Pro-illegals file another law suit against HB1804

[jamesrage]

Hopefully we have some decent judges that will toss this frivolous lawsuit out too.


http://www.fox23.com/mediacenter/local.aspx?videoId=22506@video.fox23.com&navCatId=5


(edited post to add this)
http://www.fox23.com/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=66caa182-716a-479d-a3fb-77fe7ee6d6e4

quote: (TULSA, Okla.) October 26 – There's new information tonight about who is suing the state over a controversial illegal immigration bill.

There are now seventeen parties suing the governor for signing House Bill 1804.

The plaintiffs now include leaders from two Hispanic churches in Tulsa, a restaurant chain owner, and the state and national chapters of a Latino clergy organization.

Leaders in the Hispanic community have been fighting House Bill 1804 since it was passed.  It requires legal documentation for immigrants to live and work in the state.

Leaders in Tulsa's Hispanic community say the law has already forced illegal immigrants to leave Tulsa.  In the lawsuit they say the bill essentially evicts illegals.  They worry businesses will close and more families will have to leave.

A judge has set a preliminary hearing for the lawsuit on October 31.  The judge can then decide whether to grant a preliminary injunction that would temporarily prevent the law from going into effect on November 1.

[inteller]

yeah, I love their claims this time.  "well these people were evicted because of this law, so they have suffered harm"

Well no **** sherlock, if they are ILLEGAL, then the landlord is just doing what the law will require.

[Conan71]

"Leaders in Tulsa's Hispanic community say the law has already forced illegal immigrants to leave Tulsa.  In the lawsuit they say the bill essentially evicts illegals."

Um, yeah.  That was pretty much the idea.  I wonder if they are going to keep spouting their "ethnic cleansing" crap. [xx(]

[jamesrage]

quote:Originally posted by inteller

yeah, I love their claims this time.  "well these people were evicted because of this law, so they have suffered harm"

Well no **** sherlock, if they are ILLEGAL, then the landlord is just doing what the law will require.

Perhaps speeders,drug dealers,murderers and other people who break the law can claim they suffered harm too because of laws on the books.

[KingMutt]

Just a few observations and then you all can make your hateful comments (which just proves my point[]):

There will be multiple lawsuits filed against HB 1804.

Althought I doubt if Orta and his crowd will be successful.  Other groups, with a little more sophistication, will challenge this law.

It probably will be overturned, just like every other one of these laws has been through out the country.

The major players, the big businessmen (not just the Hispanic or small time businesspeople), the MAJOR business people, who make tons of money from these illegals, have not yet entered the fray.  Once they do, the political pressure against the anti immigrant stance will intensify.  So far these people have not made their voices heard, but they will.

These illegals are here because they do jobs Americans do not want to do.  The argument that they depress wages is a cop out. The have come because there are openings in the job market. Our economy is going to suffer.  They contribute more than use (tax dollars, whether through fake SSNs or just sales taxes vs. services)>

Finally, we Americans, are understandably upset about what is a real problem, people just coming in from a foreign country without any kind of processing.  But do we need to sound as HATEFUL as we do? Some you guys say to people you disagree with "Leave with the aliens!"  Aside from sounding really really stupid, who are you to tell another American to leave the country?

And what about the US Citizen kids?  Don't they have rights?  I mean forget about the parents or their crimes, what about the US Citizen children?

Just like on the comments on the Tulsa World website everytime there is a story.  People sound like ignorant red neck asses. This problem needs to be solved in humane way using common sense, not hate filled thetoric. (That is true for nutbags like Rivera and Orta too).

As it is, we sound like backwards donkey junior klansmen....

[Conan71]

Mutt, you are behind the curve on this discussion, I recommend you go back and read over every discussion there's been on this over the last year.  You aren't going to gain a sympathetic ear as long as you refer to others as rednecks and Jr. Klansmen.  That's Orta-style rhetoric.

I seriously doubt you are going to see lawsuits from employers, landlords and the like.

U.S. citizen children? You mean the anchor babies? [B)]

[Rico]

I just have the facts to speak for me... That.. and History.

History will tell you that this and other movements like this are temporary..

For those that believe they are any thing other than that...

Vaya con Dios...!

Read... If you can find the time within your pursuit of "Utopia"... This article regarding the same topic some 50+ years ago.



George W. Bush isn't the first Republican president to face a full-blown immigration crisis on the US-Mexican border.

Fifty-three years ago, when newly elected Dwight Eisenhower moved into the White House, America's southern frontier was as porous as a spaghetti sieve. As many as 3 million illegal migrants had walked and waded northward over a period of several years for jobs in California, Arizona, Texas, and points beyond.

President Eisenhower cut off this illegal traffic. He did it quickly and decisively with only 1,075 United States Border Patrol agents - less than one-tenth of today's force. The operation is still highly praised among veterans of the Border Patrol.

