CAIR OK : Press Release on a Middle East Website

[kakie]

Recently,  the newly formed Oklahoma chapter of the Council of American Islamic Relations (CAIR) was reported to have given a presentation to the Oklahoma State School Boards Association and offering them plenty of material to bring Islam into the public schools in Oklahoma.

I didn't find this article in any newspaper in Oklahoma, oh no, I found this article on Islamonline, a Dubai based Islamic internet site which is owned, in part, by HAMAS/Muslim Brotherhood spiritual leader, Yusuf al-Qaradawi (Al-Qaradhawi) who openingly supports suicide bombers!  The article was submitted to them by CAIR!  

http://www.islamonline.com/news/newsfull.php?newid=33302

[TheArtist]

I found this article about a book written by the Pope. "The Real Jesus", not in any newspaper in Oklahoma, oh no, I found this article on Islamonline, a dubai based Islamic internet site which is owned, in part, by HAMAS/Muslim Brotherhood spiritual leader, Yusuf al-Qaradawi (Al-Qaradhawi) who openingly supports suicide bombers!

http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?c=Article_C&cid=1176631630902&pagename=Zone-English-ArtCulture%2FACELayout

And then there is this about a movie made by Mel Gibson. I just knew he had to have something to do with Islamic terrorism.

http://www.islamonline.net/English/ArtCulture/2004/02/article01.shtml

First they brought witchcraft into our schools. "Harry Potter" books, and now information about a different religion! I remember seeing something in one school book about Mayan and Toltec cultures and religion. We all know how horrible those religions were with all that blood sacrifice, wars and such. Thank goodness the Spanish put an end to that. Saw something on Buddism too. Those hideous Japanese and their religion. Think of how many Americans they killed for their "Divine Emperor" during World War II.  

[Jeff Man]

Big difference.  The articles you are referring to were picked up in the media and put on the website.  

CAIR OK press release was not carried in any newspaper that I'm aware.  

You tell me.

[TheArtist]

quote:Originally posted by Jeff Man

Big difference.  The articles you are referring to were picked up in the media and put on the website.  

CAIR OK press release was not carried in any newspaper that I'm aware.  

You tell me.

Tell you what?  There are lots of stories that happen locally that are not in local newspapers but get posted in specialty papers, specialty interests, online, etc. Stories that happen in the Black Community, Asian, Hispanic, Gay, bikers, tatoo artists, people who like horses, quilting, the Jewish community, Unitarians, you name it.  I dont think most presentations to the "Oklahoma State School Boards Association" make the local news, let alone Reuters.

[kakie]

In surfing the net, I found out that the Oklahoma School Boards Assocation deny that CAIR did a presentation.  What is going on here?

[rwarn17588]

Sounds like you got bum information. Just because it's on the Internet doesn't mean it's true.

[MichaelC]

I was unaware that Christianity was losing so many people.  I figured for sure, as loud as the right-wing nuts were shouting in the 90's, that they'd picked up some people.  But they didn't, go figure.  They decreased by 7% of the US population between 1990 and 2001.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_the_United_States

One of the pitfalls to making your Religion a part of Politics I suppose.

Unless they do some drastic soul-searching and change it up a bit, self-described "Christians" will be just another minority within a few decades.

[restored2x]

quote:Originally posted by MichaelC

I was unaware that Christianity was losing so many people.  I figured for sure, as loud as the right-wing nuts were shouting in the 90's, that they'd picked up some people.  But they didn't, go figure.  They decreased by 7% of the US population between 1990 and 2001.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_the_United_States

One of the pitfalls to making your Religion a part of Politics I suppose.

Unless they do some drastic soul-searching and change it up a bit, self-described "Christians" will be just another minority within a few decades.

Very insightful, Michael. I heard some facts from the Tulsa SoBaps last year that confirmed what you are saying, but on a local level. THe majority of their churches are in decline. That's just membership, too. Attendance is even worse. (I wish I could find those figures)

I absolutely agree with you that the church crossing over into politics is one major cause of the decline. This is just my opinion, and no specific factors were included in the SoBap report, but I think it's obvious.

