TulsaNow #15 on Urban Tulsa hot list

[TheArtist]

I like Urban Tulsa, and I like its "edgier" mixed, nature as well. Its not the NY Times, it is what it is. Most of the cities I have ever been to have rags just like it. Its also a great resource for visitors to find out whats playing where and what some of the night spots are. As for readership, its just about every place I go, so I dont know how people can miss it. Kids, I dont know why anyone would have any problem with their kids looking at it? In this day and age, there aint nothing in there they havent seen and heard of a hundred times elsewhere, and if your afraid they will see something in UT you dont want them to, just shows you havent talked with them enough so that they can have a healthy perspective, understanding, and attidude about of all the same stuff they are seeing and hearing other places. In other words you are hiding your head in the sand and being negligent, obviously leaving them to deal with it "however they may" versus how you would responsibly want them to with your guidance.

[waterboy]

quote:Originally posted by TheArtist

I like Urban Tulsa, and I like its "edgier" mixed, nature as well. Its not the NY Times, it is what it is. Most of the cities I have ever been to have rags just like it. Its also a great resource for visitors to find out whats playing where and what some of the night spots are. As for readership, its just about every place I go, so I dont know how people can miss it. Kids, I dont know why anyone would have any problem with their kids looking at it? In this day and age, there aint nothing in there they havent seen and heard of a hundred times elsewhere, and if your afraid they will see something in UT you dont want them to, just shows you havent talked with them enough so that they can have a healthy perspective, understanding, and attidude about of all the same stuff they are seeing and hearing other places. In other words you are hiding your head in the sand and being negligent, obviously leaving them to deal with it "however they may" versus how you would responsibly want them to with your guidance.

You might want to re-read your last post and consider it. I have two adult children and one left at home. Naivete left me back in the eighties. Actually, around their childbirth.

I don't/didn't shield my boys but I damn sure didn't lead them to believe that drinking, whoring, objectifying and "heinie parties" were absolutely necessary for the full enjoyment of the human experience. That is what college is for anyway.[] I made sure copies of Time, Newsweek, Wall Street Journal, Tulsa World and other more enlightening rags were around the house. And yes, in spite of their reluctance I often discussed with them matters of drinking and sex. Though in reality, young boys don't listen much but they do watch closely. I was a late parent so, like Michael, I didn't pay much attention to the music or bar scene during that period and I didn't keep UT around to discuss with them. If you have kids younger than twelve the subject matter, the phone numbers, the eroticism of the weekly is simply not appropriate. Its not that it is lewd or lascivious, its that your children pay attention to what you keep around the house as it must be important to you.

Once again, my critique is that they don't stay true to what their segment is. Their politics is of no interest to me then or now. Other weeklies did a better job of that. Their take on fashion, music, bars etc. is what they have expertise on. When I am curious about those venues I pick one up.

[Conan71]

I'm pretty much with you WB.  I have never really outright hid anything from my girls, there are just somethings I don't keep easy to access.  

I guess you could say I've been a protective parent, not over-protective and I've tried to steer my girls off into constructive interests rather than leaving them to their own devices or influence from friends.  I've been able to compare the way my kids are turning out vs. the children of my more permissive friends and I find I'm having far fewer problems with mine.

I've found even when the feedback from kids is limited to zero in a discussion that they do learn and gain influence from their parents.

[tulsascoot]

I am glad to see others who share my dislike of UT. Bottom line is that the writing is sub par, rarely edited for grammar, and the features are often some hokey excuse for a magazine article. If they would actually get a couple of real writers and stop having so many "special editions" (I mean, really, who the f wants to see an Urban Tulsa "swimsuit issue"?!) and start reporting on things that matter, it might be worth using to line a bird cage.

For now, I just use it to light my charcoal.

[dggriffi]

im with you conan.  as far as im concerned, permissive parenting causes a majority of problem kids with extreme authoritative causing only a minor fraction of the troubled kids.

[Conan71]

Crosswords, Bates, and Ervin are about all I read.  We might grab one for movie listings if we need them on the fly.  I quit reading the movie reviews when I got tired of hearing about the reviewer's personal life.

[joiei]

I looked over their list and was NOT impressed with their choices.  Boring and slanted to their political bent.  Who cares about UTW, they are not relevant to the city.  Just a bunch of crybabies.

[TheArtist]

quote:Originally posted by waterboy

quote:Originally posted by TheArtist

I like Urban Tulsa, and I like its "edgier" mixed, nature as well. Its not the NY Times, it is what it is. Most of the cities I have ever been to have rags just like it. Its also a great resource for visitors to find out whats playing where and what some of the night spots are. As for readership, its just about every place I go, so I dont know how people can miss it. Kids, I dont know why anyone would have any problem with their kids looking at it? In this day and age, there aint nothing in there they havent seen and heard of a hundred times elsewhere, and if your afraid they will see something in UT you dont want them to, just shows you havent talked with them enough so that they can have a healthy perspective, understanding, and attidude about of all the same stuff they are seeing and hearing other places. In other words you are hiding your head in the sand and being negligent, obviously leaving them to deal with it "however they may" versus how you would responsibly want them to with your guidance.

