You may/may not be guess who wants to repeal 1804

[sgrizzle]

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/fn/5330080.html

... construction companies and homebuilders associations... I thought they "weren't using illegal immigrants."


Posted because I'm sure DoubleA will be all over this.

[guido911]

quote:Originally posted by sgrizzle

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/fn/5330080.html

... construction companies and homebuilders associations... I thought they "weren't using illegal immigrants."


Posted because I'm sure DoubleA will be all over this.

From the article: "Retailers and employers whose success depends on Latino business and workers have felt the pinch since Oklahoma's anti-illegal immigrant law went into effect on Nov. 1."

Shouldn't this read: "Retailers and employers whose success depends on illegal, trespasser Latino business and workers have felt the pinch since Oklahoma's anti-illegal immigrant law went into effect on Nov. 1.

[sgrizzle]

Not really, they depend on latino business. If they are still operating, then they weren't dependent solely on illegal immigrants. You could say they "partially depend" on illegal immigrants, but not fully.

[cannon_fodder]

Well then soon home buyers, commercial entities, and realtors will be missing them.  But... as long as the feds are not willing to do anything the problem will remain with the states.  Who will either do nothing, open their arms, or shut their doors.  No middle ground and no real solution - just reactions to the problem.

Stupid imperial federal government.  That's why I'm voting for Hillary... because like social security, the war, the budget and taxes she has promised to look at immigration when she is elected.  I've always elected officials who don't know what they think until AFTER they are elected.  /sarcasm

[Conan71]

I was just in one of the larger industrial laundry plants this morning.  No shortage of Hispanic workers.  I specifically asked the production manager about the fall-out from HB 1804 and he said he's only lost five workers in the last month that he can directly attribute to the bill.  I don't have a clue how many people work there, but there were at least 40 cars or so around the plant.

After that, I drove a few blocks away to a commercial construction project.  Electricians, plumbers, roofers, and some guys getting ready to assemble a large walk-in cooler.  Not a single Hispanic on the job site out of about 15 men.

Draw your own conclusions.  I've been told by a few people that the Hispanics who are here are trying to be less visible.  Perhaps they think it's easier to be "spotted" if they are working outdoors on a construction project from the street, rather than "hidden" deep inside some sort of plant.  

We've got an insulator who contracts with us who was "legalized" by the immigration act of '86 who has given me some pretty good info on what's happening in the local Hispanic community.  I never paid attention before, but when I do see a Hispanic at the gas pump, their windows are almost always tinted.  But the fender flares and horse etchings on the back window of their Chevy truck is still a dead giveaway. [}:)]

We've had a shortage of good help since long before HB-1804, so I really don't see where it's put the pinch on the company I work for.  It might dilute the pool of unskilled laborers who are now assuming jobs formerly occupied by Hispanics, but not in the skilled trades area.  Prior to passage, I'd say less than 10% of our job applicants were Hispanic.

[Double A]

quote:Originally posted by sgrizzle

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/fn/5330080.html

... construction companies and homebuilders associations... I thought they "weren't using illegal immigrants."


Posted because I'm sure DoubleA will be all over this.

If they need employees, they should get in contact with the labor unions in town, they will be happy to fill these jobs.

[Rico]

quote:Originally posted by Double A

quote:Originally posted by sgrizzle

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/fn/5330080.html

... construction companies and homebuilders associations... I thought they "weren't using illegal immigrants."


Posted because I'm sure DoubleA will be all over this.

If they need employees, they should get in contact with the labor unions in town, they will be happy to fill these jobs.

"Union"....?
That is an inflationary term.... double talk... lingo... for "Communism"......

That's why we have "Right To Work" and "Whirlpool"...  No "Communism in Oklahoma"...


Below is a paid commercial announcement for the "Employ all Americans Foundation"

No mejicanos para hacer su trabajo?

Bueno, llama el Senor Doble A.. El si puede limpiar su jardin.!

[inteller]

quote:Originally posted by sgrizzle

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/fn/5330080.html

... construction companies and homebuilders associations... I thought they "weren't using illegal immigrants."


