasons to vote it down, not everyone who voted against it was one of the anti-tax stooges that troll this board.  North Tulsa felt slighted, BA and Owasso saw no benefit to it, for various reasons, they had every right to oppose it.  You can fill them full of regional benefits, but in the end, you have to be persuasive.  You can't just say "awww, screw em" then cross your fingers and hope they don't show up at the polls.  Try including them, we've successfully done this before.

No new taxes?  48% voted for this package, despite feelings about Randi Miller, Kathy Taylor, a piss-poor but expensive promotion strategy, seemingly little forethought towards the burbs, and a whole bunch of lying anti-tax fools.  All you have to swing is about 3500 of those who voted.  And extending or hiking that tax wouldn't take much, it was low to begin with.  

If this is the best package that Tulsa County and the City of Tulsa can give, then they don't know what they're doing and they should all be fired.  They put out a package, said "you'll vote for it or you won't", then watched as they lost large swaths of the county.  Despite their largely pathetic approach, they came so close.

The way it was handled from the very beginning told me that the vote was closer to a primer than the real deal, even though they gave it a serious push when they closed the gap.  I'd have loved to have seen it pass.  I'm nearly 100% confident that we'll see a similar expanded package within two years.

There were far more people arguing that taxes are too high, and just "no more taxes". How can the county come up with a plan that has less taxes yet has more things for more communities? Why wouldnt those communities just do exactly what they want and no more?

It seems absurd in this climate to come up with a plan that says, you get this, you get that, etc etc. BA, Glenpool and others were saying they need what possible new taxes may be raised have to go to their communities. Wy would they raise their taxes even more for a larger county tax when they can raise their city tax a smaller amount and get what they want? If they would be getting more than they would be paying in, that means someone is paying out more and getting less, Tulsa perhaps?

I would say Tulsa should pair up with Sand Springs if anyone, to help them with their larger dam because it will also help us with ours if we want them. Let Jenks build its own dam, they can afford it and will likely be able to pass it.

And no, I am not voting for anything more for north Tulsa. They already get more than they put in and they dont believe that things in another part of town can benefit them. So why should I believe that doing something in north Tulsa will benefit me?

Artist, it is becoming more and more obvious that the only solution to the Balkanization of the region, being encouraged for ambitious, political/religious reasons, is a city income tax. If you work here, you pay for the privilege. It would be punishing for the burbs, but the reality is that they suck the life out of our city, hang their expensive, wasteful lifestyles on us and refuse to admit their parentage and their reliance upon our success. Like impetuous teenagers.

Of course it will get a lot of demagogues elected on the platform of no new taxes unless you tie it directly to roads, infrastructure and the river. North Tulsa will love it, they'll take the earned income credit.

And then you will see businesses flee Tulsa and set up shop just outside city limits. The suburbs will turn into the cheap labor pool much like Mexico is to the rest of the U.S.A.

[waterboy]

quote:Originally posted by wavoka

quote:Originally posted by waterboy

quote:Originally posted by TheArtist

quote:Originally posted by MichaelC

quote:Originally posted by TheArtist

Seems the trend is, we want our taxes to be kept in our community. There is no doing something somewhere else for a supposed "greater good".

That was what made Vision 2025 so "right".

Tulsa County has been down this road before.  It has the right combination, and it didn't use it.  They slipped this thing in, refused to consider all options, presented it before talking to the county about it, and it failed.  By a relatively slim margin.  Large numbers of folks in this county, really wanted this.  And they damn near succeeded.

There were good reasons to vote it down, not everyone who voted against it was one of the anti-tax stooges that troll this board.  North Tulsa felt slighted, BA and Owasso saw no benefit to it, for various reasons, they had every right to oppose it.  You can fill them full of regional benefits, but in the end, you have to be persuasive.  You can't just say "awww, screw em" then cross your fingers and hope they don't show up at the polls.  Try including them, we've successfully done this before.

