It's The Economy, STUPID!.....

[FOTD]

"the mortgage bubble inflated as the Fed, other regulators and lawmakers looked the other way, a willful ignorance that was certainly reinforced by the Bush administration's antiregulatory fervor. "
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/16/opinion/16sun2.html?th&emc=th


The rich continue to earn more and more and what do the candidates talk about? Tax cuts.

The lower, middle and upper middle classes do not need tax cuts. These folks - say 90% of the nation - need pay raises.
this is more than disgusting...

Report Says That the Rich Are Getting Richer Faster, Much Faster
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/15/business/15rich.html?_r=1&oref=slogi


Ask those at the top what would they rather have a pay raise or a tax cut.

[cannon_fodder]

When the economic news was good you ignored it and hammered on how crappy things were in Iraq.

Things are better in Iraq and the economic is weaker, so you hammer on the economy.

Doom, doom and gloom!  If your candidate gets in the Whitehouse can we then enjoy the rosy side of the news for a change?

Has anyone else notice that the national media outlets rarely mention Iraq anymore?  Every day 6 months ago it was Iraq this and Iraq that.  No mention of the economy at all.  Suddenly every other news topic is about the economy and I haven't heard a thing about Iraq for a very long time.

Doom and gloom must sell.

[FOTD]

Things are better in Iraq?

If so, it's the Turks who scared hell out of them....

Besides, the real problem lies in Pakistan/Afghanistan.

We will see over time how much better things are now that every American family has been placed $30,000 dollars more in debt.

If we're winning, why hasn't the price of oil reflected the fact?

You can put a smile on this pig but it still stinks.

[cannon_fodder]

Ummm.... yes.  Things are better in Iraq.  Stop acting like a dolt.  By all accounts life is returning to some degree of normality in Baghdad, the Iraqi's have taken over complete control over the southern provinces, violence is down across the entire country, and even Iranian shipments and support has drastically slowed.  What's more, US casualties have been cut in half.

Very clearly, those things count as better.  I doubt the Turks did much to scare the militia in Baghdad into compliance.  By and large the Kurdistan and insurgency are two separate issues.

What's more, the current debt of American families is not effected in any way by the progress in Iraq.  Should every American soldier die today in Iraq, the debt would stand.  Should we leave today, the debt would stand.  That point is totally irrelevant to the fact that things have improved for most people in Iraq.

and to prove that you have NO clue what you are talking about, current oil prices do in fact include the situation in Iraq:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/iraq/article3054300.ece

Iraq is producing 21% more oil now than it did before the invasion (just the increase per day represents four times the amount Oklahoma puts out per day).  In spite of continued attacks by insurgents on the oil infrastructure (oil money would be bring reconstruction, jobs, and aid in stability), it continues to rise.  Thus, the extra 146,000,000 barrels of oil per year has been factored into the global oil market and has had an effect on pricing.

If you need further information on global commodities markets, supply and demand, and increased production I'd be happy to help.  Or, if you want to admit you had no idea that production had sored in Iraq you can go back to your hole.

[FOTD]

Nice job turning the discussion around. Faux news has cut back on Iraq stories from what I have been told. Last I saw any news there was nothing but stories on the mistreatment of our vets by our own government.

If there are positive stories coming out of Washington or OKC or city hall, they get comment sometimes. But mostly if there are continual deceptions generated by those in power, they get priority over the lipsticked pig.

This is what we expect in the next election coming from the liars who produce false truths, abandon our laws, and who had supported an invasion of a Muslim country with huge future impact on our economy and our integrity as a nation

"The few, the powerful, the well-financed, they now control the government," John Edwards told a tight crowd of about 350 last week. "They've taken over your democracy. And it affects everything that happens in this country."

"Everything," he emphasized. Looks like he gets it but too many fail to want to uphold the torch of liberty and justice for all. http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-edwards_bddec16,1,2824166.story?ctrack=1&cset=true

IT IS TIME TO GET THE CROOKS AND LIARS OUT OF WASHINGTON. Sounds as though you want them to stay.

Could you please stick to the subject. Iraq is a sad diversion from an even sadder economic situation for the majority of Americans.

Are you better off than you were 7 years ago?

