Any Other Hammond Organ Players/Fans in Tulsa?

[Steve]

quote:Originally posted by Walter

Steve; Appreciate so much your interest in the 2300 Hammond.  I do really like the sound of it.
I believe mine is a 2307 rather than a 2312.  It has the black and walnut console with stainless steel pedals and trim.  Don't know the difference between the 2307 and 2307M.  This one had a 700 Leslie with it.

Yes, we have the same model Concorde.  Concorde series 2307.  The "07" designates the contemporary walnut/ebony cabinet, sans front console legs, with the silver plastic pedal board.  (It is just a conventional Hammond flat 25 pedal clavier with silver plastic covers.  A design hold-over from the 1960's X-66 model.)  Mine is the 2307M, the "M" designates that the organ has the "one finger chord" and "Note-A-Chord" easy play features, the two white push-buttons located on the console front below the on/off switch.  Two features that I never use, but I do check them every so often to make sure they still work!

The Concorde came in the "07" contemporary walnut/ebony cabinet (the most popular, like mine and yours), the "82" walnut Italian Provincial style, and the "95" Mediterranean style (truly hideous!)  The 82 and 95 cabinets had front legs, much like a piano cabinet style.  There was also an "07" variation mostly in white lacquer with a glass music rack, very rare to find today.

Let me think about your current problems and get back to you on this thread.  If I give it some time and just logically think about your problems and what I know about the Concorde operation, I may be able to pinpoint your problems.  And there may also be some service bulletins in my Concorde service manual that address your current problems.  As I recall, there are some service bulletins I have regarding the 2100 Concorde with similar problems; I will check it out and post back. []

[Conan71]

Steve, sent you a PM.

[Steve]

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

Steve, sent you a PM.

Got it.  Sent you 2 PM in return.  Let me know what you can about the Hammond.

[Steve]

quote:Originally posted by Walter

In the meantime; the main channel and Leslie Channel went dead.  This happened while I was playing it. The only way to get any sound out of it now is to have the Leslie console tabs on and the Leslie Chorus tab pushed down at the same time.
Otherwise it has a faint sound.  The faint sound does increase if you push the expression pedal, but it still sounds faraway and distant.
You can also push the expression pedal vibrato "off" switch with your foot and volume will come up with the Leslie tremolo tabs turned on.  After opening the organ and cleaning additional connectors, the lower manual is now completely dead.

Hi Walter,

After pouring over my 2100/2300 service manual, the only thing I can find that remotely resembles your problems is this:

"Random note failure and then total loss of organ.  This symptom occurs after taking the back of the organ off an plugging organ back in, everything seems normal until back panel is reinstalled.  Check D6 on 124-000266 MDD board."

The MDD (multiple derivitave divider) board is the top-octave generator board for the Concorde; the small IC circuit board that replaced the mechanical tonewheel generator of older models.  If memory serves me, it is located on the bottom shelf right side, mounted just outside the cardboard box covering the percussion divider boards.  It should have the Hammond part #124-000266 printed on it.  This one small circuit board is the true "guts" of any LSI Hammond organ, for its oscillator produces the top octave 13 notes, and all other Hammond tones are derived from this one board.  Without it working properly, the organ is just a 450 lb. doorstop.

The first thing I would do would be remove this board, clean contacts as you did on other boards, and reseat.  Leave the back off, plug the organ in and see if it comes back to life.  I can't tell you exactly what "D6" is, probably a diode or other small component on this board.  I have the complete schematic, along with much technical narrative concerning this board in my service manual (most of which is way over my head!), and I can have it scanned and send it to you if you need it.

If you plan on keeping and enjoying your Concorde for the long haul, I strongly urge you to obtain a 2100/2300 service manual.  I have seen them pop up on EBAY, or you could try Organ Service Company in IL, where I bought mine.  Great to have on hand if you have the electronic know-how, and invaluable to have when you hire a service tech that may not have a Concorde manual or Concorde experience.

