Roscoe Says: "Do the River!"

[carltonplace]

He is for river developement even though it doesn't help his district!

Tulsa World

City Councilor Roscoe Turner wants councilors to approve a resolution Thursday that asks the administration to move forward on developing the west bank of the Arkansas River.

The action comes a week after the defeat of a $282 million Tulsa County river development tax proposal, against which Turner campaigned.

"I get sick of people asking me about the river," Turner said Tuesday during a council committee meeting.

"I've always said I wanted to do the river anyway," he said. "I think we need to send something to the administration saying we're in favor of this and we need to be involved in it."

[sgrizzle]

He's trying to patch a PR wound that since he was against the vote, he was against the river. Of course this from the person who implied that if you were for the vote, you were for empty north Tulsa grocery stores and Ron Palmer.

Granted the resolution has no weight to it, but I would like to see it pass anyway.

[TulsaWD]

Nice.
Roscoe changes his mind and now Christiansen says we need to focus on roads.

LOL,
Roscoe:
Two weeks ago - We don't need tax to support the river. We need to open Albertsons, develope North Tulsa, and fix the roads.

This week - All we need to do is spend 34M on some land on the west bank. It's cheap. Let's unite and develope the river.

Christiansen:
Two weeks ago - This is a one shot deal. Matching private funds, lot's of potential private developement on tap. Vote Yes!

This week - We had the chance to unite and passed it up. Let's move on to put our full focus on the streets and other needs.


It seems for as long as I can remember there has always been a  "jackas" clause with the city council. The clause states their must always be at least one jackass on the council and that at least three councelors much take a jackass stance, make a jackass decision, or get into a petty arguement with another jackass on the council once every three months or potentially be removed from the council.

[TheArtist]

I think I may have misunderstood the possible use of a tiff for a Tulsa Landing type development. We are actually in a bit of a catch 22 situation.

A good sized development would need some of the city property above and beyond just the concrete plant property. In order to use city property the city has to put out a "request for proposal". But if the developer does not own the concrete plant property, you cant really show a "whole" development only that part on the city property. You cant very well show a proposal that is on property you dont own or someone else could buy.

A developer cant just buy the concrete plant property and then ask the city to put out a request for proposal, because the city isnt really in a position to "choose" since he would really be the only one that could do a good sized development. However, that could be a way out of the mess, but you are basically left with whoever buys the concrete plant property and hoping that they have a good plan. Though a lot of people are going to cry fowl and that its an unfair set-up.

[Conan71]

This is no surprise.  Roscoe stated plainly that this should be city not county business all the way back in July.  The voters spoke and they did not like this as a county-wide initiative.

River development and roads don't have to be mutually-exclusive.

I think people were of the misunderstanding that all improvements would happen simultaneously and everything would be over-hauled in three or four years.  Just not the case had the tax passed.  It was quite likely it would have taken longer than the seven year tax collection period.  We could have a nice MUD on the west bank within three years.  

V-2025 owes us some beautification projects on Zink Lake which were not subject to matching funds, Jenks may forge ahead with their own dam, let's see what it takes to help Sand Springs build one.

[T-TownMike]

You really should post the entire article. It states he wants westsiders to PAY for the tax. What a moronic plan. How can you encourage growth if you tax the the district that wants to grow? Roscoe has his head buried in the sand.

[breitee]

Roscoe has got to go!

[patric]

Seems like  98% of the voters were for river development but not everyone was for a nebulous plan hurriedly cobbled together to do it...

I dont see Turner's action as being anything but cautiously optimistic and responsible.

[Conan71]

quote:Originally posted by T-TownMike

You really should post the entire article. It states he wants westsiders to PAY for the tax. What a moronic plan. How can you encourage growth if you tax the the district that wants to grow? Roscoe has his head buried in the sand.

Please quote the paragraph where he says he wants west-siders to pay for the tax.  I've read it twice and didn't see it.

[TheArtist]

quote:Originally posted by patric

Seems like  98% of the voters were for river development but not everyone was for a nebulous plan hurriedly cobbled together to do it...

I dont see Turner's action as being anything but cautiously optimistic and responsible.

I am beginning to hate the term "river development", its almost too general. It should be broken down into  "River Development" meant only as private business, "River Infrastructure" meant as dams, pedestrian bridges, shoreline hardening or modification, and "River Parks improvements", park space, nature preserve, trails, fountains, restrooms, etc.

