Pro-illegals file another law suit against HB1804

[Hometown]

KingMutt, thank you for fighting the good fight.  Many Oklahomans are at the beginning of a learning curve on this issue.  Hopefully as they gain information they will gain some balance.  

It wasn't that long ago that very similar remarks were being made about Irish immigrants.  Of course Tulsa's largest ethnic group is Irish, so you can see that the Irish prevailed despite the racism they faced.

[TeeDub]

I really didn't care about this bill until I heard on the news that it was "ethnic cleansing."   After that statement I want every illegal to be thrown out of this state.   If you are going to compare the cessation of benefits to someone who can't be bothered to immigrate legally to genocide, then your values are just a little too far from reality.

As for the statement of "no one will do those jobs" well, the jobs will get done, and we may have to pay more, but don't think that no one will build houses or mow lawns.  (Yes, I realize that there are many more things that illegals work on.)   To wrap yourselves in the "Americans won't" blanket and believe that the economy will come to a standstill is about as stupid as comparing genocide to HB 1804.

As far as their children, I think we should allow them to leave their children.   Mutt is right in that they are citizens.   They can be wards of the state until they are 18, at which time they will be adults and can go visit their parents back in Mexico.   Regardless of children, the parents have NO rights to stay here.

We have a system in place to become legal.   Just because you don't want to use it is not my problem.   Just because you think the law sucks, again, not my problem.   I hate speed limits, not your problem...   But the law is the law...  And I am not in favor of either breaking it, or changing it "retroactively."

[MichaelC]

If they had passed a law saying "All people of Hispanic descent are to be deported immediately,"  that would fit the definition of Ethnic Cleaning for sure.  It's not all about murder, Ethnic Cleansing by definition is the "removal of ethnic groups", regardless of means.

As is, the law forces people, the bulk of which are the same ethnicity, to be deprived of property and to be deported.  Outside of a few details, it's fairly close to the concept of Ethnic Cleansing.  Close enough that you'll keep hearing the term.  It's not going away.

[buckeye]

I've only read summaries of the law, but haven't seen anything offensive so far.

What aspects are offensive?  Seems to me that it provides for deportation of those who are here illegally and the only real issue is whether there are conflicts with regards to Federal vs. State responsibility.

ethic cleansing
the Klan
"ignorant red neck asses"
bigots and racists and xenophobes

Give me a break.  This does nothing to solve problems and does everything to make the situation worse.  I'm hard pressed to conjure a more hateful ensemble of ideas.  It's an old, dirty, political trick to associate your opponents' views with something universally recognized as evil.  See the "VOTE YES" campaign.  "It's for the children and the future.  Do you like those ideas or are you a terrible monster?  THIS IS THE ONLY WAY."

It's also a great disservice to generations of immigrants that did their utmost to enter the country lawfully and begin the process of melting into the culture.

[MichaelC]

quote:Originally posted by buckeye

ethic cleansing
the Klan
"ignorant red neck asses"
bigots and racists and xenophobes

You're still going to hear those terms.  If a person has a fixation on illegals, which happen to be primarily Hispanic, very few will believe that the fixation is purely of a legal nature.  Many of the supporters are the same ones that want to see Islam banned from public discourse, and funding cut to services primarily used by minorities.  None of this is going away, it's a hard battle for sure, but it's up to you to define yourself, or not.

[KingMutt]

I apologize to everyone and anyone if I have offended them.

What I meant to say, is that the hateful talk sounds like the stereotypes of "rednecks" etc.
It's kinda like you see a certain kind of person on Springer, they fit the bill of what you expect.  The same for the hateful diatribes, you figure these folks "fit the bill."

And again, my main problem is with those anti-illegals who say "Get out" to Americans who are sympathetic to the aliens, and have no compassion for the US Citizen children.  To me these people are total hypocrites and most be motivated by something dark and ugly.

Otherwise, I agree illegal immigration is a problem.  And in case you did not catch it the first time, I am NO FAN of Orta and Company.

MichaelC seems to be on point.

[buckeye]

It's very unfortunate to think that those terms will continue to be used.  The cry on the anti-bill side is against stereotyping but condoning the use of divisive, stereotype language as weapons against their opponents?  It's impossible to take that kind of "debate" seriously.  I'd still really like to hear some sober discussion about the issue, exactly why it makes people uncomfortable as well as suggested alternatives.

[Conan71]

My prediction is that like just about every immigration law passed so far in this country that enforcement will be lacking, and life will go on as normal.  After awhile illegal immigrants will figure out we were just kidding and will return quietly.

[Hometown]

While the Latin community in Tulsa is relatively new, the U.S. has a long history of using migrant labor from south of the border.  We have depended on that migrant labor for over 100 years now.  Our Latin friends and neighbors are well known to people who live in Border States.  Add to that the deep cultural ties between the U.S. and its Latin neighbors, and the rapid assimilation of Latinos into our families and you see a rich association that will stretch far into the future.  

Local anti-immigrants will be a footnote in a chapter on Oklahoma's racist past.  You know, the 1921 riot, Jim Crow, HB 1804.  Mark my word.

Friends of mine can testify that before I returned to Tulsa, I spent time researching Tulsa's Latin community.  It was learning that Tulsa had a Latin community that was the deciding factor in my returning to Tulsa.

Of course, I am deeply ashamed of the way Oklahoma has carried on in regards to immigration.  And I've backed that up with financial support for the legal actions challenging HB1804.  I urge other people of conscience to actively resist HB 1804 and its supporters.

