Urban Tulsa embarrasses Roscoe and Jack

[tim huntzinger]

Look, I am no engrish major or journalist, but it does not take one for the article to fail the sniff test for shennanigans. I did not write the op-ed portraying The Duo as race-baiting do nothings engaged in political grandstanding while North Tulsans starve.

Consider the line 'presumably implying that it was a result of the direction he gave to Levinson.' Who presumed that? The author. Unless Turner said that, why presume the implication?

And why no quotes from Westcott, hmmmm? Who was the source for this scandalous revelation?

[rwarn17588]

In other words: "I don't like the article, so it can't be true."

You've provided no evidence that it's inaccurate, just assumptions that it is.

If it's inaccurate, put up or shut up.

[Double A]

quote:Originally posted by rwarn17588

In other words: "I don't like the article, so it can't be true."

You've provided no evidence that it's inaccurate, just assumptions that it is.

If it's inaccurate, put up or shut up.

There's no evidence to back up anything in this article. Nothing in this article can be proved, it's all hearsay. I know that passes for fact in the Tulsa Whirled, but not in the real world. I guess it all comes down to who you trust. Tulsa already knows who to trust:

[tim huntzinger]

Kind of hard to dispute an op-ed is what I am finding.  I think the onus is on suburban tulsa weakly to demonstrate that the Duo are the foot-dragging loudmouths trying to grandstand while their folk are starving.  Their op-ed does not do that.  They make the accusations and do not adequately back them up.

Soooo Mitchell will not open his store if he is not held hands with by The Duo?  Do they need to kiss his ring, too? Is Westcott's firm recusing itself from any business related to this deal? Was Westcott acting on behalf of his firm or as a Councilor?  Why no quotes from Westcott?

[cannon_fodder]

Please, for the love of god... tell us who you interviewed?  Who gave you documents to back up their story?  

[edit rant out]

Seriously, as much as you hate the author, the article, the publication and the outcome... they put something on the table.  You have not.  I could care less about Turner, Wescott, or whomever else.  But you have made no case.  You are actually convincing me to support the UTW in this.  If supporters of these guys can fund nothing to back them up, I'll assume there is nothing.

[tim huntzinger]

This IS getting weary. Sigghhhh.

UTW puts out a lame ad hominem attack on two duly elected Councilors.  Somehow in that OP-ED we are somehow supposed to 'get' that the snarkily coined Duo are failing their constituents by missing a meeting with a client/friend of Westcott's law firm.

If suburban tulsa weakly wants to cause disunity and division among our elected leaders, they are free to do so.  Just because they want to make a case that the 'Duo' are do-nothing race-baiters without backing it up, well, how is that my responsibility to understand? What is the controversy, anyway? That Westcott felt slighted because he hosted a meeting with a friend/client of his law firm's partner and did not get props?

For the love of Pete, CF . . .

[waterboy]

Its not just CF. He is making more sense than you. First off, unless you're a journalist or have tremendous insight of the trade, you are doing no more or less than ranting over a story you don't like and have less info on than they do. Repeatedly asked for your sources and provided none.

Then you ignore that this is not a legal case where they have to prove guilt or innocence. They simply report on a story. Who, What, Why, When and Where using their own research. You don't like that because it skewers your guys. Take a fresh look at these guys or get the Eagle to do a piece from your perspective.

Lastly consider this. If your area had no grocery stores, would you want your councilor to do anything less than actively, fervently, doggedly and professionally use any source and any persuasive ability to get you one? They didn't. If the picture portrayed is not factually perfect it appears that much is true. They played politics and got burned.

[tim huntzinger]

What have I asserted other than the story is full of missing pieces and (IMHO) hard to follow? What sources do I need to express an opinion? My source is the article: Turner et al met with Mitchell, so what is Westcott-not-Westcott whining about?  DUHHHHH my opinion is a rant, what is new?

suburban tulsa weakly declares them guilty, not me. And they do not make their case.  STW are the ones taking the broadsides at the Duo after a tip from . . . who? Who gave the tip, H2O, boy? Who? Why?  The only one that can answer that is the essayist, and that was left out.

How did the Duo get burned? They met with Mitchell, the City is involved, where is the problem? Turner sez they were left out of the loop, and it looks like that is true to some degree; the only problem is Westcott feels slighted, poor baby.

HEY, 'UTW' FANS: NICE IGNORING THE FACT THAT THE RAGAZINE ACTUALLY BLAMES 'THE DUO' FOR AN EMPTY STORE.  You all want to blame them for high crime, too?

[cannon_fodder]

Thank you Tim.  Finally you admit that it is just your opinion.

Your opinion is not enough to sway the interviews, sources, and documentation the UTW was able to put together.  Until someone is able to do so, I will buy into their version of events.

Please, I am not on a witch hunt.  I have nothing against Turner or anyone else on a personal level, I don't even know them.  But when a report comes out about a public servant scuttling development and then complaining about the lack thereof, and seemingly doing so for personal gain... that is an issue of concern.