Just curious - what other factors do you believe are involved? (Anyone - not just MichaelC)

[MichaelC]

Attrition.  I always kind of knew the mainline protestants were losing.  Primarily through attrition, people die and there weren't enough youngsters to carry on.  People find the religion of their youth, dated and ineffective.  But I figured Evangelical Churches might have made up for it, that's the "new thing" in relative terms, which they obviously haven't made up for losses.

The Church I was brought up in, it's a mainline Protestant, maybe 75% are just plain elderly, and you have a few families and children, most of whom will move on to other things eventually, and eventually disappear.

There may be a time where the only large Christian groups are Evangelicals and Catholics with Baptists running a distant 3rd.  Just because of attrition, and an inability to change, and an inability to appeal to people..

[rwarn17588]

Yep. The number of people who don't go to church is one of the fastest-growing segments in the United States.

"Since 1991, the adult population in the United States has grown by 15%. During that same period the number of adults who do not attend church has nearly doubled, rising from 39 million to 75 million - a 92% increase!

"These startling statistics come from the most recent tracking study of religious behavior conducted by The Barna Group, a company that follows trends related to faith, culture and leadership in America. The latest study shows that the percentage of adults that is unchurched - defined as not having attended a Christian church service, other than for a holiday service, such as Christmas or Easter, or for special events such as a wedding or funeral, at any time in the past six months - has risen from 21% in 1991 to 34% today."

http://www.barna.org/FlexPage.aspx?Page=BarnaUpdate&BarnaUpdateID=163

[restored2x]

I also think maybe people are really fed up with "religion" as it is presented and represented and are more "spiritual" minded. The attrition is obvious, I guess my question is - Why the attrition?

I guess the SoBaps could do their own survey, but how many people would actually answer truthfully if they know who it is that is asking the question?

Is it that life is too busy?

Is it that the caricature of the christian and televangelist has caught up to them?

Is it because the church is speaking about issues that are irrelevant?

How much of it can be attributed to the very public failings and actions of high-profile preachers?

Could it be about the church losing focus (politics, money and power instead of whatever that gospel thing is supposed to center on - loving your neighbor)?

Some of you who have "left the church behind" (or maybe you feel that the church has left you behind) I would love to hear why.

[rwarn17588]

I think, restored2x, that the answer to many of your questions would be "yes."

[jne]

yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, AND, I think, because folks who have become a part of this new 'information age' now have a world of diversity at their fingertips.  This quickly brings into question the position that our faith is the one true faith and others are all on the train to hell.

[MichaelC]

^ditto.

Obviously, Christianity (everything that term entails) has been the dominant religion for quite some time in this country.  But, ultimately, if you repeat the same action over and over again you're not going to get different results.  There's a point in Christianity where all logic seems to fail.  It mostly has to do with preservation.

I've seen a lot of articles about Christians concerned about why their religion seems to be shrinking.  And they're answer is; we need to be more over the top and in people's faces.  Do the same thing, just do it louder.  That's not going to work.

A lot of what Christianity focuses on today, seems to be "hating the sin", rather than the love aspect of the religion.  That may fly in certain Christian circles, but it won't fly in Secular society.  And as diverse as this country is, and as diverse as it's becoming, that "hate" aspect becomes more and more of a losing battle.  So, if Christians choose to keep their focus there, I don't see how they can possibly reverse the trend.

Which makes people like Carlson Pearson an anomaly, and special.  They took that focus away.  They're chances of survival long-term, are pretty good in relative terms.  Obviously, anything can shut down a church, but their line of thought has a good chance of growing.

[restored2x]

Thanks to all. I'm gonna send some preacher friends to this thread - very enlightening.

Anyone - please feel free to do more.

Better yet - PM me - I just realized that this is thread hijack! Maybe I'll start a different thread sometime in the future.