KU or OU

[waterboy]

quote:Originally posted by Neptune

Yeah, you OU homers were saying that when OU went down and got it handed to them by LSU a few years back.

You were also saying that when you denied undefeated Auburn, only to have OU get destroyed by USC.

The BigXII may be as good as the SEC this year.  Until the BigXII proves it, that's just BS.  That hasn't been the case the last several years.

And who did OU play non conference.  Is it that win against TU, or the win at home against 5-5 Miami that you're claiming is so big?

Who are you calling homer? You talk more about OU than I do! Closet homer?

I never said Big12 was better than SEC, just that the coastal dominated press picks favorites from favored conferences and then seems surprised when some chump knocks them off. Its an upset a week for these guys. They always act astounded and everyone buys it!! People complain that we play weak non-conference but ignore that the SEC plays little non conference at all. Boise last year or App State this year should have awakened folks but I guess its more fun just to be surprised.

I would bet that the top 4 teams from the Big12 would be competitive against any SEC or Pac10 team. The Big 12 reputation suffers from the ineptness of Iowa St., Baylor and underachieving OSU but the others have their weak links too. Tulane, Cal, Stanford, Arkansas and Miami ain't nothin' special. Didn't TU beat Tulane? The same Two-lane that carried LSU into the the third quarter? OU beat Miami. They were considered tough at that time. OSU was competitive with Georgia.

OU got outcoached and outplayed by PAC10 top teams the last few years, which didn't surprise me, but every year is different. We didn't have a player on contract like Bush and we had weak line play but the PAC 10 isn't so special this year. LSU is vulnerable. We also smacked some good SEC teams in bowl games in the early 2000's but I guess that doesn't matter.

This area boasts the highest number of OSU alums and the strongest support in the nation including Stillwater, (even so they can't seem to find sponsors for a radio or TV program) so I have come to understand the animosity for anything Sooner, but until you Aggies fill your stadium for a Texas or undefeated Kansas type team, keep the criticisms among your own kind.[]

[Neptune]

lol

Homer!

I like the BigXII.  I really really do.  More than any conference, and I follow a lot of NCAA D-I football.  I'm very happy that Mizzou or Kansas will make the Championship, it's new.

Miami was only tough, if you didn't follow them.  Historically, yes, but last year was terrible.  They had some kind of probation, this isn't the old Miami.  I think that's why USF has peaked out, getting normal Hurricane recruits.

I think OSU gets it's fair share.  They have ever since they came out of Probation back in the 90's.  And I think, OSU was the last BigXII team to beat an SEC team.  Last year against Alabama.  

But I wouldn't be able to gauge LSU by Arkansas or Tulane.  OU struggled against Iowa State, who lost to I-AA Northern Iowa.  Doesn't say much about OU.  And Arkansas may be terrible in the SEC, you put them in the BigXII, they might very well be middle-of-the-road and a future contender.

[waterboy]

quote:Originally posted by Neptune

lol

Homer!

I like the BigXII.  I really really do.  More than any conference, and I follow a lot of NCAA D-I football.  I'm very happy that Mizzou or Kansas will make the Championship, it's new.

Miami was only tough, if you didn't follow them.  Historically, yes, but last year was terrible.  They had some kind of probation, this isn't the old Miami.  I think that's why USF has peaked out, getting normal Hurricane recruits.

I think OSU gets it's fair share.  They have ever since they came out of Probation back in the 90's.  And I think, OSU was the last BigXII team to beat an SEC team.  Last year against Alabama.  

But I wouldn't be able to gauge LSU by Arkansas or Tulane.  OU struggled against Iowa State, who lost to I-AA Northern Iowa.  Doesn't say much about OU.  And Arkansas may be terrible in the SEC, you put them in the BigXII, they might very well be middle-of-the-road and a future contender.

Poor Aggie!

Arkansas chose to go SEC didn't they? And they are respected there. They would do no better in the Big12 than they did in the SouthWest conference. Respectable and sometimes great.

Pull out the Sports Illustrated from back in August for a good laugh. Then think about how we almost got South Florida, Boston College, Ohio State, USC, and Cal, as contenders for the national championship. You simply cannot make accurate measurement of conference strength or predict outcomes from those measurements. Too many variables. A playoff system is the only true guage.

[Neptune]

Huh?