If that is not what happened and this accusation is unfair, I would be interested in learning that.  It would cast a long shadow on the "investigative" reporting of the UTW in the future.  But until such a time I am forced to side with the party who did some research and is not merely stating an opinion.

Do you understand where I am coming from?

[tim huntzinger]

UTW asserts that the store is empty because of political grandstanding because of 'The Duo'   (hunting dragons, I believe).  I see no evidence to back THAT up, do you?

[waterboy]

It is a rag, Tim. BTW, one that I abhor. Nonetheless, a source of journalism no less interesting or reliable than the Drudge report. Why do you feel it necessary that they expose who tipped them off to the story when most newspapers fight to keep sources secret lest they dry up? Assume it was Westcott if you will.  Why would that matter if there is any truth to the allegations. Once again we are not in court. All Roscoe had to do was pick up a phone immediately and call the St.Louis grocer unless....he had someone else he preferred in the wings.  

Roscoe denies the story just like Roger Clemens denial of steroid use. Well, anything can be denied till you're under oath and have to think of the consequences. Too Bad. Now that the story broke in the UT (Utterly Tastless), I suppose the World won't touch it.

Don't think these two Northside Councilors were not burned by the fire even if it was just a trash fire. Their constituents may have been distracted by the power outages, but the story will not go unnoticed.

[Double A]

quote:Originally posted by waterboy

It is a rag, Tim. BTW, one that I abhor. Nonetheless, a source of journalism no less interesting or reliable than the Drudge report. Why do you feel it necessary that they expose who tipped them off to the story when most newspapers fight to keep sources secret lest they dry up? Assume it was Westcott if you will.  Why would that matter if there is any truth to the allegations. Once again we are not in court. All Roscoe had to do was pick up a phone immediately and call the St.Louis grocer unless....he had someone else he preferred in the wings.  

Roscoe denies the story just like Roger Clemens denial of steroid use. Well, anything can be denied till you're under oath and have to think of the consequences. Too Bad. Now that the story broke in the UT (Utterly Tastless), I suppose the World won't touch it.

Don't think these two Northside Councilors were not burned by the fire even if it was just a trash fire. Their constituents may have been distracted by the power outages, but the story will not go unnoticed.

If there was a shred of truth to this sensationalized soap opera, I have a hard time believing the Whirled wouldn't be all over it, due to their longstanding vendetta against Turner and Henderson. I think the fact the Whirled hasn't picked it up only reinforces what Tim's been saying. I've heard Keith(UTW publisher) has a nasty habit of "editing". I wonder if that might be the case(Even Bates, has complained about this in his columns) because this doesn't seem like Ervin's normal style of writing to me.

Bates, I am calling you out. What's the deal with this story? Spill it.

[tim huntzinger]

And why he is on the line, ask him why that POS dragazine pretending to be conservative feels it is an elected official's duty to find tenants for an empty store.  What happened to the free market and all that? BS.

Not only are they assuming that it is Big Bad Gubmint's job to supply a grocery store, they take the extra step and BLAME 'The Duo' for the lack of a grocery store.

What a crock.  What a joke.  What a sham and a charade.  Go pitch yer gubmint funded schools and OPAC BS somewhere else you morons.

H20, I frankly find it hard to tell what Roscoe was replying to when he said he had been left out of the loop.  He acknowledges that Westcott gave him information, so why does he say he had been left out?

If a business lead comes to the City, whose primary responsibility is it to chase down: $150K+ salaried Himelfarb or an $18K Councilor? Take a pick, this is another example of how frigging dysfunctional 'Tulsa' is.  UTW decided to focus on 'The Duo.' Why?

[waterboy]

The World will allow a reasonable period of time to elapse before reporting on the story, if indeed it is a real story. Do not underestimate the competitiveness and fierce defense of what the World sees as "their market".  UT, TulsaNow and other more in touch venues are mere R&D type operations for them. Sort of volunteer news gatherers. They are arrogant but no more so than any media. UT will never be sourced if it is a story.

Step back and look at the process. Roscoe and Turner have used their oppressed north side leader status to needle the administration and even help thwart development plans. They played their political roles with confidence because frankly, they had little to lose since no other leaders have emerged from their base. Now, it appears they overplayed and the press loves to build up the underdog into icons, then destroy them. Its a balancing act that keeps people involved in their newspaper. They couch that into more palatable terms, "Comfort the afflicted...Afflict the comfortable", whatever.

UT is as conservative as they can afford to be. A Catholic publisher pushing for public schools? Not likely. Ever see a pro-life op-ed piece in those pages? A weekly whose main feature columnist is Bates? Get real. In Tulsa terms they are moderate Republican and are racked with hypocrisy sinced they promote the very sins that erode the community fabric, alcoholism and pornography. You are overreacting I think. But maybe I am too with that last line.[]

edit: As far as whose responsibility to fill that grocery store? All of them, and their salary for doing so is irrelevant.

[Chicken Little]

quote:Originally posted by waterboy

All of them...

And calling your colleauges liars and tyrants when they appear to be working on the problem is not helpful.