More allegations against the Roberts

[kongsuni]

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

What ever happened to it being easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than a rich man gaining entrance to heaven?

Nothing. That was an analogy, though. Basically saying that you can't buy your way into heaven.

As far as wealth is concerned.. Proverbs 13:18 says "Poverty and shame shall be to him that refuseth instruction: but he that regardeth reproof shall be honoured."

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

The Bible contains enough stories, allegories, proverbs, etc. that one can find justification for about any action, up to, and including killing another man.  I've seen the Bible bastardized for personal gain in many, many ways.  I'm not impuning this inspired work, I'm impuning people who have used it and God's name for nefarious gains and building extreme personal wealth on the backs of lonesome pensioneers.

I can't blame you for that. I think it's wrong for these preachers to ask people for money, so they can use it themselves. I don't support it at all.. But you know what? They're the ones that will have to pay for that, not you or me. Ever hear that song "sucks to be you"?.. LOL Well, It sure does suck to be someone who does that, cause... They'll surely land themselves in a bit of a pickle sometime or another. But they definitely won't get away with it!

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

"Seed faith" evangelists are up there on my list as being the worst of the worst hucksters and hustlers.

Can't blame you for that. It's really horrible that a lot of these ministries take people's money.. A lot of people who don't have any money.. They call in or send off a check or something & it's those people's last bit of money... Those poor people.

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

The concept and purpose of tithing is about personal sacrifice for the good of others and self-humility.  However, the concept of tithing isn't limited to financial contributions.  It takes very little thought to donate money.  It takes a heart to donate your time or skills.  Think of the the old "give a man a fish vs. teaching him to fish".

I agree with you! Actually, in the bible, when people "tithed", it was usually food.. Like.. People would bring some animals for sacrifices & the priests would give the parts to God that he needed/wanted for himself & then cook the animals for the village.. The only ones that actually got to keep stuff were the Levites. Some people didn't have livestock, so they'd bring some of their crops.. So the whole tribe or whatever would basically get together & have a big feast & talk about how awesome God is. That's not what modern preachers do with what they're given.

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

I won't sit here and deny that donations to ORM haven't gone to worthwhile missions which have provided comfort to people all over the world.  There are also ORU graduates who have become better humans for their experience and education at ORU.

Yep!

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

The Roberts are wide open for criticism, and that criticism is not done without a certain amount of self-examination, at least for me.  Just because I'm a common sinner is not justification for an inspired leader of many Christians to be partaking in greed, gluttony, and "sins of the flesh". They have gained a sense of entitlement at the expense of thousands of people who believe that their contributions all go to good causes.  Richard Roberts appears to have zero compassion in dealing with dissidents in his ranks and lavish spending is considered a necessity and a right.

I don't know him, so I can't say. I only had contact with the girls & Lindsay Robert's. They seemed really nice, but you never know. My dad always told me that a Christian is not who you are in public, but who you are in private.

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

What is truly sad is that Richard and Lindsey Roberts have evolved into celebrities and all the screwed up thinking which comes with that.

I agree. :/ So sad.

quote:Originally posted by cannon_fodder

Wow.

While I have some seriously theological and religious differences of opinions with you Kongsuni, I am thoroughly impressed with your reasoned and well written response.  Too often people stop in and post a righteousness bomb and walk away feeling they are holier than thou.  I misjudged you and I apologies.  I'm glad to learn that you understand the faults in your beliefs, have studied in that accord and are willing to question what you know.  

Again, thanks for a well thought out reply.

Oh goodness! LOL I certainly don't believe that I'm holier than anyone. Yikes. LOL It's okay for having misjudged me. It happens (it's the internet! woo hoo! XD)

I can't accept things at face value. I have to dig for myself & I can't sit there & accept something that doesn't make sense, just because someone tells me it's what I should believe. If it's the right way to believe, then there should be no problems when you question it or look for supporting evidence or whatnot. ie:

"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works."

[^]

~ Kongsuni

[restored2x]

quote:
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Sorry, guy - but that post just makes me feel "icky". Needs a dash of grace and some unconditional love.
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I'm not a guy. I'm female. As for love, I don't think people have to be pushovers or something to love people. I'm not out there telling people they're going to burn in hell forever & whatnot. I was basically trying to say that no one is perfect, it's not our business what other people do, because we should be working on ourselves & how can people judge others when they aren't so hot themselves? (that's including me).. Pointing that sorta thing out (at least in my opinion) is very loving. XD The way I actually say things & the way they end up coming off online are very different, so I apologize if I sounded mean or something, I wasn't trying to be. lol I'm just a very blunt person I guess. (one of the many things I need to work on!!)

