Oklahoma lawmaker shows prejudice against Islam

[Wingnut]

Sorry, but I don't know anything about "taking out links".

[MichaelC]

Well shucks, here it is again.

http://www.aclu.org/religion/public/16254res20050302.html

That's just religious discrimination cases in 2002 through 2005.

[Wingnut]

Michael,
I did follow the link you posted. The Scout story was at the bottom of the list.
The reason I picked that story was because, being a long time volunteer Scouter, it hit close to home. The aclu has constantly tried to inhibit the Boy Scouts from promoting the program. That case affected every Scouting unit in the nation. So in effect, because one person didn't like it, everyone else has to suffer.
It's not my intent here to upset anyone and I have not flamed anyone. All I'm doing is making my point and joining in on a discussion and stating facts in a civil way. Sorry to have upset you.


By the way, did you order your Boy Scout popcorn to help support Scouting?

[MichaelC]

No, I'm not upset at all.  I must be missing something here.  No one will ever be 100% happy with the ACLU, but they're not the evil entity some portray it as.  That just comes with the territory though.  It's a dirty job, and they're doing it.

I ordered the trail mix, popcorn just wasn't doing it for me that particular day.  Haven't seen it yet.  Seems like it's been a long time ago, probably hasn't.

[swake]

quote:Originally posted by Wingnut

Michael,
I did follow the link you posted. The Scout story was at the bottom of the list.
The reason I picked that story was because, being a long time volunteer Scouter, it hit close to home. The aclu has constantly tried to inhibit the Boy Scouts from promoting the program. That case affected every Scouting unit in the nation. So in effect, because one person didn't like it, everyone else has to suffer.
It's not my intent here to upset anyone and I have not flamed anyone. All I'm doing is making my point and joining in on a discussion and stating facts in a civil way. Sorry to have upset you.


By the way, did you order your Boy Scout popcorn to help support Scouting?

I was a Boy Scout and I'm an adult leader with Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts both. I helped run the recruitment and sign up event at my daughter's public school for Girl Scouts and Boy Scouts have held several such events this year at my son's school.  

And while I may not agree with every case the ACLU takes on, I still can appreciate what they do.

[MichaelC]

Well now, kind of convenient having the Boy Scout pros around, considering my situation.  Mostly, I'm void of trail mix.  Can one you old boys clue me in as to when I might see my trail mix?  

Just wondering, want to make sure I'm not missing the young man.

[swake]

quote:Originally posted by MichaelC

Well now, kind of convenient having the Boy Scout pros around, considering my situation.  Mostly, I'm void of trail mix.  Can one you old boys clue me in as to when I might see my trail mix?  

Just wondering, want to make sure I'm not missing the young man.

Mid November, the forms were just submitted

[MichaelC]

Oh, right on.  Thank you.

[okiebybirth]

quote:Originally posted by Wingnut

Too bad the Boy Scouts were determined not to be discriminatory by the Supreme Court

The Boys Scouts are discriminatory, and the court never said they weren't.  What the court said is that they are a expressive organization; meaning they are free to express their discrimination because of their First Amendment right.  

http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/99-699.ZO.html

I disagree with your statement, but I wouldn't disagree that the Boy Scouts have done plenty of good in this country; Just not for everyone.

[Wingnut]

Thank you for supporting Scouting!!

[MichaelC]

Aw, no sweat.  I'm a sucker for food you can eat out of a can.

[bugo]

quote:Originally posted by MichaelC

quote:Originally posted by guido911

Oh, so I am like those persons in Little Dixie you criticize? You do not even know me. Oh, and since you decided to ignore my post to RW and resort to ad hominem, you are also a coward bomb thrower. Perhaps you should leave this thread, big people are communicating.

Wow, you're not even close.

I never criticized the folks of Clayton, OK, or you.  "Little Dixie" is their nickname, and apparently this politician was speaking to you.  Just relaying info, it's all there, nothing I said about Clayton is untrue.  Go check it out yourself.  And if you didn't like what the politician did, you've got a crazy way of showing it.  Crazy.

I'm originally from Mena, Arkansas, which is in the Ouachita Mountains, a stone's throw from the Oklahoma border and not too terribly far from Clayton.  I can say that racist attitudes still prevail in the area, and while they might not be more intense in this area than in other parts of the country, but they are definitely more out in the open.  The "n" word is a commonly-heard utterance in the area.  There were some racially motivated murders early last century, but I'm unaware of any more recent ones.  Mena is probably 95% white, although it was closer to 99% when I was a kid (a large percentage of these whites claim some Native American ancestry), and many of the town's residents are very proud of this.

[guido911]

quote:Originally posted by bugo

quote:Originally posted by MichaelC

quote:Originally posted by guido911

Oh, so I am like those persons in Little Dixie you criticize? You do not even know me. Oh, and since you decided to ignore my post to RW and resort to ad hominem, you are also a coward bomb thrower. Perhaps you should leave this thread, big people are communicating.