[Walter]

quote:Originally posted by Steve

quote:Originally posted by Walter

Steve; Appreciate so much your interest in the 2300 Hammond.  I do really like the sound of it.
I believe mine is a 2307 rather than a 2312.  It has the black and walnut console with stainless steel pedals and trim.  Don't know the difference between the 2307 and 2307M.  This one had a 700 Leslie with it.

Yes, we have the same model Concorde.  Concorde series 2307.  The "07" designates the contemporary walnut/ebony cabinet, sans front console legs, with the silver plastic pedal board.  (It is just a conventional Hammond flat 25 pedal clavier with silver plastic covers.  A design hold-over from the 1960's X-66 model.)  Mine is the 2307M, the "M" designates that the organ has the "one finger chord" and "Note-A-Chord" easy play features, the two white push-buttons located on the console front below the on/off switch.  Two features that I never use, but I do check them every so often to make sure they still work!

The Concorde came in the "07" contemporary walnut/ebony cabinet (the most popular, like mine and yours), the "82" walnut Italian Provincial style, and the "95" Mediterranean style (truly hideous!)  The 82 and 95 cabinets had front legs, much like a piano cabinet style.  There was also an "07" variation mostly in white lacquer with a glass music rack, very rare to find today.

Let me think about your current problems and get back to you on this thread.  If I give it some time and just logically think about your problems and what I know about the Concorde operation, I may be able to pinpoint your problems.  And there may also be some service bulletins in my Concorde service manual that address your current problems.  As I recall, there are some service bulletins I have regarding the 2100 Concorde with similar problems; I will check it out and post back. []

[Walter]

Steve; thanks again.  Looks like I will have to get a service manual.  The main channel came back up after taking the #1 and #2 mixer boards off and cleaning the backs of them with a pencil eraser.  I had sprayed the connector with deoxit and reseated them, but when I looked at the backs of them, I could see they couldn't possibly work.  I cleaned the #3 mixer board which had "leslie" written on it. But it didn't bring the Leslie back in.  I now believe it is a mixer board problem and will keep cleaning and reseating.    Thanks again    

quote:Originally posted by Steve

quote:Originally posted by Walter

In the meantime; the main channel and Leslie Channel went dead.  This happened while I was playing it. The only way to get any sound out of it now is to have the Leslie console tabs on and the Leslie Chorus tab pushed down at the same time.
Otherwise it has a faint sound.  The faint sound does increase if you push the expression pedal, but it still sounds faraway and distant.
You can also push the expression pedal vibrato "off" switch with your foot and volume will come up with the Leslie tremolo tabs turned on.  After opening the organ and cleaning additional connectors, the lower manual is now completely dead.

Hi Walter,

After pouring over my 2100/2300 service manual, the only thing I can find that remotely resembles your problems is this:

"Random note failure and then total loss of organ.  This symptom occurs after taking the back of the organ off an plugging organ back in, everything seems normal until back panel is reinstalled.  Check D6 on 124-000266 MDD board."

The MDD (multiple derivitave divider) board is the top-octave generator board for the Concorde; the small IC circuit board that replaced the mechanical tonewheel generator of older models.  If memory serves me, it is located on the bottom shelf right side, mounted just outside the cardboard box covering the percussion divider boards.  It should have the Hammond part #124-000266 printed on it.  This one small circuit board is the true "guts" of any LSI Hammond organ, for its oscillator produces the top octave 13 notes, and all other Hammond tones are derived from this one board.  Without it working properly, the organ is just a 450 lb. doorstop.

The first thing I would do would be remove this board, clean contacts as you did on other boards, and reseat.  Leave the back off, plug the organ in and see if it comes back to life.  I can't tell you exactly what "D6" is, probably a diode or other small component on this board.  I have the complete schematic, along with much technical narrative concerning this board in my service manual (most of which is way over my head!), and I can have it scanned and send it to you if you need it.

If you plan on keeping and enjoying your Concorde for the long haul, I strongly urge you to obtain a 2100/2300 service manual.  I have seen them pop up on EBAY, or you could try Organ Service Company in IL, where I bought mine.  Great to have on hand if you have the electronic know-how, and invaluable to have when you hire a service tech that may not have a Concorde manual or Concorde experience.