Arkansas' move to SEC was a serious mistake for Arkansas.  They lost all of their Texas recruiting power, every bit of it, that's why they'll have difficulty ever taking off.  Arkansas vs Texas, is a pretty big rivalry.

It's the same with OU.  If OU were somehow to be thrown to the SEC, or if the OU vs Texas rivalry were stopped, OU would plummet, no recruits.  They're entire team is from Texas.

[Conan71]

quote:Originally posted by Neptune

Huh?

Arkansas' move to SEC was a serious mistake for Arkansas.  They lost all of their Texas recruiting power, every bit of it, that's why they'll have difficulty ever taking off.  Arkansas vs Texas, is a pretty big rivalry.

It's the same with OU.  If OU were somehow to be thrown to the SEC, or if the OU vs Texas rivalry were stopped, OU would plummet, no recruits.  They're entire team is from Texas.

Have difficulty taking off???  The teams they lost to last year finished out the season at #1, 3, 4, & 7.  They beat Auburn when Auburn was #2.  They played a very tough schedule last year.  Aside from their loss to USC, they were beat by 10, 5, and 3 points in their three other losses.

They've had some pretty good seasons in the 15 or 20 years since they went SEC, this doesn't happen to be one of the more stellar ones looking at who they've beat and who they've lost to.  They shouldn't have a problem with Miss. State, but if they win against LSU, that screws up the BCS and they finish the regular season at 8-4.

I count somewhere around 35 players from Texas on the Arkansas roster, and about 33 on the OU roster.  Considering that accounts for about 1/4 of the crop at Arkansas, doesn't sound like they've lost all connection to Texas recruits.  

Do you talk just to hear yourself sometimes?

[Neptune]

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

quote:Originally posted by Neptune

Huh?

Arkansas' move to SEC was a serious mistake for Arkansas.  They lost all of their Texas recruiting power, every bit of it, that's why they'll have difficulty ever taking off.  Arkansas vs Texas, is a pretty big rivalry.

It's the same with OU.  If OU were somehow to be thrown to the SEC, or if the OU vs Texas rivalry were stopped, OU would plummet, no recruits.  They're entire team is from Texas.

Have difficulty taking off???  The teams they lost to last year finished out the season at #1, 3, 4, & 7.  They beat Auburn when Auburn was #2.  They played a very tough schedule last year.  Aside from their loss to USC, they were beat by 10, 5, and 3 points in their three other losses.

They've had some pretty good seasons in the 15 or 20 years since they went SEC, this doesn't happen to be one of the more stellar ones looking at who they've beat and who they've lost to.  They shouldn't have a problem with Miss. State, but if they win against LSU, that screws up the BCS and they finish the regular season at 8-4.

I count somewhere around 35 players from Texas on the Arkansas roster, and about 33 on the OU roster.  Considering that accounts for about 1/4 of the crop at Arkansas, doesn't sound like they've lost all connection to Texas recruits.  

Do you talk just to hear yourself sometimes?

OSU has a huge chunk of Texas players.  Big deal, there are tons of them around.  Arkansas getting everyone out of Texas, that doesn't make a BigXII school.  It's about recruiting power, they lost it.  Back in the day, they could dominate the Longhorns with Texas players, for years.  They aren't capable of that now.

Pick a side Gomer, SEC good, or SEC bad.  I say SEC good, Arkansas never to be competitive in that conference.

[Conan71]

quote:Originally posted by Neptune

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

quote:Originally posted by Neptune

Huh?

Arkansas' move to SEC was a serious mistake for Arkansas.  They lost all of their Texas recruiting power, every bit of it, that's why they'll have difficulty ever taking off.  Arkansas vs Texas, is a pretty big rivalry.

It's the same with OU.  If OU were somehow to be thrown to the SEC, or if the OU vs Texas rivalry were stopped, OU would plummet, no recruits.  They're entire team is from Texas.

Have difficulty taking off???  The teams they lost to last year finished out the season at #1, 3, 4, & 7.  They beat Auburn when Auburn was #2.  They played a very tough schedule last year.  Aside from their loss to USC, they were beat by 10, 5, and 3 points in their three other losses.

They've had some pretty good seasons in the 15 or 20 years since they went SEC, this doesn't happen to be one of the more stellar ones looking at who they've beat and who they've lost to.  They shouldn't have a problem with Miss. State, but if they win against LSU, that screws up the BCS and they finish the regular season at 8-4.