No new taxes?  48% voted for this package, despite feelings about Randi Miller, Kathy Taylor, a piss-poor but expensive promotion strategy, seemingly little forethought towards the burbs, and a whole bunch of lying anti-tax fools.  All you have to swing is about 3500 of those who voted.  And extending or hiking that tax wouldn't take much, it was low to begin with.  

If this is the best package that Tulsa County and the City of Tulsa can give, then they don't know what they're doing and they should all be fired.  They put out a package, said "you'll vote for it or you won't", then watched as they lost large swaths of the county.  Despite their largely pathetic approach, they came so close.

The way it was handled from the very beginning told me that the vote was closer to a primer than the real deal, even though they gave it a serious push when they closed the gap.  I'd have loved to have seen it pass.  I'm nearly 100% confident that we'll see a similar expanded package within two years.

There were far more people arguing that taxes are too high, and just "no more taxes". How can the county come up with a plan that has less taxes yet has more things for more communities? Why wouldnt those communities just do exactly what they want and no more?

It seems absurd in this climate to come up with a plan that says, you get this, you get that, etc etc. BA, Glenpool and others were saying they need what possible new taxes may be raised have to go to their communities. Wy would they raise their taxes even more for a larger county tax when they can raise their city tax a smaller amount and get what they want? If they would be getting more than they would be paying in, that means someone is paying out more and getting less, Tulsa perhaps?

I would say Tulsa should pair up with Sand Springs if anyone, to help them with their larger dam because it will also help us with ours if we want them. Let Jenks build its own dam, they can afford it and will likely be able to pass it.

And no, I am not voting for anything more for north Tulsa. They already get more than they put in and they dont believe that things in another part of town can benefit them. So why should I believe that doing something in north Tulsa will benefit me?

Artist, it is becoming more and more obvious that the only solution to the Balkanization of the region, being encouraged for ambitious, political/religious reasons, is a city income tax. If you work here, you pay for the privilege. It would be punishing for the burbs, but the reality is that they suck the life out of our city, hang their expensive, wasteful lifestyles on us and refuse to admit their parentage and their reliance upon our success. Like impetuous teenagers.

Of course it will get a lot of demagogues elected on the platform of no new taxes unless you tie it directly to roads, infrastructure and the river. North Tulsa will love it, they'll take the earned income credit.

And then you will see businesses flee Tulsa and set up shop just outside city limits. The suburbs will turn into the cheap labor pool much like Mexico is to the rest of the U.S.A.

Then the shoe will be on the other foot because using that logic, the burbs will have to raise their taxes to accommodate all the fleeing businesses with new infrastructure, road building, policing, water sourcing, public buildings, fire stations, sewer treatment plants, and on and on. Of course we peons here in Tulsa will be travelling over to BA for our new jobs and bringing the income home...city income tax free.

I like your thought process here. Go on.

[USRufnex]

quote:Originally posted by waterboy

Artist, it is becoming more and more obvious that the only solution to the Balkanization of the region, being encouraged for ambitious, political/religious reasons, is a city income tax. If you work here, you pay for the privilege. It would be punishing for the burbs, but the reality is that they suck the life out of our city, hang their expensive, wasteful lifestyles on us and refuse to admit their parentage and their reliance upon our success. Like impetuous teenagers.

Of course it will get a lot of demagogues elected on the platform of no new taxes unless you tie it directly to roads, infrastructure and the river. North Tulsa will love it, they'll take the earned income credit.

Wow.  Let's scapegoat bedroom communities.  And treat them like children.  That'd be really smart.  Good people who are raising families...

Nope.  Rampant territorialism is the problem in this city.

In Chicago, I never saw citizens from Schaumburg being asked to use a sales-tax to fund a Lake-only or Chicago River-only beautification project...

But go ahead... blame the 'burbs... THAT'S become the status quo in Tulsa...