Posted because I'm sure DoubleA will be all over this.

I hope that this drives hundreds of shady companies out of business.  Once we get rid of the people who caused this problem in the first place, the illegals will go away.

[Double A]

BTW, here's a shocker, I oppose "son of 1804". Although, I must admit I do support the provision about seizing the assets of Employers who use illegal labor, the rest of it I disagree with. Terrill's political opportunism regarding this issue is becoming more like legislative McCarthyism than good public policy, law and order. If he wants to change the 14th amendment he should get himself elected to federal office and start the process there. Last time I checked, the Constitution supersedes state law. This provision just seems to be a frivolous waste of time and resources, an empty gesture for pure political posturing.

[guido911]

quote:Originally posted by Double A

BTW, here's a shocker, I oppose "son of 1804". Although, I must admit I do support the provision about seizing the assets of Employers who use illegal labor, the rest of it I disagree with. Terrill's political opportunism regarding this issue is becoming more like legislative McCarthyism than good public policy, law and order. If he wants to change the 14th amendment he should get himself elected to federal office and start the process there. Last time I checked, the Constitution supersedes state law. This provision just seems to be a frivolous waste of time and resources, an empty gesture for pure political posturing.

Son of 1804:

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=071126_1_A1_spanc32887

[guido911]

It would be interesting to see how the birth certificate aspect of the son of 1804 would play out, given the issuance and regulation of birth certificates generally falls within the authority of state government and not the federal government. Lucky for me there are numerous constitutional scholars on this forum like who can quickly answer how this could/could not be done.

[rwarn17588]

You got it.

The Constitution says:

Also: "No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States."

Since people born on American soil are given automatic citizenship as explicitly spelled out in the 14th Amendment of the Constitution, it's not hard to figure out that not issuing birth certificates to American citizens is abridging a privilege.

[Hometown]

Both HB 1804 and the Oklahoma Republican drive to further gut state government have put us a trajectory that could lead to a second Okie migration.

[iplaw]

quote:Originally posted by rwarn17588

You got it.

The Constitution says:

Also: "No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States."

Since people born on American soil are given automatic citizenship as explicitly spelled out in the 14th Amendment of the Constitution, it's not hard to figure out that not issuing birth certificates to American citizens is abridging a privilege.

Still trotting out this line of crap?  You lost this argument 6 months ago with me (remember the discussion about "anchor babies").  There is no law granting automatic citizenship to people born on American soil unless they are born to legal citizens/immigrants, and case law makes this abundantly clear.

Unless you can point me to a case that states differently (and you couldn't 6 months ago)...

[guido911]

quote:Originally posted by rwarn17588

You got it.

The Constitution says:

Also: "No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States."

Since people born on American soil are given automatic citizenship as explicitly spelled out in the 14th Amendment of the Constitution, it's not hard to figure out that not issuing birth certificates to American citizens is abridging a privilege.

RW: Please, for once, just stop. Not all persons born "on American soil are given automotic citizenship." First, the statement in the Fourteeth Amenment you claim supports your point states "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State they reside." In the Slaughter-House Cases,  83 U.S. 36, 73 (1872), the U.S. Supreme Court explained that "subject to its jurisdiction" excluded from its operation "children of ministers, consuls, and citizens or subjects of foreign States born within the United States."

Another interesting point from those cases was the impact the 14th Amendment had on national citizenship versus state citizenship. Indeed, in Snowden v. Hughes, 321 U.S. 1, 6-7, 64 S.Ct. 397,400 (1944), the U.S. Supreme Court stated: "The protection extended to citizens of the United States by the privileges and immunities clause includes those rights and privileges which, under the laws and Constitution of the United States, are incident to citizenship of the United States, but does not include rights pertaining to state citizenship and derived solely from the relationship of the citizen and his state established by state."

In my post, I was simply making the point that the issuance of birth certificates is a function exclusive to the state. I would be interested to know if the federal givernment could compel Oklahoma to issue a birth certificate.