Sorry about calling you a guy. I commend you for your obvious study habits. I may not agree with you completely, but I do agree with your bottom line assessment - it is not my personal business to judge another for their faults.

Having an opinion and passing judgment are two different things. I have an opinion, and believe that it is forged in decades of experience in ministry, study and observation. I may share that opinion with close friends and family - but not here.

It would probably be irrelevant here. Most people in Tulsa have already made up their minds about ORU, the Roberts, and ministries in general. No amount of online debate will change those folks' minds and that's OK.

Being direct is not a fault. Why, some of my best friends are direct...

[RecycleMichael]

"I finally found out how priests get holy water. They boil the hell out of it."

Joan Rivers

[kongsuni]

quote:Originally posted by recyclemichael

"I finally found out how priests get holy water. They boil the hell out of it."

Joan Rivers

[:O] LMAO []

[Conan71]

quote:Originally posted by kongsuni

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

The Roberts are wide open for criticism, and that criticism is not done without a certain amount of self-examination, at least for me.  Just because I'm a common sinner is not justification for an inspired leader of many Christians to be partaking in greed, gluttony, and "sins of the flesh". They have gained a sense of entitlement at the expense of thousands of people who believe that their contributions all go to good causes.  Richard Roberts appears to have zero compassion in dealing with dissidents in his ranks and lavish spending is considered a necessity and a right.

I don't know him, so I can't say. I only had contact with the girls & Lindsay Robert's. They seemed really nice, but you never know. My dad always told me that a Christian is not who you are in public, but who you are in private.

I think it also goes along the lines of:

"If you have to tell someone you are a Christian, you likely aren't" []

Sounds like we are on the same page.  I guess a few of us thought you were a self-righteous hit-and-run poster.

Glad to see that we were disproved by your later replies.  Stick around and join the fun on the rest of our dicussions.

[kongsuni]

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

I think it also goes along the lines of:

"If you have to tell someone you are a Christian, you likely aren't" []

Sounds like we are on the same page.  I guess a few of us thought you were a self-righteous hit-and-run poster.

Glad to see that we were disproved by your later replies.  Stick around and join the fun on the rest of our dicussions.

[:I] Why thank you. [] Don't mind if I do! [^]

Nope, not a hit & run poster. I know those types, though. LOL I run a couple forums myself, so I can't blame ya for thinking that. []

You all seem very nice & I'm happy to be here.

Best Wishes,
~ Kongsuni

[tim huntzinger]

I remember the Chapel service during the $8 million days.  Richard stood up and told the assembled that we would 'burn' if we criticized Oral.

One sister-in-law nannied the (younger) tykes, and had nothing negative to say (but the housekeeper thought Lindsay threw tatrums.) The other sis-in-law was the (older) kids' favorite teacher at Victory and so her and bro were over for dinner, nothing wierd.

If the Robertses were really involved with some mentally ill dually addicted kids it would not be unusual for them to have extensive contact with them at odd hours.

[Rowdy]

quote:Originally posted by tim huntzinger

I remember the Chapel service during the $8 million days.  Richard stood up and told the assembled that we would 'burn' if we criticized Oral.

That's a mighty strong accusation to make Tim and you either need to show proof or state it is your opinion that is what was said.  Otherwise you could face a libel suit.

[tim huntzinger]

I would look forward to the 'discovery' phase.  He did not say 'burn in hell' or 'burn in perdition,' just 'burn.'

[Rowdy]

Good enough then.  You stated for a fact, not your opinion that this indeed did happen.  Duly noted and hope you are accurate.

[cannon_fodder]

Roberts is a public figure... a suit over ANYTHING said on a message bored would be extremely difficult.  Not to mention the damages portion of the trial.  "Your honor, user name Tim defamed me and I want money."  Judge:  "Why?"

[Conan71]

quote:Originally posted by cannon_fodder

Roberts is a public figure... a suit over ANYTHING said on a message bored would be extremely difficult.  Not to mention the damages portion of the trial.  "Your honor, user name Tim defamed me and I want money."  Judge:  "Why?"

I thought the judge would say something like: "I can't say I blame him for defaming you..."

[breitee]

Like Father , Like Son: Both crooks.

[NellieBly]

Saw a report that Richard has temporarily stepped down from ORU.

[breitee]

He should be run out of town. What a huckster. Anyone who donates to this worms ministry deserved to be ripped off. Good riddance!