President Reagan and immigration

[mr.jaynes]

quote:Originally posted by mr.jaynes

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

quote:Originally posted by mr.jaynes

quote:Originally posted by recyclemichael

I can't believe all the republicans who idolize Ronald Reagan yet hate immigrants.

Really? I can't understand people idolizing Ronald Reagan....

Really?  There are several million immigrants who owe their legal status to Reagan's 1986 immigration reform who should idolize him.  Also a whole bunch of free people in eastern Europe as well.  That's just in areas of human rights...

Should I go on?

And there are some who regarded him as a villain, specifically civillians in Nicaragua, El Salvador, Guatemala, and other third-world nations.

Perhaps that comment was a bit too venomous for even typically myself; for this I apologize. Evenso, I do consider many of Reagan's foreign policy initiatives to be rather misguided.

[iplaw]

quote:Originally posted by recyclemichael

I can't believe all the republicans who idolize Ronald Reagan yet hate immigrants.

Is it fair to assume that you're interchanging the terms "immigrants" and "illegal immigrants" as if they mean the same thing?

[iplaw]

quote:Is America a geographical place?

What kind of a dumb question is this?  Of course it's a geographical place, I can point you to it on the map if you're interested.  Also, we've had a flag for well over 100 years now...I can show you one of those too if you want.

[mr.jaynes]

quote:Originally posted by iplaw

quote:Is America a geographical place?

What kind of a dumb question is this?  Of course it's a geographical place, I can point you to it on the map if you're interested.  Also, we've had a flag for well over 100 years now...I can show you one of those too if you want.

Not just a geographical place, but a way of life-and I'm not kidding around. I mean it in the best sense of the phrase.

[TheArtist]

quote:Originally posted by iplaw

quote:Is America a geographical place?

What kind of a dumb question is this?  Of course it's a geographical place, I can point you to it on the map if you're interested.  Also, we've had a flag for well over 100 years now...I can show you one of those too if you want.

Boy, someone missed the point.  I bet you have a heck of a time with poetry, multiple meanings, nuance and especially context.  

If Hitler had conquered the United States, and the continent was still called America, we would be Americans in a strict geographical sense. But we wouldnt be "Americans" in the sense we are talking about. Mexicans are Americans, Canadians are Americans. But that wasnt the context we were talking in.

I am proud to be an American who believes in.....  

If our flag were designed differently, if someone else had a flag like ours is now... why does it matter what the pattern is on a piece of cloth, painted on a wall, photons projected on a screen? Is America a piece of cloth, paint, photons? Its a symbol that we ascribe certain meanings to. It could look like anything, be anything. Its the meaning and ideals that matter, not the specific design or object.  Would we be any different now if our flag looked different?  Would you suddenly be any different if the design changed? Would our values change? Its what we say "it" represents and whether we ascribe to what that represents, that matters.

[MH2010]

quote:Originally posted by guido911

quote:Originally posted by MH2010

quote:Originally posted by guido911

quote:Originally posted by MH2010

I'm more of a Theodore Roosevelt kind of guy

In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person's becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American... There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people.'
- Theodore Roosevelt 1907

What a racist.

You're showing your ignorance again. [}:)]

I am showing my ignorance? How dense must a person be to believe that I was being serious with that post. If you have been paying even the remotest attention regarding all these threads about 1804, there are a few on this forum who believe that any effort to restrict illegal aliens' free and limitless access to our country is a racist. Plainly, Teddy's quote would fall into the "racist" category, wouldn't you agree Michael C?

(That's why there was a little laughing face after I said it.)

[Conan71]

quote:Originally posted by mr.jaynes

quote:Originally posted by mr.jaynes

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

quote:Originally posted by mr.jaynes

quote:Originally posted by recyclemichael

I can't believe all the republicans who idolize Ronald Reagan yet hate immigrants.

Really? I can't understand people idolizing Ronald Reagan....

Really?  There are several million immigrants who owe their legal status to Reagan's 1986 immigration reform who should idolize him.  Also a whole bunch of free people in eastern Europe as well.  That's just in areas of human rights...

Should I go on?

And there are some who regarded him as a villain, specifically civillians in Nicaragua, El Salvador, Guatemala, and other third-world nations.

Perhaps that comment was a bit too venomous for even typically myself; for this I apologize. Evenso, I do consider many of Reagan's foreign policy initiatives to be rather misguided.

Name a president in the last 100 years who hasn't had lapses in foreign policy and I'll Fedex you a cookie. []

[mr.jaynes]

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

quote:Originally posted by mr.jaynes

quote:Originally posted by mr.jaynes

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

quote:Originally posted by mr.jaynes

quote:Originally posted by recyclemichael

I can't believe all the republicans who idolize Ronald Reagan yet hate immigrants.

Really? I can't understand people idolizing Ronald Reagan....

Really?  There are several million immigrants who owe their legal status to Reagan's 1986 immigration reform who should idolize him.  Also a whole bunch of free people in eastern Europe as well.  That's just in areas of human rights...

Should I go on?

And there are some who regarded him as a villain, specifically civillians in Nicaragua, El Salvador, Guatemala, and other third-world nations.

Perhaps that comment was a bit too venomous for even typically myself; for this I apologize. Evenso, I do consider many of Reagan's foreign policy initiatives to be rather misguided.

Name a president in the last 100 years who hasn't had lapses in foreign policy and I'll Fedex you a cookie. []

While I was pleased to see the fall of Communism in Eastern Europe and the fall of the Berlin Wall (and I immediately and duly credit Mr. Reagan for this), I found other errors in certain of his other initiatives in the foreign policy realm.