Although there is little to no record of this operation in Ike's official papers, one piece of historic evidence indicates how he felt. In 1951, Ike wrote a letter to Sen. William Fulbright (D) of Arkansas. The senator had just proposed that a special commission be created by Congress to examine unethical conduct by government officials who accepted gifts and favors in exchange for special treatment of private individuals.

General Eisenhower, who was gearing up for his run for the presidency, said "Amen" to Senator Fulbright's proposal. He then quoted a report in The New York Times, highlighting one paragraph that said: "The rise in illegal border-crossing by Mexican 'wetbacks' to a current rate of more than 1,000,000 cases a year has been accompanied by a curious relaxation in ethical standards extending all the way from the farmer-exploiters of this contraband labor to the highest levels of the Federal Government."

{snip}

Although an on-and-off guest-worker program for Mexicans was operating at the time, farmers and ranchers in the Southwest had become dependent on an additional low-cost, docile, illegal labor force of up to 3 million, mostly Mexican, laborers.

According to the Handbook of Texas Online, published by the University of Texas at Austin and the Texas State Historical Association, this illegal workforce had a severe impact on the wages of ordinary working Americans. The Handbook Online reports that a study by the President's Commission on Migratory Labor in Texas in 1950 found that cotton growers in the Rio Grande Valley, where most illegal aliens in Texas worked, paid wages that were "approximately half" the farm wages paid elsewhere in the state.

Profits from illegal labor led to the kind of corruption that apparently worried Eisenhower. Joseph White, a retired 21-year veteran of the Border Patrol, says that in the early 1950s, some senior US officials overseeing immigration enforcement "had friends among the ranchers," and agents "did not dare" arrest their illegal workers.

Walt Edwards, who joined the Border Patrol in 1951, tells a similar story. He says: "When we caught illegal aliens on farms and ranches, the farmer or rancher would often call and complain [to officials in El Paso]. And depending on how politically connected they were, there would be political intervention. That is how we got into this mess we are in now."

{snip}

During the 1950s, however, this "Good Old Boy" system changed under Eisenhower - if only for about 10 years.

In 1954, Ike appointed retired Gen. Joseph "Jumpin' Joe" Swing, a former West Point classmate and veteran of the 101st Airborne, as the new INS commissioner.

Influential politicians, including Sen. Lyndon B. Johnson (D) of Texas and Sen. Pat McCarran (D) of Nevada, favored open borders, and were dead set against strong border enforcement, Brownell said. But General Swing's close connections to the president shielded him - and the Border Patrol - from meddling by powerful political and corporate interests.

One of Swing's first decisive acts was to transfer certain entrenched immigration officials out of the border area to other regions of the country where their political connections with people such as Senator Johnson would have no effect.

Then on June 17, 1954, what was called "Operation Wetback" began. Because political resistance was lower in California and Arizona, the roundup of aliens began there. Some 750 agents swept northward through agricultural areas with a goal of 1,000 apprehensions a day. By the end of July, over 50,000 aliens were caught in the two states. Another 488,000, fearing arrest, had fled the country.

By mid-July, the crackdown extended northward into Utah, Nevada, and Idaho, and eastward to Texas.

By September, 80,000 had been taken into custody in Texas, and an estimated 500,000 to 700,000 illegals had left the Lone Star State voluntarily.

Unlike today, Mexicans caught in the roundup were not simply released at the border, where they could easily reenter the US. To discourage their return, Swing arranged for buses and trains to take many aliens deep within Mexico before being set free.

Tens of thousands more were put aboard two hired ships, the Emancipation and the Mercurio. The ships ferried the aliens from Port Isabel, Texas, to Vera Cruz, Mexico, more than 500 miles south.

The sea voyage was "a rough trip, and they did not like it," says Don Coppock, who worked his way up from Border Patrolman in 1941 to eventually head the Border Patrol from 1960 to 1973.

{snip}

One day in 1954, Border Patrol agent Walt Edwards picked up a newspaper in Big Spring, Texas, and saw some startling news. The government was launching an all-out drive to oust illegal aliens from the United States.

The orders came straight from the top, where the new president, Dwight Eisenhower, had put a former West Point classmate, Gen. Joseph Swing, in charge of immigration enforcement.

General Swing's fast-moving campaign soon secured America's borders - an accomplishment no other president has since equaled. Illegal migration had dropped 95 percent by the late 1950s.

{snip}

[USRufnex]

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

Mutt, you are behind the curve on this discussion, I recommend you go back and read over every discussion there's been on this over the last year.  You aren't going to gain a sympathetic ear as long as you refer to others as rednecks and Jr. Klansmen.  That's Orta-style rhetoric.

I seriously doubt you are going to see lawsuits from employers, landlords and the like.

