jenks, owasso, ba- water rate increase?

[Ibanez]

quote:Originally posted by Chicken Little

Here's a proposed rate hike schedule for you guys:

Bixby 54%
Glenpool 66%
Collinsville 81%
Skiatook 75%
Owasso 73%
Broken Arrow 65%
Sand Springs 55%

Get it?

Unless I'm wrong Sand Springs gets most of its water from Shell Creek Lake and Skiatook Lake.

[waterboy]

quote:Originally posted by tulsa1603

Yeah, I'm not really sure how it's in Tulsa OR the region's best interests to sell water on the cheap to the suburbs....What a way to encourage sprawl and continue to overextend our infrastructure...not that it would make a bit of difference in development up there if water was more expensive..

I'm also opposed to a city income tax - I really CAN see businesses moving out, especially small businesses.  The 8 employee business I work for, while we enjoy working and living in midtown, seems like it would be easy for us to pull up stakes and move to Jenks.

But that's the beauty of it. Make it a temporary city income tax, say 5 years and earmarked for specific purposes. River development, road repairs and park amenities. Put sweeteners in it to keep small businesses from leaving, (hell we do that for any dangle who asks for it) but primarily its on the out of city employees. The businesses hire accountants to minimize their effect anyway.

Those businesses that leave and set up along the city limits now are less of a drain on the city of Tulsa's resources but a new drain on the burbs budget. The burbs have to provide water, sewer, police, fire etc. They'll probably be able to pay their employees less too since less travel time is necessary. Less traffic on the expressways too.

It's not punishment Inbred, its reality. If this city were a business, it would already be happening. The water thing is a given. When the cost of breaking the contract is less than the return on a reality based fee, it will happen.

[waterboy]

quote:Originally posted by wavoka

quote:Originally posted by brunoflipper

quote:Originally posted by wavoka

quote:Originally posted by inteller

well, considering misfortune signed a 30 year sweetheart deal with Owasso you can rule that one out.


stop with the revenge bull**** already.  i've never seen such a bunch of sore losers.[}:)]

Exactly

wow... seems you boys really don't want to have pay more for water??? well hell, maybe we're on to something...

someday, soon, jim cameron will die and i'll dance on his grave...

Do you're worst. We have well water where we are building the new house and are installing a reverse osmosis system in the house.

Water is just a start. When regionalism is finally killed there is lots of friendliness that will go with it. Put your dam in Wavoka. Don't forget to budget for water rescue. You don't have boats? Yeh, we do but they're busy. Sorry. We won't be sharing our equipment and training. And forget about getting surplus equipment from our givaway auctions each spring and fall. We can go internet and get better results.

When does your 911 system become operable?

[Ibanez]

quote:Originally posted by waterboy

quote:Originally posted by wavoka

quote:Originally posted by brunoflipper

quote:Originally posted by wavoka

quote:Originally posted by inteller

well, considering misfortune signed a 30 year sweetheart deal with Owasso you can rule that one out.


stop with the revenge bull**** already.  i've never seen such a bunch of sore losers.[}:)]

Exactly

wow... seems you boys really don't want to have pay more for water??? well hell, maybe we're on to something...

someday, soon, jim cameron will die and i'll dance on his grave...

Do you're worst. We have well water where we are building the new house and are installing a reverse osmosis system in the house.

Water is just a start. When regionalism is finally killed there is lots of friendliness that will go with it. Put your dam in Wavoka. Don't forget to budget for water rescue. You don't have boats? Yeh, we do but they're busy. Sorry. We won't be sharing our equipment and training. And forget about getting surplus equipment from our givaway auctions each spring and fall. We can go internet and get better results.

When does your 911 system become operable?

Hehe. Nothing like a bunch of vile hatred spewing forth from people on the losing side of a battle.

Personally I don't give a rip about any of that stuff. Don't use it, probably never will.

But I did vote yes on Tuesday.

[waterboy]

quote:Originally posted by wavoka

quote:Originally posted by waterboy

quote:Originally posted by wavoka

quote:Originally posted by brunoflipper

quote:Originally posted by wavoka

quote:Originally posted by inteller

well, considering misfortune signed a 30 year sweetheart deal with Owasso you can rule that one out.


stop with the revenge bull**** already.  i've never seen such a bunch of sore losers.[}:)]

Exactly

wow... seems you boys really don't want to have pay more for water??? well hell, maybe we're on to something...

someday, soon, jim cameron will die and i'll dance on his grave...

Do you're worst. We have well water where we are building the new house and are installing a reverse osmosis system in the house.

Water is just a start. When regionalism is finally killed there is lots of friendliness that will go with it. Put your dam in Wavoka. Don't forget to budget for water rescue. You don't have boats? Yeh, we do but they're busy. Sorry. We won't be sharing our equipment and training. And forget about getting surplus equipment from our givaway auctions each spring and fall. We can go internet and get better results.