[inteller]

quote:Originally posted by TheArtist

This is really kind of frightening. I dont know if I want to stay here and continue to watch Tulsa flounder. I had a lot of plans for things I wanted to do here but if the city is going to keep going like this, it may not be worth staying and putting the effort into something where its not going to matter or pay off.

My best friend ever, moved to Dallas. Another recently moved to Chicago. My last assistant moved to Dallas and the guy that has been workig with me for the last 3 years keeps talking about moving. The office for the mural project I am currently working on which will take until spring to finish is in Dallas. I am doing the painting on canvas here and shipping it to the Oklahoma Texas Border and people in Dallas keep saying I could make a killing there. I may start getting my "house in order" so that I can move in the spring once this job is over.

I suppose deep down the one reason I have kept staying here is that leaving will definitely bring home the fact that I have wasted so much time here. Practically all of my youth, the last 20 years, hanging in there, hoping things would get better here, while my friends have left and lived it up. Guess its better late than never lol. I am not dead yet. [8D]

To all the younger people out there... Leave now! dont waste any time here! Take it from me, its not gonna change.

please take you, and all your ilk and move to San Fran....PLEASE....do it for the children![}:)][}:)]

[inteller]

quote:Originally posted by Breadburner

Anyone think Swakes head exploded around 10:03......

one could only hope....but he was busy trolling with the regionalist drivel this morning..[V]

[Double A]

quote:Originally posted by waterboy

quote:Originally posted by MichaelC

quote:Originally posted by TheArtist

Seems the trend is, we want our taxes to be kept in our community. There is no doing something somewhere else for a supposed "greater good".

That was what made Vision 2025 so "right".

Tulsa County has been down this road before.  It has the right combination, and it didn't use it.  They slipped this thing in, refused to consider all options, presented it before talking to the county about it, and it failed.  By a relatively slim margin.  Large numbers of folks in this county, really wanted this.  And they damn near succeeded.

There were good reasons to vote it down, not everyone who voted against it was one of the anti-tax stooges that troll this board.  North Tulsa felt slighted, BA and Owasso saw no benefit to it, for various reasons, they had every right to oppose it.  You can fill them full of regional benefits, but in the end, you have to be persuasive.  You can't just say "awww, screw em" then cross your fingers and hope they don't show up at the polls.  Try including them, we've successfully done this before.

No new taxes?  48% voted for this package, despite feelings about Randi Miller, Kathy Taylor, a piss-poor but expensive promotion strategy, seemingly little forethought towards the burbs, and a whole bunch of lying anti-tax fools.  All you have to swing is about 3500 of those who voted.  And extending or hiking that tax wouldn't take much, it was low to begin with.  

If this is the best package that Tulsa County and the City of Tulsa can give, then they don't know what they're doing and they should all be fired.  They put out a package, said "you'll vote for it or you won't", then watched as they lost large swaths of the county.  Despite their largely pathetic approach, they came so close.

The way it was handled from the very beginning told me that the vote was closer to a primer than the real deal, even though they gave it a serious push when they closed the gap.  I'd have loved to have seen it pass.  I'm nearly 100% confident that we'll see a similar expanded package within two years.

Your remarks are encouraging in a sea of sewage from the aginners.

The big loser imo is North Tulsa. Talk about childish, selfish, punishing leadership. They mobilized their community to be against Taylor and Miller instead of for something, anything. I, like Artist, am losing my compassion for their plight. Silence on their part would have been preferable to making it a political battle. Being left out of planning was an afterthought. Roscoe, retire. Henderson, get a job.

But you Michael C.? You should run for office. Anyone who can make me feel like staying here after being reminded of what Tulsa is really like, can build consensus here. Not consensus from the likes of Toony, Tiny, FB and AA but among those of us with differing political views but common business growth views.

Unless you really look like a troll and don't have Hillary tatooed on your bicep you should consider it.

What's holding you back Waterbouy?

