Crackheads Might Get A Break

[tim huntzinger]

And to lump all drugs together as Artist has done is incorrect.  Crack, coke, and heroin all create addictions with little effort.  Crack was most definitely cooked up by the CIA and used to infiltrate poor minority communities.  Narcoterrorists have been aided by USA's intel agencies for decades.

Hey artist, you still think North Tulsans are too lazy and stupid to start their own grocery stores?

[MH2010]

quote:Originally posted by waterboy

I'm glad your lifestyle is working for you. If it is the answer to drug addiction and you don't share it with the rest of the world then its a crime.

Seriously, distilled into a few words, you don't use drugs and you don't think anyone should. Admirable. A cop agrees with you. Astounding.

CF makes more sense though. We continue to think that these are simple lifestyle decisions that prison sentencing is going to modify. When you look at the multiple factors involved with drug usage including Biology, Sociology, education, wealth etc., the concept of incarceration as a cure or even as protection for the rest of us, isn't working. Then to exacerbate the mistake by punishing crack users more than powder users over some idea that they are more dangerous by default, is silly.

Punishing drug users is a political tool right up there with abortion, government waste, taxes and immigration. Easy to get elected using that tool.

Spoken like someone who has never been around addiction or affected by it.

[MH2010]

quote:Originally posted by tim huntzinger

And to lump all drugs together as Artist has done is incorrect.  Crack, coke, and heroin all create addictions with little effort.  Crack was most definitely cooked up by the CIA and used to infiltrate poor minority communities.  Narcoterrorists have been aided by USA's intel agencies for decades.

Hey artist, you still think North Tulsans are too lazy and stupid to start their own grocery stores?

Careful, You will give away all the government's secrets!  The black helicopters will be hovering over your house shortly....

[tim huntzinger]

Those black helicopters are probably doing another stoopid stakeout on a murder suspect, you know, like the guy with the warrants last year who killed the ten year old last year, or the Wright Elementary debacle. Just hovering around like little angels, they were, silently keeping us safe.

The CIA was most definitely aiding cocaine and heroin shipments into minority communities.  How far the orders came down from is anyone's guess, but trafficked they did.

[waterboy]

quote:Originally posted by MH2010

quote:Originally posted by waterboy

I'm glad your lifestyle is working for you. If it is the answer to drug addiction and you don't share it with the rest of the world then its a crime.

Seriously, distilled into a few words, you don't use drugs and you don't think anyone should. Admirable. A cop agrees with you. Astounding.

CF makes more sense though. We continue to think that these are simple lifestyle decisions that prison sentencing is going to modify. When you look at the multiple factors involved with drug usage including Biology, Sociology, education, wealth etc., the concept of incarceration as a cure or even as protection for the rest of us, isn't working. Then to exacerbate the mistake by punishing crack users more than powder users over some idea that they are more dangerous by default, is silly.

Punishing drug users is a political tool right up there with abortion, government waste, taxes and immigration. Easy to get elected using that tool.

Spoken like someone who has never been around addiction or affected by it.

There goes any credibility you had with me. Moronic remark. Yes, I have been around a lot of addicted personalities and have been directly affected by it. Family, friends, employees and co-workers. Chances are I saw it from a different perspective than you but of course your view is unassailable. Just lock the bastards up eh? Now that you have outed my circle you feel better?

[mr.jaynes]

quote:Originally posted by tim huntzinger

Those black helicopters are probably doing another stoopid stakeout on a murder suspect, you know, like the guy with the warrants last year who killed the ten year old last year, or the Wright Elementary debacle. Just hovering around like little angels, they were, silently keeping us safe.

The CIA was most definitely aiding cocaine and heroin shipments into minority communities.  How far the orders came down from is anyone's guess, but trafficked they did.

It is my understanding that the Contras were involved-and that's not meant as a witty rejoinder, either.

[MH2010]

quote:Originally posted by waterboy

quote:Originally posted by MH2010

quote:Originally posted by waterboy

I'm glad your lifestyle is working for you. If it is the answer to drug addiction and you don't share it with the rest of the world then its a crime.

Seriously, distilled into a few words, you don't use drugs and you don't think anyone should. Admirable. A cop agrees with you. Astounding.

CF makes more sense though. We continue to think that these are simple lifestyle decisions that prison sentencing is going to modify. When you look at the multiple factors involved with drug usage including Biology, Sociology, education, wealth etc., the concept of incarceration as a cure or even as protection for the rest of us, isn't working. Then to exacerbate the mistake by punishing crack users more than powder users over some idea that they are more dangerous by default, is silly.