[Steve]

Prior to around 1972, Hammond had the lion's share of the home and professional electronic organ market, mostly based on the unique tonewheel Hammond sound.  Then things started to change.  IC synthesizers hit the market, and pop music started to integrate the synthesizer sound.  I recall Donna Summer's 1978 recording of "I Feel Love" as a real breakthrough of the the electronic synthesizer sound.  The Hammond sound fell out of favor.  

Hammond abandoned the tonewheel generator, because it was so labor-intensive and expensive to produce, and because it had limitations regarding output tones.  Thus, they introduced the first LSI Hammond, the 2100 Concorde in 1972, as a measure to keep up with the competition.  The 2100 Concorde and similar Hammonds were full of electonic problems, and almost ruined the Hammond Organ Co.  They upgraded and resolved most of these problems with the introduction of the 2300 series Concorde around 1978, and the later LSI Hammonds such as the Elegante were great organs.

Hammond lasted more than any other US organ manufacturer, mostly coasting on their good name and reputation.  The original Hammond organ company, founded by Laurens Hammond in 1934, ceased operation in 1986, selling naming and model rights to an Austrailian company.  The Hammond name has changed hands multiple times over the past 20 years, becase it is such a valuable brand ID.  Current digital Hammond organs bearing the Hammond name are manufactured by the Hammond Suzuki Corporaton of Japan.

[DD]

Hi Steve! I'm new on this site and was interested in you're knowledge of hammond organs. My wife has a 1964 circa L-122 Hammond. It needs work. It was her Mom's, and probably never looked after as far as cleaning. May need new tubes etc. Any idea's where to find out what a total restoration would cost, or what it could possibly be worth? Thanks for any insight you may have!

DD.

[Steve]

quote:Originally posted by DD

Hi Steve! I'm new on this site and was interested in you're knowledge of hammond organs. My wife has a 1964 circa L-122 Hammond. It needs work. It was her Mom's, and probably never looked after as far as cleaning. May need new tubes etc. Any idea's where to find out what a total restoration would cost, or what it could possibly be worth? Thanks for any insight you may have!

DD.

A mint L100 organ in top playing condition is only worth around $200-$300 today, depending on local demand and availability.  Check EBAY for sales of L100 Hammonds as you see them there quite often.  The L100 is a spinet model.  The full sized consoles such as the A100 series, C Series, B series command the most money.  A mint 1950s-1960s B3 with mint matching Leslie can approach $10,000 depending on the local market.
 
The first thing I would do would be to give the internals a carefull vacuum and dusting.  Check for faulty wiring, rodent/insect damage, broken or loose wires, bad soldering connections, etc.  Pull all tubes and check for pin damage and clean all tube sockets with Deoxit spray and reseat tubes.  Eyeball for any obvious component failure, fire/overheating damage, etc.  Do all of this with the organ off and unplugged.

If the tone generator and run motor have not been oiled in a long time, you must oil these first before starting.  USE ONLY HAMMOND OIL!, a wax free highly refined turbine oil.  Anything else can gum up the oiling threads and cause major problems.  Oil the generator and the blue self-starting run motor per the instructions (should be printed inside the back case somewhere) and wait 5 days.  Then try to start the organ.  If it starts but squeals alot, immediately turn off and do the oiling procedure again.  Wait 5 more days, then try to start again.  Tonewheel generator Hammond use a complicated system of cotton threads to deliver oil to the tonewheels, bearings, clutches, and 100's of moving parts inside the generator.  It relies on capillary action to move the oil and can take days to fully lubricate a neglected generator, but it will eventually happen.  That is why it is so important to only use wax-free Hammond oil.  If your generator was oiled with anything else in the past, it may have gummed up the system and repairing it would only be for the dedicated enthusiast with the knowledge and time on their hands.  In that case, I would just sell the organ for parts on EBAY or locally.

Tubes are still relatively easy to find, either NOS U.S. or new Russian tubes.  Avoid Chinese made tubes as these are junk IMO.  If your L122 still has the tubes stamped Hammond in red, these are most likely the originals.  Hammonds put very little stress on the tubes and they can last 30-40 years, but not forever.  I replaced all the tubes in my A102 about 3 years ago, saving all the old ones for emergency replacements.