[wenwilwa]

quote:Originally posted by jamesrage

It is the people with common sense that passed HB1804. Because common sense dictated that if the feds are not going to do anything about it except for a few token raids every time they want to pass a amnesty like bill. Then common sense says the states should step to do their part.

Here is a link to the new law in case anyone would like to read the text.

I became very concerned with Parts A and B of Section 3:

quote:A.  It shall be unlawful for any person to transport, move, or attempt to transport within the United States any alien knowing or in reckless disregard of the fact that the alien has come to, entered, or remained in the United States in violation of law, in furtherance of the illegal presence of the alien in the United States.


C.  Any person violating the provisions of subsections A or B of this section shall, upon conviction, be guilty of a felony punishable by imprisonment in the custody of the Department of Corrections for not less than one (1) year, or by a fine of not less than One Thousand Dollars ($1,000.00), or by both such fine and imprisonment.

Apparently, I am of the ilk of felons, according to this law.

Before confessing my "crime", I'll back up a bit...

I do a lot of volunteer work in the area where I live (an area with a large Hispanic population), including volunteering for my neighborhood organization and serving on the board of a non-profit foundation that provides social services in this part of town. I have recently written and received a grant to provide English classes to parents whose children go to the elementary school in our neighborhood. (The grant money is coming from a private family foundation, lest anyone worry that public dollars are being used to teach my neighbors English.)

The English classes are held at a local church where we can provide childcare during the classes. Since most of the parents do not have cars, I will occasionally give one or two of them a ride from the elementary school to the church. I've even been known to pick up a whole carload of parents in the church van on a couple of occasions.

By my reading of Section 3, Part A, my actions could be worthy of a felony charge come this Thursday.

Jamesrage, the vague wording of HB 1804 makes me -- an ordinary American citizen associating with her neighbors, doing private volunteer work in the community -- feel as though I could be charged with a felony for my work. I do not agree that it is "people with common sense" that passed the legislation.

[Double A]

quote:Originally posted by sgrizzle

They are paying taxes through fake SSN's?

Wow, that would be dumb. Also considering many of these work as contract labor on a W-9 instead of having witholding taken through a W-4, they contribute nothing. Also explains the stacks of unopened W-9's I've seen before.

Bingo. Legal workers are robbing our treasuries through 1099 abuse/worker misclassification, too. We need 1099 reform in Oklahoma.

[guido911]

quote:Originally posted by KingMutt

It's kinda like you see a certain kind of person on Springer, they fit the bill of what you expect.  The same for the hateful diatribes, you figure these folks "fit the bill."

Well, there goes whatever credibility you had.

[jamesrage]

quote:Originally posted by guido911

quote:Originally posted by KingMutt

It's kinda like you see a certain kind of person on Springer, they fit the bill of what you expect.  The same for the hateful diatribes, you figure these folks "fit the bill."

Well, there goes whatever credibility you had.

The fact he is screaming racist, xenophobe, Jr klansman and hate munger already shows his lack of credibility.

[guido911]

quote:Originally posted by jamesrage

quote:Originally posted by guido911

quote:Originally posted by KingMutt

It's kinda like you see a certain kind of person on Springer, they fit the bill of what you expect.  The same for the hateful diatribes, you figure these folks "fit the bill."

Well, there goes whatever credibility you had.

The fact he is screaming racist, xenophobe, Jr klansman and hate munger already shows his lack of credibility.

agreed.

[Conan71]

quote:Originally posted by wenwilwa

quote:Originally posted by jamesrage

It is the people with common sense that passed HB1804. Because common sense dictated that if the feds are not going to do anything about it except for a few token raids every time they want to pass a amnesty like bill. Then common sense says the states should step to do their part.

Here is a link to the new law in case anyone would like to read the text.

I became very concerned with Parts A and B of Section 3:

quote:A.  It shall be unlawful for any person to transport, move, or attempt to transport within the United States any alien knowing or in reckless disregard of the fact that the alien has come to, entered, or remained in the United States in violation of law, in furtherance of the illegal presence of the alien in the United States.


C.  Any person violating the provisions of subsections A or B of this section shall, upon conviction, be guilty of a felony punishable by imprisonment in the custody of the Department of Corrections for not less than one (1) year, or by a fine of not less than One Thousand Dollars ($1,000.00), or by both such fine and imprisonment.

Apparently, I am of the ilk of felons, according to this law.

Before confessing my "crime", I'll back up a bit...

I do a lot of volunteer work in the area where I live (an area with a large Hispanic population), including volunteering for my neighborhood organization and serving on the board of a non-profit foundation that provides social services in this part of town. I have recently written and received a grant to provide English classes to parents whose children go to the elementary school in our neighborhood. (The grant money is coming from a private family foundation, lest anyone worry that public dollars are being used to teach my neighbors English.)

The English classes are held at a local church where we can provide childcare during the classes. Since most of the parents do not have cars, I will occasionally give one or two of them a ride from the elementary school to the church. I've even been known to pick up a whole carload of parents in the church van on a couple of occasions.

By my reading of Section 3, Part A, my actions could be worthy of a felony charge come this Thursday.

Jamesrage, the vague wording of HB 1804 makes me -- an ordinary American citizen associating with her neighbors, doing private volunteer work in the community -- feel as though I could be charged with a felony for my work. I do not agree that it is "people with common sense" that passed the legislation.

Nope, Stanley Glanz and others have said people like you won't be persecuted, nor prosecuted.  The issue had come up about transporting illegal aliens to church or for appointments with social services.  According to Glanz, anyhow, they are going to get into workplace inforcement which is the area that ICE and INS are already supposed to be, but are under-manned for the task.