Punishing drug users is a political tool right up there with abortion, government waste, taxes and immigration. Easy to get elected using that tool.

Spoken like someone who has never been around addiction or affected by it.

There goes any credibility you had with me. Moronic remark. Yes, I have been around a lot of addicted personalities and have been directly affected by it. Family, friends, employees and co-workers. Chances are I saw it from a different perspective than you but of course your view is unassailable. Just lock the bastards up eh? Now that you have outed my circle you feel better?

You lock up the drug dealers. They are pieces of $H!*.  The simple addicts need drug court.  Tulsa County has an outstanding program.  If they refuse to go into rehab and actively try to kick the habit, they need to be locked up or put on ankle monitors so they can be monitored and caught during their next crime spree to get their fix.   The damage they do to the community far outway any expense that is occurred by them being in prison, monitored or in a manditory lock-down rehab facility.

[tim huntzinger]

quote:Originally posted by mr.jaynes


It is my understanding that the Contras were involved-and that's not meant as a witty rejoinder, either.

WHAT??? YOU MUST BE CRAZAY!!!  Contras involved in drug smuggling???  GRASSY KNOLL! TIN-FOIL HATS! BLACK CHOPPERS! YAAAAAAAHHHHH!

[tim huntzinger]

quote:Originally posted by mr.jaynes


It is my understanding that the Contras were involved-and that's not meant as a witty rejoinder, either.

WHAT??? YOU MUST BE CRAZAY!!!  Contras involved in drug smuggling???  GRASSY KNOLL! TIN-FOIL HATS! BLACK CHOPPERS! YAAAAAAAHHHHH!

[Conan71]

Artist, I commend you on your healthy life-style and it's apparent results.  I wish it was easier for others to make good life-style choices as if it were second nature.  I'm not lampooning you at all, just pointing out it's not so easy for a lot of people.  If anything, you are probably in a minority and that's not a bad thing at all.  A lot of people would like to have what you do.

I am a believer that many chronic ailments people suffer from like depression or allergies, can be significantly helped by diet, excercize, proper nutrition, and limiting the number of foreign substances you ingest.    Mental well-being is helped by focusing on positive relationships, situations, and exploring whatever your concept of spirituality is.

(I always tell people to take my advice, because obviously, I'm not using it. [] )

Many people suffer from a compulsive disorder of one sort or another.  For some people it gets channeled into lifestyle choices which are detrimental to their health, relationships, and spirituality (alcoholics, drug addicts, gluttons, shopaholics, etc).  It can start as obsessive-compulsive thinking toward negative relationships, stress, situations, and no sense of spirituality.  Then it manifests itself in substance abuse, chemical addictions, over-eating, buying things to make you feel better, or any number of compulsive behaviors in order to anesthetize those things which bring a person discomfort.  Some people might turn to prescribed AD meds or anxiety drugs (Xanax is one of the most unnecessarily over-prescribed meds on the market), some people self-medicate with illicit drugs or alcohol.

And yet there are others who might partake of a little pot every now and then or get a good alcohol buzz a few times a year being just caught up in a moment.

For others, compulsion is used in productive ways which don't necessarily harm their health, but going to extremes can still affect their relationships and spirituality (i.e. the "workaholic").  I have a whole dissertation about some of the greatest preachers and missionaries in history likely having a compulsive disorder which is put to good and productive use to benefit others, but I'll save that for another time.

I don't have a clue what your workday is like.  I'm guessing for the sort of work you do, you must be a self-starter and are able to stay focused and motivated in order to make a living.  If you find yourself working 16-hour days on your projects, it's somewhat of a compulsion, but it's creative, doesn't hurt others, and the rewards are healthy- so long as you aren't sleep-deprived. []

Personally for me, I'm the type that when I get into something, I don't dip my toe in the water, I jump in head first and learn to swim.  I can see that from every occupation I've ever had, and every hobby I've had (I have a small warehouse full of stuff from one of my previous hobbies [xx(]).  Having a conscious awareness of that compulsive tendency has kept me from experimenting with dangerous drugs.  

I still remember the first Xmas break after I graduated from high school, I was at a party with former classmates from HS where someone brought an 8-ball of cocaine.  I headed for the door as soon as I saw it.  "Conan where are you going?  You mean you've been at college for a semester and you haven't tried cocaine?"  I knew better.  I'd heard enough stories about the high that I knew I'd like it, want all I could get and wind up dead, broke, in prison or all three.