And the whole shebang of spinning wheels, gears, and electonic parts in a tonewheel Hammond is all run by a synchronus clock motor!  The run motor (invented by Laurens Hammond) is synchronus to the 60 cycle frequency of U.S. electric current, which means the organ can never go out of tune, as long as there is a reliable 60-cycle power source, and the organ is properly oiled & maintained.  A fascinating, complicated mechanical engineering feat, the likes of which we will never see again.

Try these tips and see if you can't get her running.  If not, post back and describe the problems and I will see if I can help.  Your problem may be as little as a faulty start switch; these things are hard to diagnose over the ether.  The L100 can be a nice little Hammond, but it really needs a Leslie with it.  It does have the important tonewheel generator, just not the bigger, more complex one found in the B/C/A100.  The vibrato system in the L100 is crap.  A Leslie would bring out all of its potential.

FYI, the M100 and L100 series were introduced in the early 1960s to replace the M3 model.  The M100 was the luxury version, the L100 was the econobox.  Your L122 means it is an L100 organ, the 22 means contemporary cabinet in walnut veneer.  The M100 organs introduced in Sept. 1961 had many features of their larger console brothers, including the important Hammond scanner vibrato system, and originally sold for $1,495.  The L100 series introduced at the same time, sold for $995, plus $50 for the bench!  The L100 series utilizes a magnetic phase-shift circuit for vibrato, giving an imitation but not true vibrato as in the M100.  Much cheaper to produce, hence the price difference.  The true Hammond scanner vibrato routes the output tones from the generator to a low-pass filter delay line. A rotating scanner then scans the outputs from the delay line at around 300 RPM, producing a true high/low frequency vibrato.  But I digress...  

[DD]

Wow!!! You really know your stuff. I don't think I'd be capable of all those repairs, because I'm not an eltronic type of guy. It has been neglected for so long, and obviously is not too rare. I guess that means it isn't worth too much, except for the sentimental value to my wife. Maybe, I'll donate it to someone who would be able to restore it. Thank you kindly, for taking the time to explain things to me. Learned more from your posting, than many, many Google searches. In fact Google led me to you!

[Steve]

quote:Originally posted by DD

Wow!!! You really know your stuff. I don't think I'd be capable of all those repairs, because I'm not an eltronic type of guy. It has been neglected for so long, and obviously is not too rare. I guess that means it isn't worth too much, except for the sentimental value to my wife. Maybe, I'll donate it to someone who would be able to restore it. Thank you kindly, for taking the time to explain things to me. Learned more from your posting, than many, many Google searches. In fact Google led me to you!

You're welcome DD.  No, it is not rare and not particularly valuable in today's secondary market, but it can be a great little organ for those that appreciate Hammond tonewheel organs.  It is often today a great "starter" organ for bands that want the original tonewheel sound but don't have a lot of money!  If you decide to depart with it, advertise it in the local paper and some local band may snap it up.

The tube check/cleaning and generator oiling I mentioned are all basic things any Hammond owner should know how to do and cheap procedures that can be done by anyone, regardless of their electronic knowledge.  Genuine Hammond oil and replacement tubes can be ordered online from www.goffprof.com or from many other online dealers.  I hate to see any tonewheel Hammond discarded when it may be a very cheap, easy fix.

You didn't mention exactly what the problems were.  The L100 has the self starting motor, so only one on/off switch.  When you plug her in and flip the switch, what happens?  Does the motor try to turn with much squealing?  Is there any audible internal sound at all?  Do the tubes light up?  Does the run motor try to turn the generator shaft, but the generator is frozen (due to lack of annual oiling?)  Is the organ totally dead?  Just curious.

