Oklahoma lawmaker shows prejudice against Islam

[perspicuity85]

quote:Originally posted by kakie

Let's not forget that the book was presented to these legislators as the exact word of GOD.

What makes you say that?  The Quran was given to them as a piece of literature, so they might better understand the culture of Islamic people.  There was nothing oppressive or aggressive about it.  Honestly, in Oklahoma, Bible Belt Central, do really think Islamic people are in a position to force their religion on others?  Get a clue people!
Duncan's direct quote was: "Most Oklahomans do not endorse the idea of killing innocent women and children in the name of ideology."  If you want people that viciously stereotype others they way Duncan does to represent you, then you must also viciously stereotype others.  There is an eerie similarity between the purveyors of  anti-American sentiment in the Middle East and the purveyors of anti-Muslim sentiment in America's Bible-belt.

[Conan71]

quote:Originally posted by MichaelC

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

quote:Originally posted by MichaelC

There's plenty of them around, with a proper boiler, we could provide energy to this town for a year.

Let me run the Btu calcs into megawatts on that.  I'll get back to you later... []

Ha.  I probably need to trim that back a little bit.  Maybe not the entire town, how long could we power an acorn light?  

Maybe we could put it in Patric's front yard.

[]

I have a little 5 HP HRT boiler which would be perfect for that, I might even be able to power a few more acorn lights on his block, people could stop by and throw leaves in it, dog ****, oily rags...

You know if Duncan and others had just kept their mouths shut this would have been nothing more than a fart in the wind.

[rwarn17588]

What Michael Bates and kakie and guido seem to be missing or conveniently omitting in this conversation is that radical Islam (please note the "radical" part) has no chance of taking hold in America in any meaningful way.

Muslims make up less than 1 percent of the U.S. population -- a group which, incidentally, has been shown in studies to assimilate extremely well into American society.

Radical Muslims make up a small percentage of an already-tiny group.

So why the hell do a few people fear a certain deranged segment that's a microscopic portion of the population? Why have so many Americans turned into 'fraidy cats about lil ol' Islam here, when there are many other people and issues to be genuinely fearful about?

Doesn't it occur to anyone that being courteous and respectful would be a better way to assimilate American Muslims -- and thus blunt the possibility of radicalism -- than to act like sanctimonious jerks?

[Conan71]

quote:Originally posted by rwarn17588

What Michael Bates and kakie and guido seem to be missing or conveniently omitting in this conversation is that radical Islam (please note the "radical" part) has no chance of taking hold in America in any meaningful way.

Muslims make up less than 1 percent of the U.S. population -- a group which, incidentally, has been shown in studies to assimilate extremely well into American society.

Radical Muslims make up a small percentage of an already-tiny group.

So why the hell do a few people fear a certain deranged segment that's a microscopic portion of the population? Why have so many Americans turned into 'fraidy cats about lil ol' Islam here, when there are many other people and issues to be genuinely fearful about?

Doesn't it occur to anyone that being courteous and respectful would be a better way to assimilate American Muslims -- and thus blunt the possibility of radicalism -- than to act like sanctimonious jerks?

I don't think it's that simple when you are talking to the American psyche.  It only took 15 muslims to kill about 3800 Americans in one day.

I by no means underestimate the threat of loose cannons in any society or religion, but I can't live in fear of it.  There's a bunch of people brought up in Christian households who randomly murder others every day.  

Ostensibly, more Americans die at the hands of  non-muslims than muslims every day, except for 9/11/01.

[MichaelC]

That's why it's so distasteful, this guy purposefully sent a letter to the legislature announcing his "explanation" for why he rejected it, and then goes on to be interviewed.  It looks designed from the beginning to be PR.  No one would have been talking about this had he rejected or accepted it, in silence.  Of course, that's exactly why he was loud about it all.

The rejection wasn't really that big of a deal, that it was used as PR says tons about his constituency, and probably a good portion of this state.

[swake]

If I may, I'd like to quote one of our own, who purports himself a Christian:

Friendly Bear:

Quote:
Make the followers of these Islam Cults fear the Men of the West. Make their women and children tremble when our helicopters swoop over their hovels. Death is coming for their men today......... Death from Above.

http://www.tulsanow.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=7857&whichpage=2

All Sons of Radical Islam must DIE! What do we do with their women? They breed future Jihadists.........Ideas?

http://www.tulsanow.org/forum/active.asp

Maybe we need some more understanding and education between ourselves and Muslims. Just maybe.

[Wilbur]

quote:Originally posted by jne

From The World:

According to the governor's council, other Republican representatives declining a copy of the Quran are David Derby of Owasso, Guy Liebmann of Oklahoma City, Scott Martin of Norman, Mark McCullough of Sapulpa, Mike Reynolds of Oklahoma City, and Susan Winchester of Chickasha.

This is just sad.

Curious as to why you left the democrat(s) off the list??

But I agree, it is very sad.... for people in both parties!