I count somewhere around 35 players from Texas on the Arkansas roster, and about 33 on the OU roster.  Considering that accounts for about 1/4 of the crop at Arkansas, doesn't sound like they've lost all connection to Texas recruits.  

Do you talk just to hear yourself sometimes?

OSU has a huge chunk of Texas players.  Big deal, there are tons of them around.  Arkansas getting everyone out of Texas, that doesn't make a BigXII school.  It's about recruiting power, they lost it.  Back in the day, they could dominate the Longhorns with Texas players, for years.  They aren't capable of that now.

Pick a side Gomer, SEC good, or SEC bad.  I say SEC good, Arkansas never to be competitive in that conference.

There's fairly good parity in the SEC west.  The east is dominated by Florida, Tennessee, and Georgia.  Florida produces every bit as good of football recruits as Texas.  Hell yes SEC is a good conference: Georgia, Florida, LSU, Auburn, Alabama, Arkansas, etc.  Arkansas has been just about as competitive as anyone else from the west division.

Now yer just makin' noise, first Texas recruits are important, eh no everyone has 'em:

FWIW- Arkansas has only played Texas three times in the last 8 or so seasons and beat them twice, one of those being in the Cotton Bowl.  So much for not being able to keep up w/ Texas in recent history.

They don't suck near as much as you make them out to.  They have become a perennial 8-4/7-5 team playing some of the best teams in the country.  When a team is getting 1/4 of their players from Texas in light of your comments you are just sitting around making fallacious arguments.

[swake]

quote:Originally posted by Neptune

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

They don't suck near as much as you make them out to.  They have become a perennial 8-4/7-5 team playing some of the best teams in the country.  When a team is getting 1/4 of their players from Texas in light of your comments you are just sitting around making fallacious arguments.

Again pick a side Gomer.

If you're going to sit here and tell me there has been one single team out of Arkansas that was as good as the old SWC Arkansas teams, you'd be a god damn liar.  And you could stop being an insulting dipSh!t about it too.

Nobody said anything to you, and you have to be an donkey#ole.  Fantastic.

Nothing against Arkansas, I like them, they aren't recruiting the players they were recruiting out of Texas.

This is even more true in Basketball

[Neptune]

quote:Originally posted by swake

This is even more true in Basketball

It's pretty well known, except for apparently these guys.  I don't even understand where they're coming from.  

Recruiting is about who you play, and whether or not you're a "big-name" contender.  When Arkansas was playing all the Texas teams in conference, they competed directly with those schools.  When Arkansas left, yeah they got regional leftovers, but the strength of their recruiting base shifted towards already heavily recruited SEC states.  "Alabama didn't recruit me, maybe I'll try Kentucky, teach them a lesson."

Seems self-explanatory.  Maybe not to a novice, but damn, I thought there were some college football fans in here.

[Conan71]

quote:Originally posted by swake

quote:Originally posted by Neptune

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

They don't suck near as much as you make them out to.  They have become a perennial 8-4/7-5 team playing some of the best teams in the country.  When a team is getting 1/4 of their players from Texas in light of your comments you are just sitting around making fallacious arguments.

Again pick a side Gomer.

If you're going to sit here and tell me there has been one single team out of Arkansas that was as good as the old SWC Arkansas teams, you'd be a god damn liar.  And you could stop being an insulting dipSh!t about it too.

Nobody said anything to you, and you have to be an donkey#ole.  Fantastic.

Nothing against Arkansas, I like them, they aren't recruiting the players they were recruiting out of Texas.

This is even more true in Basketball

Neptune you are a pathetic, sniveling, doesn't know-it-all dip-****.

People call you out on your crap and you pull the liar card.  Real class, buddy.

[Neptune]

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

Neptune you are a pathetic, sniveling, doesn't know-it-all dip-****.

People call you out on your crap and you pull the liar card.  Real class, buddy.

Oh, nevermind.

edited

[Conan71]

quote:Originally posted by swake



This is even more true in Basketball

Only true if you dismiss back to back trips to the NCAA final with a national championship in '94.

Arkansas biggest problem with hoops is no more Nolan Richardson.  He had almost four hundred wins at Arkansas, most of them after Arkansas went to the SEC.

I hate to piss off any Houston Nutt fans, but it's not simply a talent and depth problem at Arkansas.

[Neptune]

quote:Originally posted by swake

This is even more true in Basketball

Wiki's got some interesting stuff on Arkansas, SWC, SEC.  

