Oklahoma lawmaker shows prejudice against Islam

[Wingnut]

quote: All those lovely Christians. You know, by your own logic, you and all Christianity are responsible for their actions.

The thing about Christianity is that I am responsible for my own actions just as they are for theirs. Each of us will stand before God alone, not as a group.

[MichaelC]

quote:Originally posted by Wingnut

The thing about Christianity is that I am responsible for my own actions just as they are for theirs. Each of us will stand before God alone, not as a group.

No sir, under the rules of "do unto others", you have it coming.  If every Muslim is to be responsible for every incident involving Islam, then you sir, as a Christian are responsible for every incident involving Christianity.  You wouldn't have it any other way, according to your Bible.

Apparently, you very much desire for people to focus on every foul aspect of your religion.  I'm cool with that, whatever you want.

[spoonbill]

quote:Originally posted by Wingnut

quote: It's the domestic "rebel"-types that we normally take seriously, and none of them so far have been Muslim.

I guess the Fort Dix 6 weren't muslim.
I guess the 11 students that got "lost" going to Wyoming but some were found in New York at a terrorist pizza parlor weren't muslim.
The guy that drove into a crowd of people in front of a Jewish Temple wasn't muslim.
The OU bomber that frequented a mosque in Norman that some of the 9/11 hijackers attended, who had hunderd of lbs of explosives in his apartment, that accidently discharged a bomb which had ball bearings in it wasn't muslim.
The 3 guys that had hunderds of cell phones and pics of Macinaw bridge that later confessed that the phones were to be sent over to be used for bombs weren't muslim.
Not!

Hey! Not all Muslems are terrorists, it's just that all terrorists are Muslems.  

So how do we stop terrorism?  

We attempt to diagnose the reason behind it.  

Our current diagnosis is rooted in the fact that the radical voices are louder than the moderate voices.  And the philosophy of the Islam is not contrary to the radical interpretation.

As is true in many aspects of society, the young and/or stupid tend to follow the loudest drum, no matter what the rhythm.

I don't believe it is possible to defeat a theocracy because the soldiers are following faith rather than a leader.  This faith's followers do not fear death or recognize life as sacred.

One of the most important beliefs in civilized religions is the sanctity of life.  In these faiths the penalty for murder and suicide is damnation,  when you exchange this penalty, for the reward of eternal life, free beer, 73 virgins, and a new Camero, you get an army willing to die for something better, rather than build something better.   After all, it's the easy way out, and the reward is guaranteed.  Unfortunately there are no exit interviews for terrorists to prove this wrong.

[Wingnut]

quote: No sir, under the rules of "do unto others", you have it coming. If every Muslim is to be responsible for every incident involving Islam, then you sir, as a Christian are responsible for every incident involving Christianity. You wouldn't have it any other way, according to your Bible.

Whoever said every muslim is responsible for everything else muslim??
How do you figure I'm responsible for everything bad done by all Christians??
I guess I'm just a slow learner here, but this is pointless. You are making no sense at all.

Spoonbill, very well said!

[MichaelC]

quote:Originally posted by Wingnut

I guess I'm just a slow learner here, but this is pointless.

Exactly.  You are hell bent on proving Islam to be evil, and in effect all Muslims saying they should speak louder, take responsibility for these actions.  You purposefully ignore (ignorant by definition) everything else, except Islam in regards to terrorism, and again, the only logical explanation for most of what you posted in regards to Islam, is Xenophobia, or more closely Islamophobia, Fear of Islam.  Which is not in itself bigotry, bigotry only comes into play if the Fear is fake, and you have other motives, like spreading simple hatred for example.

How else would you describe your fixation with everything negative about Islam?

quote:Not all Muslems are terrorists, it's just that all terrorists are Muslems.

quote:Spoonbill, very well said!

Yes, one of many simple lies that's fits exactly what you want to hear.  That forms to your preconceived notions.  Your ignorance of reality.  The decision to spread whatever disease it is you have.

You're right, it is pointless.

[guido911]

quote:Originally posted by MichaelC

Doesn't really matter does it?  Are you Christian?  And if so, is the Klan Christian?  Today, yesterday, doesn't matter.

Many will argue that the Klan isn't Christian, strictly denying rhetoric or actions (current or past) as "Christian."  It's more than typical for Christians to deny each other's Christianity outright, much less responsibility for their actions.

It's a matter of taking responsibility, people complain that Islam is not publicly denouncing Islam, when has Christianity publicly denounced Christianity?  I'd argue that it's not necessarily the responsibility of either.  Christianity isn't required to somehow come out in force against words or actions of other Christians.  Neither is Islam, or any other religion.

What a horrible answer. My question is where is your proof that the KKK is rooted in Christianity.

[MichaelC]

quote:Originally posted by guido911

What a horrible answer. My question is where is your proof that the KKK is rooted in Christianity.

Maybe you had a horrible question.  If you want me to answer a question, ask it and stop screwing around.  Just search anything on the internet for Klan literature, you'll find references.  Klan literature is inundated with Protestant references.

Or try this on for size.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ku_Klux_Klan

quote:Indiana's Klansmen represented a wide cross section of society: they were not disproportionately urban or rural, nor were they significantly more or less likely than other members of society to be from the working class, middle class, or professional ranks. Klansmen were Protestants, of course, but they cannot be described exclusively or even predominantly as fundamentalists. In reality, their religious affiliations mirrored the whole of white Protestant society, including those who did not belong to any church.