I believe everyone has the potential for compulsive behavior.  It's just that some people manifest it in ways which don't harm others around them.

My thinking on drug and alcohol offenses, is that first time offenders for using or driving while impaired should be fined enough that it gets their attention.  Subsequent offenses, it should get stiffer.  Finally if someone shows that progressive fines, loss of priveledges, and mandated re-hab aren't working, they are a threat to others safety and should be locked up to protect the public.  I disagree with Waterboy's point that incarceration doesn't protect the public.  

In the case of habitual drunk drivers or habitual users who also have violent crimes on their record, they need to be locked away to protect others, as it's apparent that they have some sort of sociopathic disorder or physical dependency which doesn't allow them to respond to the same treatment others do and never will.

As far as crack getting stiffer sentencing guidelines, I can understand why it did due to a lot of the associated crimes which have come along with this plague and what it does when it infests a neighborhood.

I'll say it again, because it bears repeating:  It's incredibly ironic that minority leaders have asked for all sorts of help in ridding their communities of crack and blight.  Now that's become a reality, they are upset about a disproportionate number of minorities sitting in prisons.

[mr.jaynes]

http://www.pinknoiz.com/covert/contracoke.html#IV

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB2/storm.htm

http://www.usdoj.gov/oig/special/9712/exsump2.htm#VII.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6r1KfHaIF_Y

http://dir.salon.com/story/news/feature/2004/10/25/contra/index.html?pn=1

....for starters.

[Neptune]

quote:Originally posted by MH2010

You lock up the drug dealers. They are pieces of $H!*.  The simple addicts need drug court.  Tulsa County has an outstanding program.  If they refuse to go into rehab and actively try to kick the habit, they need to be locked up or put on ankle monitors so they can be monitored and caught during their next crime spree to get their fix.   The damage they do to the community far outway any expense that is occurred by them being in prison, monitored or in a manditory lock-down rehab facility.

Drug Court is a great program.  That rehab deal, though, that's where the program suffers.  The state funds rehabs, sort of, but not enough.  Something to keep in mind, Rehabs usually work on very thin budgets.  Their "free-will" clientel are not necessarily wealthy people, and a lot of rehabs work at "break-even", without worrying about the concept of generating income.

And State funds come with strings, example:  I used to work at a big private non-profit rehab here, that gets state funds, but only under the prerequisite that they house people who are essentially insane criminal types.  People who will tell you they're not there for substance abuse, people who have serious mental issues.  The State closed a bunch of Mental facilities, then paid for some of those people to be housed at rehabs.  Normal people looking for help, have to deal with absolute nuts.  

Can't stop drug-related crimes, or drug and alcohol abuse, it's always going to be there.  But the Drug Court system in this County is fantastic, you are correct.  The rehabs themselves are hurting bad, one of these days rumors of closings are going to be reality.  The State needs to realize their value.

[tim huntzinger]

Jaynes, you ever check out Dennis Hopsicker's Madcow Morning News?  Nope, no links between the CIA and heroin and cocaine running.  Nope, no idea who the child molestor from Wright was for two days, just move along, everyone . . .

[mr.jaynes]

quote:Originally posted by tim huntzinger

Jaynes, you ever check out Dennis Hopsicker's Madcow Morning News?  Nope, no links between the CIA and heroin and cocaine running.  Nope, no idea who the child molestor from Wright was for two days, just move along, everyone . . .

Hey, they had to get the money from somewhere. How better to supply an army of terroristas than with the proceeds from drug trafficking?

[TheArtist]

quote:Originally posted by tim huntzinger

And to lump all drugs together as Artist has done is incorrect.  Crack, coke, and heroin all create addictions with little effort.  Crack was most definitely cooked up by the CIA and used to infiltrate poor minority communities.  Narcoterrorists have been aided by USA's intel agencies for decades.

Hey artist, you still think North Tulsans are too lazy and stupid to start their own grocery stores?

I was actually trying to point out the differences in drugs. Chocolate is not the same as marijuanna, marijuanna is not the same as meth. Please read what I wrote again.

As for North Tulsans being too lazy and stupid to start their own grocery store. I cant believe I would have ever said or suggested such a thing. You can go back through old posts and check but I am sure that is a mischaracterization at best.