'Complete Our Streets' Committee Recommendations

[spoonbill]

I'm starting to think the sweater tax is a good idea!

[PonderInc]

Can anyone remember what this thread was about...?

[Chicken Little]

quote:Originally posted by PonderInc

Can anyone remember what this thread was about...?

Yes, it is about the Complete our Streets Committee Recommendations.  Apparently, some folks have pages and pages of reasons why we shouldn't fix our streets, ranging from, "faulty premise" to, "incorrect information".  Oh, yeah...and, "huh?"...sorry FB, almost forgot you.  It's mostly wingnut tax apoplexy.  If we could mix this stubborn brand of hysteria with an ashpalt binder, we could fix our street problems forever.  You think this is bad, go peruse the Tulsa World site.

[FOTD]

[/quote]
Tulsa COUNTY residents will be paying 6/10 higher sales taxes until 2017 to pay off Vision 2025.

Vision 2025 was a sinecure for the Rooney and Flint financial interests.

4-to-Fix-the-County was Matrix and Flint's sinecure.

The Kaiser River Tax was planned to help line the pockets of Atkins-Benham, and You-Know-Who's bank as non-competitive bid bond underwriter, just like they did in Vision 2025.

The proposed new Bond/Sales Tax grab is providing orgasmic ecstasy fantasies to Sherwood Construction, Beeco, and the associated cabal of crony contractors and sub-contractors who get all the local street work.

Who said: Crime Doesn't Pay?
[/quote]

Snap!

[Friendly Bear]

quote:Originally posted by AVERAGE JOE

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

Borrowing from Wilbur's last post, COT's payroll keeps growing with new jobs, yet we seem to get fewer essential services typically provided by municipal government.  One thing I think would be useful for the administration to do is to do a department-by-department audit, figure out which positions are non-essential and eliminate them.  There appears to be plenty of private sector jobs available right now for the taking to offset any losses from city payrolls.

Wilbur's last post was shot down by facts. The city has 168 fewer authorized employees than in 1996. The city payroll does not keep growing with new jobs.

The city outsourced to SMG and displaced a number of city of tulsa positions that are associated with the Maxwell Convention Center, and the upcoming Arena.

[blindnil]

That's not true. SMG hired all of the city workers who wanted to join their company. The city workers who were close to retirement could stay within the city system.

[Friendly Bear]

quote:Originally posted by blindnil

That's not true. SMG hired all of the city workers who wanted to join their company. The city workers who were close to retirement could stay within the city system.

Fine.  I'm glad they weren't cut loose.  

Nonetheless, they are no longer counted in the City of Tulsa personnel FTE's.

That could be part of the reason for the absolute # of decline.

[swake]

quote:Originally posted by PonderInc

Can anyone remember what this thread was about...?

It's about proving once and for all to waterboy that Friendly Bears posts are just as pointless and nonsensical as TripleSevenMob's

[Wilbur]

quote:Originally posted by Chicken Little

quote:Originally posted by Wilbur

We should all care that our sales taxes, and all other taxes for that matter, continue to rise and we end up further in the hole.  While a portion of the recent sales tax increases are considered county taxes, the city is getting to spend the majority of it, and, like you said, will be stuck with the expenditures of the arena.

And while you may be able to say the city hasn't raised sales taxes in 23 years, look at other items the city charges for that have raised.  Don't forget, you also pay city taxes on your electric bill, water, gas bill, phone bill, cell phone bill, cable tv bill, ......  and fees for other items.  These aren't sales taxes, but they are all considered income used by the government (which equal taxes).

And don't tell me I pay less taxes then everyone else.  I keep track of every tax I pay, and as of today, for 2007, 48.1% of my total expenditures have gone to taxes.  We live off my wife's salary and we use my total salary to pay taxes.  Plus, this year we will get nailed by AMT (yes, more taxes)  And you are suggesting we should pay more!

Feel free to donate as much as you wish.

Two years ago this city said our priority was an arena (and has been a priority for how many years?  How many times did we have to vote on that thing?)  Now we're all stuck with that tax for several years.  Then a new city hall was a priority.  Then the river was a priority.  Now all of a sudden, streets are the priority, but we haven't paid off all the other priorities yet.  And after the streets priority, what's next?  Can't wait 'till they tell us a new city building will be needed downtown (after the move to city hall).  Just wait, that will be another priority.

Who says I don't care about taxes?  The better question is, why are you willing to let your city crater, literally?  Is it because you are mad about the AMT?  Are broken struts, bulging sidewalls, and warped rims your way "sticking it to the man"?  Seems costly, and a little cryptic.  I mean, you could try the direct approach and just call your Republican senators and ask to stop holding up the bill that would raise the threshold.