Wow, you're not even close.

I never criticized the folks of Clayton, OK, or you.  "Little Dixie" is their nickname, and apparently this politician was speaking to you.  Just relaying info, it's all there, nothing I said about Clayton is untrue.  Go check it out yourself.  And if you didn't like what the politician did, you've got a crazy way of showing it.  Crazy.

I'm originally from Mena, Arkansas, which is in the Ouachita Mountains, a stone's throw from the Oklahoma border and not too terribly far from Clayton.  I can say that racist attitudes still prevail in the area, and while they might not be more intense in this area than in other parts of the country, but they are definitely more out in the open.  The "n" word is a commonly-heard utterance in the area.  There were some racially motivated murders early last century, but I'm unaware of any more recent ones.  Mena is probably 95% white, although it was closer to 99% when I was a kid (a large percentage of these whites claim some Native American ancestry), and many of the town's residents are very proud of this.

How are the beheadings and suicide bombings out there in Mena? Are they as bad as they are in Clayton?

[MichaelC]

quote:Originally posted by bugo

I'm originally from Mena, Arkansas, which is in the Ouachita Mountains, a stone's throw from the Oklahoma border and not too terribly far from Clayton.  I can say that racist attitudes still prevail in the area, and while they might not be more intense in this area than in other parts of the country, but they are definitely more out in the open.  The "n" word is a commonly-heard utterance in the area.  There were some racially motivated murders early last century, but I'm unaware of any more recent ones.  Mena is probably 95% white, although it was closer to 99% when I was a kid (a large percentage of these whites claim some Native American ancestry), and many of the town's residents are very proud of this.

Yeah, it's definitely different down there.  Lovely country, but SE Oklahoma is dirt poor.  Quite some time ago, I saw a PBS special about Smithville, OK, how poor it was, no running water, some didn't have electricity.  I'm sure it's improved some.  But still, it's another world down there, some places are almost 3rd world.  

The people that like to live in that type of near solitude, are usually the ones that can't cope with the diversity that comes with higher populations, or people who have never seen a higher population.  Hence, racism is just more openly accepted.

Otherwise, it's great country.   The rivers are generally not polluted, great lakes, mountains, even access for hang-gliders.  I don't know the people down in that corner of Arkansas much, been through Mena over to Hot Springs a few times.  Camped out near Hatfield once a long time ago, on Mountain Fork.  Caught a freakin Pike, sure it was only 4 inches long, but I'd never seen one of those before.  Lovely country.  There's something about getting out of that sandy mud soil of NE Oklahoma, and seeing mountains and pines and real rocks in a clear river.

I sound like an advertisement, the last part anway.

[RecycleMichael]

Channel 6 coverage of today's story angle...

http://www.kotv.com/news/topstory/?id=138632

Interfaith Community Responds To Lawmakers
AP - 10/26/2007 9:38 AM - Updated 10/26/2007 12:49 PM
TULSA, Okla. (AP) -- Remarks by some state lawmakers who rejected Qurans offered as gifts from an ethnic advisory council promote Islamophobia, mistrust and hostility, members of Oklahoma's interfaith community said Friday.

Members also said Republican state Rep. Rex Duncan's comments this week about the Quran promoted "religious bigotry" and called upon Oklahomans to tell the Sand Springs lawmaker that his views don't represent those of Oklahomans or Americans.

Duncan refused to accept the Quran, saying most Oklahomans did not "endorse the idea of killing innocent women and children in the name of ideology."

He expressed those sentiments about the Quran in a letter copied to colleagues on Monday. By Wednesday evening, at least 24 legislators had notified the panel they would return the gift to a state panel on diversity. No state funds were used to purchase the books.

"Rep. Duncan has handled this situation in a way that is disrespectful of his fellow Americans," said the Rev. Marlin Lavanhar, president of the Tulsa Metropolitan Ministries Board of Trustees. "At the centennial of our state, we must all tell Rex Duncan that his discriminatory words and his unapologetic bigotry toward his fellow American citizens do not represent our great state or our blessed country."

Lavanhar was joined at a news conference by members of the Oklahoma chapter of the Council on American-Islamic Relations, Tulsa Interfaith Alliance and the Jewish Federation, among others.

"Today, I'm an American Muslim, speaking for our brothers," said David Bernstein, executive director of the Jewish Federation of Tulsa. "Hateful words inevitably lead to hateful actions."

Razi Hashmi, executive director of CAIR Oklahoma, said the Islamic faith condemns terrorism and acts of violence against the innocent, and at a time of international crisis, religious groups should be trying to understand each other, not "promoting mistrust and hostility."

On Friday, Duncan said he stood by his original comments, and added, "such hostile response to a refusal to accept a gift is un-American."

"It should be a wake-up call to all Oklahomans and all Americans that CAIR is a hostile organization," Duncan said. "And while they claim to be peaceful and respectful, their actions prove otherwise."

An estimated 30,000 to 50,000 Muslims live in Oklahoma.