To wit, the policy towards Central America was misguided and did little to endear us to that region, not to mention the rest of the world and to the electorate. Notably, the illegal aid to the Nicaraguan Contras (who were hardly the moral equivalent of our founding fathers, no matter what happy spin Reagan wanted to put on it); aiding the repressively murderous governments of El Salvador and Guatemala; and the support to other repressive governments in the world in the name of "freedom." And the backing of the Mujhahadin of Afghanistan came back to bite us in 2001.

But as for the cookie, perhaps one of those chocolate chip cookies from Doubletree?

[Conan71]

quote:Originally posted by mr.jaynes

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

quote:Originally posted by mr.jaynes

quote:Originally posted by mr.jaynes

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

quote:Originally posted by mr.jaynes

quote:Originally posted by recyclemichael

I can't believe all the republicans who idolize Ronald Reagan yet hate immigrants.

Really? I can't understand people idolizing Ronald Reagan....

Really?  There are several million immigrants who owe their legal status to Reagan's 1986 immigration reform who should idolize him.  Also a whole bunch of free people in eastern Europe as well.  That's just in areas of human rights...

Should I go on?

And there are some who regarded him as a villain, specifically civillians in Nicaragua, El Salvador, Guatemala, and other third-world nations.

Perhaps that comment was a bit too venomous for even typically myself; for this I apologize. Evenso, I do consider many of Reagan's foreign policy initiatives to be rather misguided.

Name a president in the last 100 years who hasn't had lapses in foreign policy and I'll Fedex you a cookie. []

While I was pleased to see the fall of Communism in Eastern Europe and the fall of the Berlin Wall (and I immediately and duly credit Mr. Reagan for this), I found other errors in certain of his other initiatives in the foreign policy realm.

To wit, the policy towards Central America was misguided and did little to endear us to that region, not to mention the rest of the world and to the electorate. Notably, the illegal aid to the Nicaraguan Contras (who were hardly the moral equivalent of our founding fathers, no matter what happy spin Reagan wanted to put on it); aiding the repressively murderous governments of El Salvador and Guatemala; and the support to other repressive governments in the world in the name of "freedom." And the backing of the Mujhahadin of Afghanistan came back to bite us in 2001.

But as for the cookie, perhaps one of those chocolate chip cookies from Doubletree?

Still didn't name one president w/o foreign policy gaffes in the last 100 years, no cookie for you, but I'll still buy you a beer when you move back. []

Reagan faced pretty much the same quandry which has faced every other president since Teddy Roosevelt when it comes to Central/South American and Caribbean foreign policy.  It comes down to supporting which ever side is still going to keep the best interests of the U.S. and U.S. business, and hopefully result in the least blood-shed.  I know we've reviewed this issue before on another thread.  Had Reagan supported the opposing faction there would be dissention as well.  Had we kept out of it alltogether, who knows where we'd be in international trade and oil these days.  There is no way to please every person as president of a democratic republic.  

He DID inherit a lot of problems created initially by Ike's deft deferral of Central/South American policy to the Dulles brothers who had agendas of their own via their business relationships with major players in U.S. oil, fruit, rubber, etc.

He did what he thought was right, there are people who disagree with what was right.  No different than any other president in the history of the U.S.

No one can deny the popularity of Reagan, and it's impossible to overlook the miraculous unification which took place under his guidance after the turbulent '60's and '70's.  Maybe not the best, but he was about as good a statesman as you will find in the annals of American history.

[mr.jaynes]

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

quote:Originally posted by mr.jaynes

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

quote:Originally posted by mr.jaynes

quote:Originally posted by mr.jaynes

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

quote:Originally posted by mr.jaynes

quote:Originally posted by recyclemichael

I can't believe all the republicans who idolize Ronald Reagan yet hate immigrants.

Really? I can't understand people idolizing Ronald Reagan....

Really?  There are several million immigrants who owe their legal status to Reagan's 1986 immigration reform who should idolize him.  Also a whole bunch of free people in eastern Europe as well.  That's just in areas of human rights...

Should I go on?

And there are some who regarded him as a villain, specifically civillians in Nicaragua, El Salvador, Guatemala, and other third-world nations.

Perhaps that comment was a bit too venomous for even typically myself; for this I apologize. Evenso, I do consider many of Reagan's foreign policy initiatives to be rather misguided.

Name a president in the last 100 years who hasn't had lapses in foreign policy and I'll Fedex you a cookie. []

While I was pleased to see the fall of Communism in Eastern Europe and the fall of the Berlin Wall (and I immediately and duly credit Mr. Reagan for this), I found other errors in certain of his other initiatives in the foreign policy realm.

To wit, the policy towards Central America was misguided and did little to endear us to that region, not to mention the rest of the world and to the electorate. Notably, the illegal aid to the Nicaraguan Contras (who were hardly the moral equivalent of our founding fathers, no matter what happy spin Reagan wanted to put on it); aiding the repressively murderous governments of El Salvador and Guatemala; and the support to other repressive governments in the world in the name of "freedom." And the backing of the Mujhahadin of Afghanistan came back to bite us in 2001.

But as for the cookie, perhaps one of those chocolate chip cookies from Doubletree?

Still didn't name one president w/o foreign policy gaffes in the last 100 years, no cookie for you, but I'll still buy you a beer when you move back. []

I am looking forward!