That crap on your electric bill is rent that AEP pays the city in order to protect their monopoly.  They call it a tax so that you will be mad at somebody else, but it's just a cost of doing business that they pass through to you the consumer.  And water is not a tax, it's a service.  Gimme a break.  No wonder you are paying 48.1% in taxes...everthing's a tax to you.  Is winter a tax?  How about when you spill soup on your sweater, is that a tax, too?

I'm sensing we'll be canceling out each others' vote.  []

[waterboy]

quote:Originally posted by swake

quote:Originally posted by PonderInc

Can anyone remember what this thread was about...?

It's about proving once and for all to waterboy that Friendly Bears posts are just as pointless and nonsensical as TripleSevenMob's

[]Honestly, you guys are on a different plane than I am. I just try to keep up and add insights. FB makes strong points in an interesting manner (so did Goebbels!). However, I note that when pressed to provide proof or invited to act upon his beliefs, he does neither. TippleSeven on the other hand, like Paul Tay, is a Molotov. I suspect there is some truth to be gleaned from all of them.

I am clenching my teeth in order to not blurt out a "told ya so" about what many of us felt during the Kaiser river debacle. There can be no roads package of taxes proposed to the public that is palatable to FB and friends. Their plate is full of envy, distrust and conspiracy theories. No room left for infrastructure tax. Unless it goes on someone else's plate.

[Chicken Little]

quote:Originally posted by Wilbur

I'm sensing we'll be canceling out each others' vote.  []

Nah.  I have a feeling you'll come around.[]  The main things I'm seeing so far are that:  a) the city doesn't seem to be rolling in money and hasn't since 2001 (if not before), and b) fixing streets, which is apparently a business that is heavily oil and material dependent, has gotten way more expensive.

At some point we are going to have to pony up, I'm almost certain of that.  But, I really like that the SOS group said that Tulsans should lobby to get car tag money back from the state to the tune of $50 million a year.   The state of Oklahoma, which is running a $228 million a year surplus because of oil and gas revenue, can afford it.  And they will probably continue to do very well as those things remain expensive (forever?).  If they are going to make money on oil, then they should probably pass through some of the windfall to the cities, who are going to suffer because they have to pay a lot more for things like asphalt and diesel to fix roads.

There are still things that I am concerned about.  The SOS guy's recommendation, clearly shows that they have split street rehab and street expansion into seperate funding sources.  The 3rd penny and GO bond always lump them together.  If maintaining streets is a problem, then should we really be growing this problem?  Or, should we be looking for smarter solutions?  So, I'd be happy to see one line item for rehab, and another for expansion, and maybe even another for mass transit.  Let us voters decide the direction for our future, not the streets department.

[spoonbill]

Just some food for thought.  We have a very harsh climate for streets.  We get very hot and then very cold, and in Oklahoma, sometimes we do this within a 12 hour period causing cold asphalt to react to hot air quickly.  This weakens the surface, and once the cracks form, it doesn't take much to destroy the surface.

You can travel across the country and see that in the USDA zone 6 cities streets are poor for this same reason.  

This makes comparison to Dallas or Houston, or any of the northern cities difficult.  

The surface of our streets is forced to be more elastic due to the fluctuations in temperature and we just have to live with that.  

I have high hopes that global warming will push us into zone 7 or 8 soon and our streets will be in better shape.  We will also be able to grow bigger tomatoes.

Hurry up global warming!  I'm cold!

[Rico]

quote:Originally posted by spoonbill

Just some food for thought.  We have a very harsh climate for streets.  We get very hot and then very cold, and in Oklahoma, sometimes we do this within a 12 hour period causing cold asphalt to react to hot air quickly.  This weakens the surface, and once the cracks form, it doesn't take much to destroy the surface.

You can travel across the country and see that in the USDA zone 6 cities streets are poor for this same reason.  

This makes comparison to Dallas or Houston, or any of the northern cities difficult.  

The surface of our streets is forced to be more elastic due to the fluctuations in temperature and we just have to live with that.  

I have high hopes that global warming will push us into zone 7 or 8 soon and our streets will be in better shape.  We will also be able to grow bigger tomatoes.

Hurry up global warming!  I'm cold!

See this were I differ with the "zone 7 or 8" synopsis......

I would prefer that our weather causes us to build a subway system... say similar to Toronto..

No automobiles needed.!

[Chicken Little]

What's up, gang?  Are you plum out of reasons why we shouldn't fix our streets?  Did anybody listen to the KFAQ interview with former Street Commissioner Jim Hewgley?  He's a conservative, right?  He knows what he's talking about, right?  What'd he say?  

Did he say that we don't need to raise taxes?(, Chicken Little asked, knowingly.)

The link is on Batesline.com.

[USRufnex]

quote:Originally posted by TURobY

With all the negativity, you'd wonder why anybody would even live here... [xx(]

^+1

No kidding.