[FOTD]

Not all doom and gloom....
Here's a very positive story about asking the right questions....

"The contrast between the mayors' priorities and the presidential candidates' rhetoric couldn't be more stark. "In presidential elections, the media and pollsters focus on issues like war, abortion, gay rights, things that, quite frankly, for those of us in the trenches, aren't the hot-button issues," says Miami Mayor Manny Diaz in a taped interview. "People want to know that their kids will get a good education, that their neighborhoods will be safe and clean.... It's difficult for me to understand how presidential candidates don't see that. Those are the issues that affect Americans each and every day. We [mayors] are dealing with them, and [candidates] should also be dealing with them."

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20071231/mayors_video

Define dolt. And while you are at it, define what issues you think our next President should be focusing on instead of sitting there throwing out pitiful defenses for the current neocon nutjobbers screw ups.

[spoonbill]

quote:Originally posted by FOTD

Nice job turning the discussion around. Faux news has cut back on Iraq stories from what I have been told. Last I saw any news there was nothing but stories on the mistreatment of our vets by our own government.

If there are positive stories coming out of Washington or OKC or city hall, they get comment sometimes. But mostly if there are continual deceptions generated by those in power, they get priority over the lipsticked pig.

This is what we expect in the next election coming from the liars who produce false truths, abandon our laws, and who had supported an invasion of a Muslim country with huge future impact on our economy and our integrity as a nation

"The few, the powerful, the well-financed, they now control the government," John Edwards told a tight crowd of about 350 last week. "They've taken over your democracy. And it affects everything that happens in this country."

"Everything," he emphasized. Looks like he gets it but too many fail to want to uphold the torch of liberty and justice for all. http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-edwards_bddec16,1,2824166.story?ctrack=1&cset=true

IT IS TIME TO GET THE CROOKS AND LIARS OUT OF WASHINGTON. Sounds as though you want them to stay.

Could you please stick to the subject. Iraq is a sad diversion from an even sadder economic situation for the majority of Americans.

Are you better off than you were 7 years ago?

Hmmm. . . almost no unemployment. . . productivity at an all time high. . . Stock market booming. . . wages up. . . GNP up. . . liberals pi$$y about everything. . . Yup!  I'm better off.  

Can't complain!

[Conan71]

quote:Originally posted by FOTD



Are you better off than you were 7 years ago?

As a matter-of-fact, yes.

How happy are you going to be when they double taxes on your dividends and capital gains?  Do you just enjoy giving your money away aimlessly to the jack-boot Nazis at the IRS?

[FOTD]

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

quote:Originally posted by FOTD



Are you better off than you were 7 years ago?

As a matter-of-fact, yes.

How happy are you going to be when they double taxes on your dividends and capital gains?  Do you just enjoy giving your money away aimlessly to the jack-boot Nazis at the IRS?

Are you a worker or investor? Certainly, I am better off after rolling out of some assets and capturing a lower rate on capital gains. However, most those I talk to have no such investments as they are service sector workers or common laborers. The only investment they have is home equity which seems to be lowering daily. And I do not feel safer. And I do not think government works near the efficiency they did when I was growing up under higher rates. You get what you pay for.....

[cannon_fodder]

quote:Are you better off than you were 7 years ago?

Yes, I would have to say I am.  Better house, better cars, more savings, and better interest rates.  I may not be happier than I was 7 years ago, but as much as I want to I don't think I can really blame that on Bush.  Not saying I'm less happy, just not more so.  I don't think I'm drinking enough.

and I, like most American's, am both a worker and an investor.  The majority of Americans are either directly or indirectly invested in the markets.  401, pension fund, joint insurance groups... all have market participation.  I believe over 50% of Americans actually own stock now.  If nothing else, the companies many American work for are tied to the capital markets, thus they are effected by the markets and the taxes they must submit to.

Lets do an economic Flashback to just before your hated Bush, controller of all things gone bad, took office:

GDP: $10,800 Billion (up 28%)
Unemployment: 4.76% (currently 4.63% with 1+mil jobs created)
Markets: 10,137 (DJIA), currently above 13,100.
S&P: 1224, currently 1446
Tax Revenue: UP
Tax Rate: Down

So higher markets, lower rates, more jobs, and more tax revenue...  when things were really booming it was a "weak recovery" and now that it has slowed it is certainly doom and gloom.  The indicators now are all way, WAY better than they were a year before Clinton left office, but no one seems to remember that (Dot com, anyone?  Housing bubble already there.  Manufacturing off.  Taxes rising.  Anyone?).