[waterboy]

quote:Originally posted by USRufnex

quote:Originally posted by waterboy

Artist, it is becoming more and more obvious that the only solution to the Balkanization of the region, being encouraged for ambitious, political/religious reasons, is a city income tax. If you work here, you pay for the privilege. It would be punishing for the burbs, but the reality is that they suck the life out of our city, hang their expensive, wasteful lifestyles on us and refuse to admit their parentage and their reliance upon our success. Like impetuous teenagers.

Of course it will get a lot of demagogues elected on the platform of no new taxes unless you tie it directly to roads, infrastructure and the river. North Tulsa will love it, they'll take the earned income credit.

Wow.  Let's scapegoat bedroom communities.  And treat them like children.  That'd be really smart.  Good people who are raising families...

Nope.  Rampant territorialism is the problem in this city.

In Chicago, I never saw citizens from Schaumburg being asked to use a sales-tax to fund a Lake-only or Chicago River-only beautification project...

But go ahead... blame the 'burbs... THAT'S become the status quo in Tulsa...

Planning on moving to one of the burbs, eh? Maybe you should reconsider and stay in the windy city where race decides where people live.

[waterboy]

quote:Originally posted by Double A

quote:Originally posted by waterboy

quote:Originally posted by MichaelC

quote:Originally posted by TheArtist

Seems the trend is, we want our taxes to be kept in our community. There is no doing something somewhere else for a supposed "greater good".

That was what made Vision 2025 so "right".

Tulsa County has been down this road before.  It has the right combination, and it didn't use it.  They slipped this thing in, refused to consider all options, presented it before talking to the county about it, and it failed.  By a relatively slim margin.  Large numbers of folks in this county, really wanted this.  And they damn near succeeded.

There were good reasons to vote it down, not everyone who voted against it was one of the anti-tax stooges that troll this board.  North Tulsa felt slighted, BA and Owasso saw no benefit to it, for various reasons, they had every right to oppose it.  You can fill them full of regional benefits, but in the end, you have to be persuasive.  You can't just say "awww, screw em" then cross your fingers and hope they don't show up at the polls.  Try including them, we've successfully done this before.

No new taxes?  48% voted for this package, despite feelings about Randi Miller, Kathy Taylor, a piss-poor but expensive promotion strategy, seemingly little forethought towards the burbs, and a whole bunch of lying anti-tax fools.  All you have to swing is about 3500 of those who voted.  And extending or hiking that tax wouldn't take much, it was low to begin with.  

If this is the best package that Tulsa County and the City of Tulsa can give, then they don't know what they're doing and they should all be fired.  They put out a package, said "you'll vote for it or you won't", then watched as they lost large swaths of the county.  Despite their largely pathetic approach, they came so close.

The way it was handled from the very beginning told me that the vote was closer to a primer than the real deal, even though they gave it a serious push when they closed the gap.  I'd have loved to have seen it pass.  I'm nearly 100% confident that we'll see a similar expanded package within two years.

Your remarks are encouraging in a sea of sewage from the aginners.

The big loser imo is North Tulsa. Talk about childish, selfish, punishing leadership. They mobilized their community to be against Taylor and Miller instead of for something, anything. I, like Artist, am losing my compassion for their plight. Silence on their part would have been preferable to making it a political battle. Being left out of planning was an afterthought. Roscoe, retire. Henderson, get a job.

But you Michael C.? You should run for office. Anyone who can make me feel like staying here after being reminded of what Tulsa is really like, can build consensus here. Not consensus from the likes of Toony, Tiny, FB and AA but among those of us with differing political views but common business growth views.

Unless you really look like a troll and don't have Hillary tatooed on your bicep you should consider it.

What's holding you back Waterbouy?

I don't have a tattoo of Reagan on my buttocks.[] Truly? Politics today is for the young or those who enjoy being abused. I am neither and I don't see an upside to serving. I do admire anyone who puts themself through the process.