When does your 911 system become operable?

Hehe. Nothing like a bunch of vile hatred spewing forth from people on the losing side of a battle.

Personally I don't give a rip about any of that stuff. Don't use it, probably never will.

But I did vote yes on Tuesday.

Then why participate in the sour grapes of the winners? Really, there are a dozen threads here with ranting from people who won't be satisfied till the perpetrators of this proposal are run out of town. They criticize them for bringing it up, then they criticize them for not continuing with some fictictious back up plan. They yell about unconditional philanthropy which is as rare as a white buffalo, then are angry when the man does what he said he would do and puts the money elsewhere.

My remarks about city's squaring off against each other, are an effort to show what idiot radio is doing to our community. Not the radio per se, but the venom it spews through Medlock and company. People are actually buying into the philosophy that each area should jealously fight for its own interests at the expense of the region. Well, ok. These are the results of that philosophy. And they are not fantasies.

[Ibanez]

quote:Originally posted by waterboy

quote:Originally posted by wavoka

quote:Originally posted by waterboy

quote:Originally posted by wavoka

quote:Originally posted by brunoflipper

quote:Originally posted by wavoka

quote:Originally posted by inteller

well, considering misfortune signed a 30 year sweetheart deal with Owasso you can rule that one out.


stop with the revenge bull**** already.  i've never seen such a bunch of sore losers.[}:)]

Exactly

wow... seems you boys really don't want to have pay more for water??? well hell, maybe we're on to something...

someday, soon, jim cameron will die and i'll dance on his grave...

Do you're worst. We have well water where we are building the new house and are installing a reverse osmosis system in the house.

Water is just a start. When regionalism is finally killed there is lots of friendliness that will go with it. Put your dam in Wavoka. Don't forget to budget for water rescue. You don't have boats? Yeh, we do but they're busy. Sorry. We won't be sharing our equipment and training. And forget about getting surplus equipment from our givaway auctions each spring and fall. We can go internet and get better results.

When does your 911 system become operable?

Hehe. Nothing like a bunch of vile hatred spewing forth from people on the losing side of a battle.

Personally I don't give a rip about any of that stuff. Don't use it, probably never will.

But I did vote yes on Tuesday.

Then why participate in the sour grapes of the winners? Really, there are a dozen threads here with ranting from people who won't be satisfied till the perpetrators of this proposal are run out of town. They criticize them for bringing it up, then they criticize them for not continuing with some fictictious back up plan. They yell about unconditional philanthropy which is as rare as a white buffalo, then are angry when the man does what he said he would do and puts the money elsewhere.

My remarks about city's squaring off against each other, are an effort to show what idiot radio is doing to our community. Not the radio per se, but the venom it spews through Medlock and company. People are actually buying into the philosophy that each area should jealously fight for its own interests at the expense of the region. Well, ok. These are the results of that philosophy. And they are not fantasies.

I'm just pissed off at partisanship more so than usual at the moment. Being more interested in hating each other and pointing fingers than actually solving problems, partisans ARE the problem.

[waterboy]

^agreed. We need some smartly tailored coalitions that reject partisanship.

[inteller]

quote:Originally posted by brunoflipper

quote:Originally posted by inteller

well, considering misfortune signed a 30 year sweetheart deal with Owasso you can rule that one out.


stop with the revenge bull**** already.  i've never seen such a bunch of sore losers.[}:)]

"revenge bull****?" you poor ignorant $%#&@%@*&!, i was mere suggesting another revenue stream that was not sales tax...

yeah, at the expense of the locales who voted the tax down.  stop with your bully tactics....they fly like lead balloons and these days BA, Owasso, et al have the cahones to TAKE AWAY the very businesses that tulsa so prides itself in having so that everybody "has to work in tulsa"

believe me....when leases are up businesses look...and if they see that most of their employees live in BA or Owasso AND one or both of those cities are giving heavy incentives to move....they will move.  any "punishment fee" bull**** like you are proposing will just entice them more.

[waterboy]

quote:Originally posted by inteller

quote:Originally posted by brunoflipper

quote:Originally posted by inteller

well, considering misfortune signed a 30 year sweetheart deal with Owasso you can rule that one out.


stop with the revenge bull**** already.  i've never seen such a bunch of sore losers.[}:)]

"revenge bull****?" you poor ignorant $%#&@%@*&!, i was mere suggesting another revenue stream that was not sales tax...

yeah,  these days BA, Owasso, et al have the cahones to TAKE AWAY the very businesses that tulsa so prides itself in having so that everybody "has to work in tul

Again with the "balls" references. Are you typing one handed?