Here's a shocker.  At all points in the history of America you could point to data indicating a rising gap between rich and poor.  The Revolution created land prospects that made huge fortunes (many founders among them).  The industrial revolution certainly would finish off the exploited poor.  Then the post industrial exodus of manufacturing and new service jobs were the end of the little guy.  The poor were left behind true and proper in the dot com boom (not even table scraps!) and surely they'd be on the streets.  

But through it all, the poor kept on trucking.  In fact, at the end of each phase they are better off than they were at the start of the phase.  Funny how history repeats itself and yet some people still can't figure it out.
. . .

and bringing up Iraq was not a change of subject, it was merely pointing out the obvious.  You are only interesting at pointing a finger and shouting "you suck!"  If the poor conditions of the war were Bushes fault, why does he not get credit for getting things back on course?  If the "poor" economy now is Bushes fault, why did he not get credit when things were booming?

I'm not a Bush supporter, but this one way street crap is really, really old.

[spoonbill]

quote:Originally posted by FOTD

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

quote:Originally posted by FOTD



Are you better off than you were 7 years ago?

As a matter-of-fact, yes.

How happy are you going to be when they double taxes on your dividends and capital gains?  Do you just enjoy giving your money away aimlessly to the jack-boot Nazis at the IRS?

Are you a worker or investor? Certainly, I am better off after rolling out of some assets and capturing a lower rate on capital gains. However, most those I talk to have no such investments as they are service sector workers or common laborers. The only investment they have is home equity which seems to be lowering daily. And I do not feel safer. And I do not think government works near the efficiency they did when I was growing up under higher rates. You get what you pay for.....

Why do I allways feel the need to deconstruct your comments?

First of all, the words "government" and "efficiency" should never be in the same sentence.  They are mutually exclusive of each other.  No matter how much money you throw at government you will never receive efficiency as a product. On the contrary, as you increase government funding, you receive a larger government that takes longer to produce the same product (or service).  This has been proven over and over, without exception.

Second, service sector workers or what you term "common laborers," who have NO assets (savings, 401k, IRA) are for the most part, self made disasters.  There are very few corporations that hire "common laborers" that do not offer some form of matching retirement savings plan.  These "common laborers" are also enjoying very high rates of employment and job security right now.

I have 23 "common laborers" working for me.  I do everything short of FORCING them to participate in the IRA that I match 100% up to maximum contribution.  I hold a 2 hour lunch every quarter with our company financial advisor explaining to them how important this investment in their future is.  I AM TRYING TO GIVE THEM MONEY!  

I can tell you that about a third of my employees refuse to take advantage of this, not because they can't afford it, but because they do not think about the future any farther than their next paycheck.  At 30 years old, they can't imagine themselves ever being 70.  They think they're going to hit the lottery or get rich by some wild act of chance.  An extra $10 a paycheck has more importance to them at the Cherokee Casino then in savings.

Third, a house is not a savings account!!!  There is no protection for investment in a home.  Never has been.  Homes suffer depreciation just like a car or a boat.  A smart savings plan does not.

It is not the job of the government to take care of idiots.  

As for safety, liberals never feel safe, that is part of being a liberal.  It's best summed up in the language liberals use as opposed to the language that conservatives use.  Liberals tend to use the term "I feel" when discussing political topics.  Conservatives use the term "I think."   Feelings don't require a mechanism of defense, they are not built on logic.  Thoughts however require explanation and some form of logical mechanism of defense.  It is very hard for some people to say "I think" because it opens them up to strong criticism and ownership of the concept that they are proposing or defending, these people are liberals.  You are not required to prove a feeling, the realm of emotion is a very safe place for these folks because it doesn't require thought.