U.S. citizen children? You mean the anchor babies? [B)]

No, conan.  the bigots and racists and xenophobes of this state who passed this law... those are the ones behind the curve on this one... and the people at the DMV who are gonna treat anybody with a spanish accent like crap... shameful.

Pass a guest worker law and be done with it... please.

Stop being hypocrits.

MUTT-- As it is, we sound like backwards donkey junior klansmen....

Ditto.

[sgrizzle]

They are paying taxes through fake SSN's?

Wow, that would be dumb. Also considering many of these work as contract labor on a W-9 instead of having witholding taken through a W-4, they contribute nothing. Also explains the stacks of unopened W-9's I've seen before.

[cannon_fodder]

2 points:

1)  If you are against HB1804 you are not necessarily "pro-illegals."  Aspects of this legislation are draconian and over bearing even on charities.  What's more, the state has done a poor job explaining the legislation to the offended (Hispanic) population.  In its enforcement it probably will not be a big deal, but the handling of the PR has been horrible.

2) The previous lawsuit was not thrown out as frivolous.  No ruling was made on the merits.  The issue was simply not ripe for a challenge as the filing parties failed to prove injury and thus had no standing.

said it before... will keep saying it:  Until we fix our underlying immigration system (and policy) a mere law enforcement approach is a band aide.  Probably too expensive to be worth the trouble.  Which admittedly sucks, but I'm guessing this law changes nothing in the long run.

[jamesrage]

quote:Originally posted by USRufnex



No, conan.  the bigots and racists and xenophobes of this state who passed this law... those are the ones behind the curve on this one... and the people at the DMV who are gonna treat anybody with a spanish accent like crap... shameful.

Pass a guest worker law and be done with it... please.

Stop being hypocrits.

MUTT-- As it is, we sound like backwards donkey junior klansmen....

Ditto.

So wanting our immigration laws enforced makes one a bigot,xenophobe or hispaniphobe?I guess all our other laws makes us prejudice to other groups of people who break the law as well.

It is the people with common sense that passed HB1804. Because common sense dictated that if the feds are not going to do anything about it except for a few token raids every time they want to pass a amnesty like bill. Then common sense says the states should step to do their part.


Only a retard spews the racist, xenophobe, hispani-phobia and anti-immigrant lies. Because no one believes the lies of racism,xenophobia,hispani-phobia and anti-immigration spewed by pro-illegals not even the pro-illegals themselves who spew the lies of racism.The only reason your ilk spew those lies is to intimidate people into silence because pro-illegals do not have a leg to stand on in this issue.So you have to make up lies in order to try to win.

IF any one is racist it is the pro-illegals who lump all immigrants regardless if they are legal or illegal and all Hispanics regardless if they were born here,legally here or illegally here into the same boat.The only other people to lump all immigrants and all Hispanics in the same boat as illegals are the racist.Do you honestly think those people appreciate being lumped into the same group as people who came here and stay illegally?

[jamesrage]

quote:Originally posted by cannon_fodder


said it before... will keep saying it:  Until we fix our underlying immigration system (and policy) a mere law enforcement approach is a band aide.  Probably too expensive to be worth the trouble.  Which admittedly sucks, but I'm guessing this law changes nothing in the long run.

The problem with illegal immigration is the fact the laws are not being enforced.If the law was being enforced we would not be having this discussion right now.A mere law enforcement is what is needed.If illegals realize that only immigrants Oklahoma is friendly to is legal immigrants then illegals will leave.If Oklahoma's law is successful then other states will enact similar laws.When those laws are enacted in other states the few sanctuary states will clime aboard too.

[NellieBly]

Talk about spewing -- I think I just got hit in the eye with your spittle.

[MichaelC]

This thing is not anywhere near over.  It'll be challenged on various grounds until 1) the US Supreme Court rules on it, 2) all Hispanics move away including American citizens, OR 3) the law is repealed or becomes an unenforceable relic.

The law was built on an unstable footing to begin with.  It's potentially contradictory to other laws, which it can not currently supersede, on multiple grounds.

This law, if it's enforced, will even be challenged on Civil Rights grounds as American citizens are on the receiving end of discriminatory practices.  And that's the least of the law's problems.

[KingMutt]

Jamesrage   your name fits you are sure full of rage. And it is exacty that rage that makes me use terms like redneck and Jr. klansmen.

You don't need to be so damned HATEFUL.  That is exactly what I am talking about.  There is no need to be an a**hole.

And Conan, you can call them anchor babies, but they still are Citizens, and until Congress changes that, they are still just as American as you or me or your kid.

It's like all reason goes out the door on this issue.

Cannon fodder is right, just because a person disagrees with this law doesn't make them pro-illegal.

Sorry I don't get red eyed full of RAGE when I think about it.  I'd rather see an orderly, humane solution, that takes into account the economic implications, while still prorecting our national security and the rights of law abiding citizens.