[perspicuity85]

quote:Originally posted by iplaw

Please.  These comments don't even pass the laugh test.  Use your common sense and analyze the empirical evidence before you make statements like these.

Lastly...generalize much?

In the future, you might try being specific.  I find it ironic that you provide a personal opinion  ("laugh test") as justification for explaining why my personal experience/opinion lacks empirical evidence.  Generalization?  Yeah, you got me there, but what about Duncan?  Do you not agree also that his statements were hasty generalizations?  I'm not justifying my own argumentative fallacies, I'm asking a serious question for the sake of judging whether or not you have a biased perspective.  Your next question: what gives me the right to judge your perspective?  Well, it is inherently obvious that if you don't find Duncan's comments to be hastily generalized, while concurrently finding my comments to be hastily generalized, you are heavily biased.

[perspicuity85]

quote:Originally posted by MichaelC

Our poll system is probably better than either of theirs.

http://www.tulsanow.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=7954

You've got to be kidding.  16 total people responded to the Tulsa Now forum.  Basic statistical laws have proven that sample size and error are inversely proportional.

[MichaelC]

quote:Originally posted by perspicuity85

You've got to be kidding.  16 total people responded to the Tulsa Now forum.  Basic statistical laws have proven that sample size and error are inversely proportional.

I said "system".  As in, it's less likely for someone to vote twice on our "system."

Otherwise yes, I'm kidding.  I got to be both serious and a smart@$$ at the same time, nothing new, but that's how like it.

[Wingnut]

More fuel for the fire....from the front lines..

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Read.aspx?GUID=2306E1FD-A88C-4C24-A9B1-34BB2847F9F4

[kakie]

Michael C, would you clarify what you wrote in an earlier post?  Please, dont get defensive because we can't learn from you when you do this.  Thanks.

"Most Islamic organization are busy fighting to exist right now, within the law."

What do you mean "within the law"? What is the problem?

"As long as Christian organizations attack Islam, by the creation of "Islamo-Fascist Week", political or religious rallies, TV shows that are only used as propaganda for the destruction of Islam; You can expect a fight."

Islamo-Facist Week has to do with the strick interpretation of Islam that calls for stoning people to death, killing infidels, taxing non-Muslim with the tax of inferority (9.29) and so on.  Wouldn't Muslims who don't practice this type of Islam join in with everyone to help bring pressure on the world to stop the practice of this version of Islam?  Your remark is very similar to what CAIR says - its an attack on Islam.  This is worrisome because your statement therefore seem to condone this version.  Are you a Muslim, Michael?

"No, you don't have to accept anything as part of a Religion. Most people, in this country, have enough sense to realize that infractions in the name of Christianity are the exception, rather than the rule. Though many choose not to give the same consideration to Islam. It is discrimination by definition."

Here again you are denying that a very strick version of Islam gives rise to jihadists and there a several world-wide Islamic organization trying to take over regions of the world.  They have infiltrated the U.S.  We are aware of this infiltration.

And what is done in warfare, is entirely separate from Christianity or Islam. Beheadings, kidnappings, torture, bombings, or even a Christian US Soldier slaughtering an Islamic family for no defensible reason. No one makes the judgment that all of US forces are evil or that it was done in the name of Christianity, yet you seem to be particularly interested in any incident that can stereotype Islam.

Again, you lump all of Islam with the strick version and call it an attack on all of Islam or stereotying it. This is just a diversinary tactic that fails to address the problem that strick, or consevative, or literal, or primitive Islam causes.  You are not addressing the fact that everyday several terrorists in the name of ISLAM kill people in different parts of the world. Everyday, Michael. Aren't they really the warriors of Islam who are promised a grade higher in paradise as stated in the Quran? Doesn't Chapter 9 in the Quran cover how to wage a war, or Chapter 8 or CHapter 31?  Are you going to deny this is in the Quran?  

I've heard Muslims say there is no such thing as a moderate Muslim - you are either a Muslim or you are not.  Is this true?

"All that needs to happen, is less complaining, more understanding that Islam is diverse and just like Christianity, the number of criminals committing crimes in the name of the religion is small. And religions are used as tools by clerics and political leaders and strong-men for some other goal. It's never the fault of the Religion itself."

How many mosques in the U.S. do you think are under the influence of either the Saudi's or the Muslim Brotherhood?  There is documented evidence that supports what I state.

[rwarn17588]

<kakie wrote:

Islamo-Facist Week has to do with the strick interpretation of Islam that calls for stoning people to death, killing infidels, taxing non-Muslim with the tax of inferority (9.29) and so on.

<end clip>

Islamofascism Week exists solely to enrich David Horowitz, nothing more. He trots out the boogeyman when he needs the money, and has been known to simply make sh*t up.

And strick is strictly spelled "strict."

[jne]

Kakie, You feign this open-minded, "I just want to learn" position. Would you just admit that you are scared to death of Islam? There is nothing anyone can say to change your position. I do hope that more Muslims will take a stand against violence committed in the name of their religion. Thats not the point here. Anyone can see that the statements Duncan made were mean spirited and/or ignorant generalizations about the people who believe in one of the worlds largest religions. And now many other lawmakers are rolling in the same dirt.  Its an embarrassment to our state.  

Remind me never to have coffee with Kakie.

[Wingnut]

quote: Islamofascism Week exists solely to enrich David Horowitz, nothing more. He trots out the boogeyman when he needs the money, and has been known to simply make sh*t up.

Documentation, please.