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southwest_Conference#Conference_men.27s_basketball_regular-season_champions

Pre-SEC conference Championships: 1936, 1946*, 1954, 1959*, 1960, 1961*, 1964, 1965, 1968*, 1975*, 1979*, 1988, 1989.  Longest Drought, 10 years, between 36 and 46.  From 36 to 89, 13 in 53 years.  Average: Nearly 1 every 4 years.

SEC Championships: None.  15 years.

Pre-SEC conference champs:  1926, 1927, 1928, 1929, 1930, 1935*, 1936, 1938, 1941, 1942*, 1944*, 1949*, 1950*, 1958*, 1977, 1978*, 1979*, 1981, 1982, 1989, 1990, 1991: 22 in 70 years.    

SEC Basketball Champs:  2000, 1 in 14 years, (a ratio of 5 to 70).


Maybe, if your inclined to the delusional, Arkansas has never had a bad coach before they reached the SEC.  Hopefully that's not a  Baylor sign.  One of those, "you're the Conference stooge, you aren't getting a good coach.  Top of the world, to conference lowlifes."  Could be.  It's probably not quite that bad.  But a simple coaching problem, doesn't explain it.

I remember when Baylor was solid, and SMU was good.  Ponies, Porsches, Probation.  SWC automatic bid to the Cotton Bowl.  Football fans remember when Arkansas was the only team worth anything in the SWC, and Texas stuggled for second or third.  The Big XII saved Texas from going down the tubes.  

Arkansas will never have that advantage again.  They jumped too quick, can't blame them, the SWC was sinking, but they'd be better off in the BigXII, and the BigXII would be better off with Arkansas instead of Baylor.  Going head to head with the Texas and Oklahoma squads, instead of picking up leftovers.

[waterboy]

quote:Originally posted by Neptune

quote:Originally posted by swake

This is even more true in Basketball

Wiki's got some interesting stuff on Arkansas, SWC, SEC.  

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southwest_Conference#Conference_men.27s_basketball_regular-season_champions

Pre-SEC conference Championships: 1936, 1946*, 1954, 1959*, 1960, 1961*, 1964, 1965, 1968*, 1975*, 1979*, 1988, 1989.  Longest Drought, 10 years, between 36 and 46.  From 36 to 89, 13 in 53 years.  Average: Nearly 1 every 4 years.

SEC Championships: None.  15 years.

Pre-SEC conference champs:  1926, 1927, 1928, 1929, 1930, 1935*, 1936, 1938, 1941, 1942*, 1944*, 1949*, 1950*, 1958*, 1977, 1978*, 1979*, 1981, 1982, 1989, 1990, 1991: 22 in 70 years.    

SEC Basketball Champs:  2000, 1 in 14 years, (a ratio of 5 to 70).


Maybe, if your inclined to the delusional, Arkansas has never had a bad coach before they reached the SEC.  Hopefully that's not a  Baylor sign.  One of those, "you're the Conference stooge, you aren't getting a good coach.  Top of the world, to conference lowlifes."  Could be.  It's probably not quite that bad.  But a simple coaching problem, doesn't explain it.

I remember when Baylor was solid, and SMU was good.  Ponies, Porsches, Probation.  SWC automatic bid to the Cotton Bowl.  Football fans remember when Arkansas was the only team worth anything in the SWC, and Texas stuggled for second or third.  The Big XII saved Texas from going down the tubes.  

Arkansas will never have that advantage again.  They jumped too quick, can't blame them, the SWC was sinking, but they'd be better off in the BigXII, and the BigXII would be better off with Arkansas instead of Baylor.  Going head to head with the Texas and Oklahoma squads, instead of picking up leftovers.

Its been a long time. Did Arkansas voluntarily choose the SEC or was the invitation to the Big12 not extended to them? Culturally they are probably a better fit for the SEC anyway aren't they? I think of Ark as more Southern and Texas as more Southwestern.

And BTW, maybe if OU wasn't getting so many Texas recruits, we could get the local boys going to Kansas!

[Conan71]

Waterboy,

Broyles set the whole deal in motion as I remember and that set off a chain reaction throughout the conferences.  I don't recall the exact reason for the change, might have been better revenue-sharing, maybe wanting to aim higher and have more quality opponents in their conference.  I really can't say for sure.

It's a business.  It's not all about the wins, it's also about bringing in revenue to the University.