[guido911]

More persons with opinions different than Michael C and perspicuity (I mean bigots) have picked up on the story:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1915839/posts

[rwarn17588]

<conan wrote:

I don't think it's that simple when you are talking to the American psyche. It only took 15 muslims to kill about 3800 Americans in one day.

<end clip>

I'm not disagreeing with you, Conan. I'm just observing how the reaction to Muslims in America seems disproportionate.

What happened was that two dozen religious anarchists took advantage of a porous security system in the U.S. airline industry. And bin Laden had no idea the Twin Towers were going to collapse -- nobody did. What was an act of mass murder unwittingly became an act of bigger mass murder.

Twenty-four hours after the deed, I was ready for everything to go back to normal. I wasn't about to change plans for my upcoming Route 66 trip. Play the baseball games, play the football games, open the markets.

Yeah, it was apparent a few buildings were destroyed and that a few thousand were dead. But America had faced far, far worse and widespread disasters in its history. I figured the best way to show the world our resolve was to go back and do things we Americans did, as usual. Re-establish our routines, ASAP.

But no, a lot of people seemed to be paralyzed with grief or fear. Instead of bucking up, everything ground to a standstill for a week and more. I didn't understand it then, and I don't understand it now.

And we STILL have people who can't get their heads back in the game. We STILL have people -- including a large number in government -- acting like irrational fools or frightened children over an infinitesimal part of the population, of which nearly all want to just get along, anyway.

C'mon, folks. Suck it up, be vigilant, and live your lives. Quit acting like there's an evil Muslim behind that bush or under your bed. Act like Americans.

End of sermon.

[MichaelC]

quote:Originally posted by guido911

More persons with opinions different than Michael C and perspicuity (I mean bigots) have picked up on the story:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1915839/posts

I actually agree with you here.

That website you posted, seems to be full of bigots.

Good call.

[jne]

quote:Originally posted by Wilbur

quote:Originally posted by jne

From The World:

According to the governor's council, other Republican representatives declining a copy of the Quran are David Derby of Owasso, Guy Liebmann of Oklahoma City, Scott Martin of Norman, Mark McCullough of Sapulpa, Mike Reynolds of Oklahoma City, and Susan Winchester of Chickasha.

This is just sad.

Curious as to why you left the democrat(s) off the list??

But I agree, it is very sad.... for people in both parties!

I didn't leave anything out of the report.  This was copied from the Tulsa World website. More legislators were added to the list in a later report.

[MichaelC]

Yeah, there's up to 16 now.  One, Nancy Riley, covers much of Tulsa county including South Tulsa, Jenks, all the way up to Sand Springs, Mannford.

[jne]

Here is the latest list:

Sen. Cliff Branan, R-Oklahoma City
Sen. Randy Brogdon, R-Owasso
Sen. Bill Brown, R-Broken Arrow
Sen. Todd Lamb, R-Edmond
Sen. David Myers,R-Ponca City
Sen. Nancy Riley, D-Tulsa
Sen. Mike Schulz, R-Altus
Rep. Gary Banz, R-Midwest City
Rep. Doug Cox, R-Grove
Rep. David Derby, R-Owasso
Rep. Rex Duncan, R-Sand Springs
Rep. George Faught, R-Muskogee
Rep. Guy Liebmann, R-Oklahoma City
Rep. Scott Martin, R-Norman
Rep. Mark McCullough, R-Sapulpa
Rep. Mike Reynolds, R-Oklahoma City
Rep. Susan Winchester, R-Chickasha

There is your 1 D and sadly enough, from right here in Tulsa.  She'll be getting a call from me tomorrow.

[MichaelBates]

quote:Originally posted by rwarn17588

What Michael Bates and kakie and guido seem to be missing or conveniently omitting in this conversation is that radical Islam (please note the "radical" part) has no chance of taking hold in America in any meaningful way.

All I did was clarify your statement that the Qurans were offered to the legislators by a "local Muslim-American group."

No one here has a problem with a governmental body distributing religious texts? Or with the governor creating a special council to promote the interests of a specific religion? I'm surprised.

Radical Islam has no chance of taking hold? Tell that to the moderate Muslims who founded a mosque in a Chicago suburb 50 years ago, only to be pushed aside by increasingly radical leadership.

[MichaelC]

quote:Originally posted by MichaelBates

No one here has a problem with a governmental body distributing religious texts? Or with the governor creating a special council to promote the interests of a specific religion? I'm surprised.

Ummmmm, yes, absolutely, if it's gov't funded.  It's not.

And part deux, doesn't matter how many times you say it, how you spin it on nut ball radio, that's not what this council does by definition.  So no.  Every WASP organization has somebody speaking for them, there are other councils for other ethnic groups.  Why should we exclude the Near East/Middle East, or prohibit them from spreading documents representative of a culture?

All you're saying is, that we should be exclusive of Islam, and make damn sure Muslims aren't allowed to do something that anyone else is allowed to do.  With their own money.  You're attacking the rights of American citizens, specifically because they follow Islam.  That, by definition, is bigotry.

And your doing it to defend a politician who did nothing wrong, except for the fact that he's a typical pandering moron.  Nothing new there, but...