(Trivia: I believe the L100 was the first Hammond to use the "self-starting" run motor.  The classic A100, B,C, RT organs all use the original 2-motor system.  A start motor to get the generator up to speed, then a second synchronus run motor to drive the generator at constant speed.  The synchronus run motor produces no torque, thus the initial start motor was needed.  It was sort of like starting an old car with a crank!  All the valuable tonewheel Hammonds out there today have the 2-switch start system, and many people think the organ will not work simply because they don't know how to properly start the thing!  That's a great clue to check if you have a Hammond that is worth considerable money today: look for the 2-switch starting system.  If it just has the single on/off switch, it is much less desireable today.)  

Hammond tonewheel organs were built to the highest of engineering and furniture standards of the day, to last for many, many generations.  They were actually "over engineered" in many respects.  They were built to be repaired, not discarded and replaced at the first sign of trouble as today's junk is made.  The last full-time Hammond exclusive repairman in Tulsa died about 6 years ago, so these days if the owner wants to keep his Hammond in top shape, you have to know about basic things.  I am no electronics expert either, but know much about Hammonds from being a 40-year owner, player, and history buff.  The great thing about a vintage, well maintained tonewheel Hammond is most common fixes are relatively cheap and easy to do.

[Steve]

Sorry, in all my previous discussions of Hammond tonewheel models, I failed to mention the R100 series, the very last tonewheel models introduced in 1970.  The R100 series was an extension of the E100 organs, with built in Hammond Rhythm II drum machine and and internal Leslie Rotosonic speaker.  The R100 lacked any Hammond vibrato system, the thinking being that the Leslie would compensate.  It did not.

[nurseeroc]

Hello all.

I just wanted to add a little tid bit to the conversation on Hammonds. I have found through some digging of my own, that it was recommended to take a hair dryer to the tone generator to loosen up and emulsify any oils that may have gotten coagulated inside the tone generator.

THIS WORKED! I have a Hammond CV organ, (which I recently have put on the market), and I was able to get that grinding generator sound to go away after weeks and weeks of trials.

I believe the problem was that the oiling funnels themselves were gummed up, and the oil I was putting in to the funnels was not reaching the tone generator.

So try this if you are having trouble! Ttyl,

[Steve]

quote:Originally posted by nurseeroc

Hello all.

I just wanted to add a little tid bit to the conversation on Hammonds. I have found through some digging of my own, that it was recommended to take a hair dryer to the tone generator to loosen up and emulsify any oils that may have gotten coagulated inside the tone generator.

THIS WORKED! I have a Hammond CV organ, (which I recently have put on the market), and I was able to get that grinding generator sound to go away after weeks and weeks of trials.

I believe the problem was that the oiling funnels themselves were gummed up, and the oil I was putting in to the funnels was not reaching the tone generator.

So try this if you are having trouble! Ttyl,

Thanks nurseeroc, yes heat applied can loosen gummed up tonewheels and bearings, but my thoughts are that this will only be a temporary fix.  Sounds like your problems were caused by the wrong oil being fed to the generator.  Hammond service manuals also recommended a liberal spraying of WD-40 to loosen gummed up components.

In all, only use a wax-free turbine oil when oiling a Hammond generator or vibrato scanner.  This oil is cheap and readily available today from Hammond restorations shops and dealers all over the U.S., either locally or via the internet.  Do it right the first time, and save yourself months of expense and headaches later.  People sometimes oil a Hammond generator with 3-In-1, even auto motor oil.  This is a big "no-no" and an invitation to disaster.  Removing the generator and de-gunking is not cheap, as hundreds of wires must be unsoldiered, and resoldiered.  Hammond tone generators use windings of tiny cotton threads to deliver lubricating oil to the hundreds of moving parts in the generator.  It uses only gravity and capillary action to move the oil along the threads and deliver it to all the moving parts.  A neglected tone generator may take weeks, months to cure all squeaks using the proper oil, but it will fix itself eventually.  They sure don't build them like that anymore.

The oiling funnels on the generator just funnel the oil to a trough, where the cotton threads soak it up and deliver the oil to the parts via capillary action.  When you put oil in the funnels, it should disappear down the system within 3-4 seconds.  If not, your oil funnels are clogged with debris.      

[mdunn]

Hammonds have a sound all of their own,my father always had one,great instrument!