Now, as for getting what you pay for, NO ONE IS STOPPING YOU FROM PAYING MORE FOR ANYTHING.  If you feel that taxes are too low, the federal government will accept as much extra money as you would like to give.  I heard Bill Clinton complaining the other day because he FEELS like he's not taxed enough.  This is by far the stupidest thing I have ever heard come out of anyones mouth!  Cut a check!  Then tell us about how generous you are.  That's kinda like buying a car and then complaining to the salesman that you don't feel like you are paying enough. Cut a check!  You will FEEL better!

Now I must step down from my soap box and hand out paychecks to my otherwise, disenfranchised, "common laborers" before the end of the day.

[cannon_fodder]

spoonbill... I love you.

[spoonbill]

quote:Originally posted by cannon_fodder

spoonbill... I love you.

See ya at the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy Meeting tonight!

[Ibanez]

quote:Originally posted by FOTD

Are you better off than you were 7 years ago?

Much better...my salary has more than doubled in that time.

[FOTD]

quote:Originally posted by spoonbill

quote:Originally posted by FOTD

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

quote:Originally posted by FOTD



Are you better off than you were 7 years ago?

As a matter-of-fact, yes.

How happy are you going to be when they double taxes on your dividends and capital gains?  Do you just enjoy giving your money away aimlessly to the jack-boot Nazis at the IRS?

Are you a worker or investor? Certainly, I am better off after rolling out of some assets and capturing a lower rate on capital gains. However, most those I talk to have no such investments as they are service sector workers or common laborers. The only investment they have is home equity which seems to be lowering daily. And I do not feel safer. And I do not think government works near the efficiency they did when I was growing up under higher rates. You get what you pay for.....

Why do I allways feel the need to deconstruct your comments?

First of all, the words "government" and "efficiency" should never be in the same sentence.  They are mutually exclusive of each other.  No matter how much money you throw at government you will never receive efficiency as a product. On the contrary, as you increase government funding, you receive a larger government that takes longer to produce the same product (or service).  This has been proven over and over, without exception.

Second, service sector workers or what you term "common laborers," who have NO assets (savings, 401k, IRA) are for the most part, self made disasters.  There are very few corporations that hire "common laborers" that do not offer some form of matching retirement savings plan.  These "common laborers" are also enjoying very high rates of employment and job security right now.

I have 23 "common laborers" working for me.  I do everything short of FORCING them to participate in the IRA that I match 100% up to maximum contribution.  I hold a 2 hour lunch every quarter with our company financial advisor explaining to them how important this investment in their future is.  I AM TRYING TO GIVE THEM MONEY!  

I can tell you that about a third of my employees refuse to take advantage of this, not because they can't afford it, but because they do not think about the future any farther than their next paycheck.  At 30 years old, they can't imagine themselves ever being 70.  They think they're going to hit the lottery or get rich by some wild act of chance.  An extra $10 a paycheck has more importance to them at the Cherokee Casino then in savings.

Third, a house is not a savings account!!!  There is no protection for investment in a home.  Never has been.  Homes suffer depreciation just like a car or a boat.  A smart savings plan does not.

It is not the job of the government to take care of idiots.  

As for safety, liberals never feel safe, that is part of being a liberal.  It's best summed up in the language liberals use as opposed to the language that conservatives use.  Liberals tend to use the term "I feel" when discussing political topics.  Conservatives use the term "I think."   Feelings don't require a mechanism of defense, they are not built on logic.  Thoughts however require explanation and some form of logical mechanism of defense.  It is very hard for some people to say "I think" because it opens them up to strong criticism and ownership of the concept that they are proposing or defending, these people are liberals.  You are not required to prove a feeling, the realm of emotion is a very safe place for these folks because it doesn't require thought.

Now, as for getting what you pay for, NO ONE IS STOPPING YOU FROM PAYING MORE FOR ANYTHING.  If you feel that taxes are too low, the federal government will accept as much extra money as you would like to give.  I heard Bill Clinton complaining the other day because he FEELS like he's not taxed enough.  This is by far the stupidest thing I have ever heard come out of anyones mouth!  Cut a check!  Then tell us about how generous you are.  That's kinda like buying a car and then complaining to the salesman that you don't feel like you are paying enough. Cut a check!  You will FEEL better!

Now I must step down from my soap box and hand out paychecks to my otherwise, disenfranchised, "common laborers" before the end of the day.

Are you in an energy related business?