Seems the average person has different ideas of what River Development in the general sense means and that effects how they perceive how "it" should be done. You end up getting responses like. "I dont want my tax dollars paying for a strip mall along the river"
"I think private developers should do all of it" no private developer is going to build a dam. "the donors should do all of it" they arent going to pay for a private developer to make money. etc. etc.

The question to me is, How is the city going to get that cement plant property? You know danged well that if they try to buy it, all heck will break loose. Will make the rants about the new city hall look like sweet nothings. "What about the roads, crime, schools!?" "How can they spend money on this when we have other pressing needs?"

[carltonplace]

I could be wrong but, TDA routinely buys and sells property and offers it for RFP to developers. If they could unload the Towerview site and several others downtown, maybe they could grab this one. Not certain if this developer wants to buy or lease or if the price tag is too high for TDA or if they even have that kind of cheddar. TDA was involved in the parcel collection for TU's land acquisition on route 66 (I hate those apartments), and they have the power to invoke ED for the greater "public good". It would be a hard sell to prove that the mixed use development is better for the public than a cement farm.

AJ would know what the options are, but he has been missing for awhile.

[Conan71]

Artist- all good points.  I think those are some of the lessons learned.

Perhaps if they would have broken it down better for the average voter AND had more time to fully educate the public instead of sappy ads... eh, let's not re-tread that.

I just want to hear someone say, "we heard you, we've listened, we've learned" from this instead of ramming spite up the tail pipes of people who were uncomfortable with this.

I hope/think that will come.  Maybe not at the moment, probably in the spring.

[T-TownMike]

It's in THIS ARTICLE...

City Councilors support river development
 Reported by: Chris Cordt
Email: cordt@kjrh.com
Last Update: 10/16 9:27 pm  

Three Tulsa City Councilors that opposed the river tax now back a resolution to support river development. The resolution calls for developing the west bank by 21st and Jackson without raising taxes.

Councilors Jack Henderson and Roscoe Turner support river development. They previously opposed a countywide sales tax increase to pay for development. Henderson says, "I've always contended that river development was a great idea. I've never had a problem with that and a lot of people are confused thinking I did. I had a problem with the taxes they were trying to associate it with." Turner added, "They gave me a tax I didn't want to vote on. And they gave me a county running our tax. I didn't want that." Henderson and Turner co-authored a resolution to support development on the west bank.

HCW, the company that developed Branson Landing, is talking to the city about building a similar concept at 21st and Jackson. Tulsa resident Patty Dake voted for the river plan. She's glad to hear the river might still be developed. Dake says, "We go other places like Branson or Texas for places to go shop and enjoy ourselves. And we don't have anything, and we need to bring more people to Tulsa." The city now has to figure out how to buy land on the west bank.

Councilors Turner, Henderson, and John Eagleton say the way to pay for this project is to use property taxes collected from a district that would be formed on the west side. The city council is expected to vote on the resolution Thursday.  

[Conan71]

quote:Originally posted by T-TownMike

It's in THIS ARTICLE...

City Councilors support river development
 Reported by: Chris Cordt
Email: cordt@kjrh.com
Last Update: 10/16 9:27 pm  

Three Tulsa City Councilors that opposed the river tax now back a resolution to support river development. The resolution calls for developing the west bank by 21st and Jackson without raising taxes.

Councilors Jack Henderson and Roscoe Turner support river development. They previously opposed a countywide sales tax increase to pay for development. Henderson says, "I've always contended that river development was a great idea. I've never had a problem with that and a lot of people are confused thinking I did. I had a problem with the taxes they were trying to associate it with." Turner added, "They gave me a tax I didn't want to vote on. And they gave me a county running our tax. I didn't want that." Henderson and Turner co-authored a resolution to support development on the west bank.

HCW, the company that developed Branson Landing, is talking to the city about building a similar concept at 21st and Jackson. Tulsa resident Patty Dake voted for the river plan. She's glad to hear the river might still be developed. Dake says, "We go other places like Branson or Texas for places to go shop and enjoy ourselves. And we don't have anything, and we need to bring more people to Tulsa." The city now has to figure out how to buy land on the west bank.

Councilors Turner, Henderson, and John Eagleton say the way to pay for this project is to use property taxes collected from a district that would be formed on the west side. The city council is expected to vote on the resolution Thursday.  

BFD, no different than any other development district.

[carltonplace]

Property tax? I thought a TIF was deferred sales tax.