Home Depot and Zero Water

[Ed W]

I was in Home Depot this afternoon.  A salesman offered a small cup of water from his Zero water filtration system, and showed me the difference between tap, bottled, and filtered water.  His gadget looks like an electronic thermometer, but he says it measures the "stuff" in the water.  He wasn't exactly sure what the "stuff" was, but he could measure it.  Naturally, the Zero system measured...you guessed it...zero.  All the other water was between 90 and 170 on the stuff-o-meter.

Then I asked if it removed giardia or viruses.  "Well, not yet", he responded.  "But we're adding a biologicals filter soon."

I asked if this was a reverse-osmosis device.  "No", he said, "it's a triple filter."  I thought triple filters were for vodka.

Then I asked if it removed fluorides.  "Oh, yes!  it removes all the fluoride."  I said I have kids in the house and fluoride is good for their teeth.  "Oh, no, fluoride is a poison.  Read the label on a toothpaste tube.  It says if you swallow it to seek medical attention."

Now, I don't mind talking with a salesman just doing his job, but I do object to the use of misinformation and fear mongering as a sales tactic.  I'll give the guy points for doing a good presentation, but when my personal nut job alarm started sounding, I left quickly.

But there's a question in this after all - should a retailer permit on-site sales by an outside company when that company engages in deceptive sales practices?

[RecycleMichael]

That guy was all wet.

[Ed W]

I wish I'd thought of that.

[patric]

It would make for some interesting reading before deciding one way or another.

Sodium Fluoride is a by-product of aluminum manufacturing and is also used as a rat poison.  Hydrofluorosilicic acid is a by-product of the manufacture of phosphate fertilizers.

Each is promoted in very, very small quantities as an additive to help slow tooth decay, but it's effectiveness is inconclusive and the long-term effects are unknown (and very controversial).  

Jury's still out on this one.

[rwarn17588]

To say fluoride's effects in preventing tooth decay is inconclusive is not true. Tooth decay has dropped by nearly 70 percent since the 1960s, and that's when fluoridation started.

Sure, fluoride can be harmful if you're ingesting barrels of it. As they say, too much of anything is bad for you. But the small amounts in drinking water isn't going to do anything like that.

[brunoflipper]

Patric??

[patric]

quote:Originally posted by brunoflipper

Patric??

LOL!!!

Naaah, I havent lost my essence.
But im going to try to keep an open mind...
(and that movie was one of the first things that popped into it).
 
...would be kinda funny 100 years from now to find out someone had cut a killer deal to dispose of their industrial waste, tho.  
Keep in mind 19th C. doctors used to prescribe mercury pills to cure all sorts of ailments.



It seems that there are medical professionals as convinced that fluoride is beneficial as there are those convinced that it's slow poison, so it's really up to you to read and decide.

I give it a MythBusters (tm) rating of "Plausible", but im perched on the fence with this one.

[TheArtist]

Water is poisonous.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_intoxication

What friggin isnt poisonous in some amount or another. Iodine in salt? Salt itself? Just about every vitamin can be poisonous or toxic as well as any minerals. Zink, Iron, calcium...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_poisoning

[cannon_fodder]

I agree, fluoridation of water is widely accepted to help strengthen developing teeth.  New research even suggests it can help repair/fight cavity formations in their early stages.

And yes it is a poison.  So is nearly everything we put in our bodies if given at a high enough dose.  C02 is a byproduct of breathing... yet too much and we suffocate (gasp!).  Drink too much water and you flush away the electrolytes and you can die.  Too much electrolytes?  Also a problem.

Stating that something is dangerous at high levels is kind of a given.

[Conan71]

Ed, reverse osmosis or RO is a membrane filtration system.  But the Einstein you talked to probably doesn't have a clue that RO is a flitration system.

Expensive filtration units are one of the biggest frauds perpetrated on the unsuspecting public.  Tulsa city water is very good quality municipal water.  

The "stuff-o-meter" the fellow was using was most likely a TDS or conductivity meter.  It's nothing more than an Ohm meter in reverse.  Instead of measuring resistance, it measures conductance expressed as micromhos (Ohm spelled backwards).  Pure water by itself is actually a poor conductor of electricity.  The more dissolved solids in water, the more current will flow.  

Dissolved solids like calcium, magnesium, chlorides, carbonates, bicarbonates, trace amounts of iron, etc. are in the form of salts and raise the specific conductance of water.

The general philosophy of these manufacturers is to suggest there is a dark chemical mystery about water best left to some anonymous wonk in their lab.  They don't tell the reps who sell these units any more than enough information than to scare the crap out of people who, in reality, only know slightly less about water than the rep trying to sell them this miracle device.

[Ed W]

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

Ed, reverse osmosis or RO is a membrane filtration system.  But the Einstein you talked to probably doesn't have a clue that RO is a flitration system.

When I asked about reverse osmosis, he did say it requires an outside power source, and the system he was flogging didn't.  It's a triple filter, but it still doesn't remove viruses.

I should have thought of mho's.  I'm a professional electronics geek, after all.  Maybe I'll hunt up one of my cheap digital multi-meters to leave in the car for the next time.  But I'll forget about it.  I always do.

We were able to access the lab results for local water once upon a time.  I remember seeing something about Owasso's water having a temporary spike in fecal coliform, if I recall right.  But I can't find that webpage anymore.

[Conan71]

I used to work with water and chemicals related to it on an industrial level for seven years.  And I used to stay at Holiday Inn Express all the time when I worked for that company. []

We only concerned ourselves with the DS content of intake water for heat exchange systems, and CODs, BODs, DS, SS, etc. in industrial waste streams.  

Never got into issues like fecal coliforms and algae blooms in municipal water, though legionella, algae, sulfate-reducing bacteria, and various slimes were among issues we did work with on large evaporative cooling systems.

I've still got a conductivity meter or two laying around if I ever decide to go cut heads with one of these noids they hire for "purification" systems.

About the only thing of value they remove is money from your wallet.

[RecycleMichael]

Here is a link to the current City of Owasso water quality report. It tested excellent(it is the same as the City of Tulsa water).

http://www.cityofowasso.com/water_quality_report/index.html

There have been years where fecal coliform have been a slight issue. It comes mostly from bird poop (stinking boids). Try as they might, the government cannot get the birds to use proper restroom facilities.