[Ed W]

quote:Originally posted by inteller



yeah, at the expense of the locales who voted the tax down.  stop with your bully tactics....

Just two points: in a Jeffersonian democracy the underlying assumption is that people will vote their own best interests.  His basic view of humanity is that we're grasping, greedy, and vain, and the discussion regarding the river tax vote and its aftermath seems to support that assumption.  The bottom line, then, is that the vote accurately reflected the will of the electorate.

The other point is this - there will come a time when the county needs the backing of every community for some project.  Reckless talk of 'revenge' against those communities that voted against the river tax (and in effect, voted their own self-interests) only serves to stoke the fires of animosity.  This will make unanimity more difficult to achieve in the future.  A more productive approach may be to analyze why this proposal failed to attract suburban voters, absent the name-calling  that seems to infect some of the disgruntled 'yes' voters.  

I believe Roscoe Turner said the rejection of the river tax by the north side had more to do with the city 'planning FOR us rather than planning WITH us.'  I think there's a lesson to be learned here.  Any plan that is perceived as benefiting only part of the county will fail.

[waterboy]

quote:Originally posted by Ed W

quote:Originally posted by inteller



yeah, at the expense of the locales who voted the tax down.  stop with your bully tactics....

Just two points: in a Jeffersonian democracy the underlying assumption is that people will vote their own best interests.  His basic view of humanity is that we're grasping, greedy, and vain, and the discussion regarding the river tax vote and its aftermath seems to support that assumption.  The bottom line, then, is that the vote accurately reflected the will of the electorate.

The other point is this - there will come a time when the county needs the backing of every community for some project.  Reckless talk of 'revenge' against those communities that voted against the river tax (and in effect, voted their own self-interests) only serves to stoke the fires of animosity.  This will make unanimity more difficult to achieve in the future.  A more productive approach may be to analyze why this proposal failed to attract suburban voters, absent the name-calling  that seems to infect some of the disgruntled 'yes' voters.  

I believe Roscoe Turner said the rejection of the river tax by the north side had more to do with the city 'planning FOR us rather than planning WITH us.'  I think there's a lesson to be learned here.  Any plan that is perceived as benefiting only part of the county will fail.

The plan was narrowly defeated with the city of Tulsa passing it and the burbs not. Correct? There will be no unanimity in the future when such opposing interests are arrayed unless you empty the cupboards to meet every areas demands. That shouldn't be done and probably wouldn't work anyway.

Talk of revenge and punishment is silly. These are merely natural consequences.
Bears repeating. Natural consequences. I understood the arguments presented against the plan but did not relish the consequences of opposing it.

We have an uninformed populace. Not uneducated, simply unwilling to spend the time we do on these threads to analyze what actually is best for themselves and the region. And our politicians seem naive about the results of their actions. Not a good combination.

[Ed W]

quote:Originally posted by waterboy


We have an uninformed populace. Not uneducated, simply unwilling to spend the time we do on these threads to analyze what actually is best for themselves and the region.

That was part of the problem with the YES argument - almost an imperative "this is what's best for you" that came across as condescending, at best.  

But when you contrast the river vote with the school vote in OKC, which was approved by 80% of the voters, I think it's obvious that voters will approve a tax that benefits the community.  And I suspect the 20% who voted 'no' are the same one who vote 'no' on any tax issue.

[TeeDub]

While I admire your wonderfully defeatist attitude of "they didn't pander to our rich friends so let's take them down with us..."    

Last time I checked, BA has it's own water treatment plant and goes so far as to sell water to some rural water districts.  I can't imagine that they would give Tulsa the money if they did raise the rates.

I think raising Tulsa's water prices on the other hand is a great idea and they should definitely do it to encourage business into the area.

[Chicken Little]

quote:Originally posted by TeeDub


While I admire your wonderfully defeatist attitude of "they didn't pander to our rich friends so let's take them down with us..."    

Last time I checked, BA has it's own water treatment plant and goes so far as to sell water to some rural water districts.  I can't imagine that they would give Tulsa the money if they did raise the rates.

I think raising Tulsa's water prices on the other hand is a great idea and they should definitely do it to encourage business into the area.

Good point, TeeDub.  Tulsa should jack BA's sewer rates.  Last I checked, Haikey Creek WWT does not belong to BA.  The real money's in sewers anyway.

[TeeDub]

Damn the man.   I guess Tulsa will have to pick on their own voters for not turning out for a stupid tax.

If only Tulsans supported the rich then it wouldn't have mattered what BA thought.   Oh wait,  we don't want to cast stones at those people.


Sewer won't work either.
"The City of Broken Arrow maintains its own water treatment and wastewater treatment plants, its own water and sewer lines and the personnel to work on keeping the systems in good working order and making improvements."
http://www.brokenarrowok.gov/our-citizens/quality_life/water_sewer.htm