You might want to re-read your last post and consider it. I have two adult children and one left at home. Naivete left me back in the eighties. Actually, around their childbirth.

I don't/didn't shield my boys but I damn sure didn't lead them to believe that drinking, whoring, objectifying and "heinie parties" were absolutely necessary for the full enjoyment of the human experience. That is what college is for anyway.[] I made sure copies of Time, Newsweek, Wall Street Journal, Tulsa World and other more enlightening rags were around the house. And yes, in spite of their reluctance I often discussed with them matters of drinking and sex. Though in reality, young boys don't listen much but they do watch closely. I was a late parent so, like Michael, I didn't pay much attention to the music or bar scene during that period and I didn't keep UT around to discuss with them. If you have kids younger than twelve the subject matter, the phone numbers, the eroticism of the weekly is simply not appropriate. Its not that it is lewd or lascivious, its that your children pay attention to what you keep around the house as it must be important to you.

Once again, my critique is that they don't stay true to what their segment is. Their politics is of no interest to me then or now. Other weeklies did a better job of that. Their take on fashion, music, bars etc. is what they have expertise on. When I am curious about those venues I pick one up.

I suppose every household is different. The take that those things may be perceived to be  "absolutely necessary for the full enjoyment of the human experience." well... I dont think any healthy individual, child or not, would think so. And that is what I am talking about here. Someone who brings their children up in a healthy, happy environment. I dont have kids of my own, but I am very close to my sisters who all have kids. One sister even works for me part time now. When the ice storm hit and 2 of my sisters lost electricity I had them over and their kids. Put the kids to work on a mural lol, nothing like free child slave labor [8D]. One of the girls asked me "Now tell me again why we are doing this uncle Will?" I said " Cause you get to be warm and eat if you do." she said "Oh yea, right, good reason" lol "Back to work ya little grubs!" lol We all had fun. The sister who works for me has 4 boys, two are about 10 and 11, and a teenage girl. She is a great mom. They all make straight A's, with the occasional B. She takes them to soccer practice, cheerleading, etc. They have to do their chores in the morning. She always has great parties, for the kids and us adults. That girl cooks more food than anyone I know and brings way to many cookies and cakes to work lol. She works part time for me and at another job. Commutes from Adair to do them. I dont know where she gets the energy level she has. She really talkes to her kids, they have an organized, structured life, yet full of fun and activities. As for drinking, my sister makes the best drinks lol. The parties and get togethers are mixed crowds, gay and straight. As with anything there are boundries. Drinking and parties dont mean drunkeness and lechery. I have the occasional drink but have never been drunk a day in my life. I am sure she talks to her kids about sex, dating, relationships and what makes a good relationship, just as candidly and naturally as anything else, laying out boundries, whats proper and whats not, and even having a good laugh on occasion. Its something that starts early, cause questions do get asked no matter what the age. And a parent, imo, would do well to answer those questions in a candid, and age appropriate manner and in a way you would answer or talk about anything else. Its not something one suddenly brings up in a private conversation using hushed nervous tone when the kid "comes of age" lol. I guess I am just trying to portray an active, healthy, balanced, fun loving, well structured, family with loads and loads of good communication skills.

I am willing to bet that if any of here kids saw the stuff in the UT magazine, they would either laugh at it and think it silly, and or not give it a second glance. They would probably react to it in a more adult, responsible manner and context than most adults I know. It wouldnt matter if the UT, Time Magazine or the Wal Street Journal, happened to be lying around, the kids have been brought up well enough that it wouldnt matter. Eeeeverything else in the daily environment matters not a few dorky pictures and ads in some little newspaper.  

I remember one client who bought a house that had this large fireplace. On the fireplace were 2 classical stone, female figures holding up the mantle that had their "boobs" showing. She was all about having those statues torn out and removed because she had 2 boys. I wanted to ask why? What were those boys going to do or how would it affect them? What? Was she afraid they were going to run up to the statues drooling and start humping the things? It was absurd. She wanted to be offended and she wanted to bring her kids up in a way were they would react to them,,, well I dont know how they would react. If my sisters kids went in to that house they wouldnt think a thing about them other than perhaps the fireplace looked nice. Heck, I would hate to see that lady take her kids to Europe lol.  No, not the same as those ads in UT magazine, but it is an example of how its the parents choice on how to bring up the kids and how they want their kids to react to things of any sort.

[waterboy]

Artist, we all have a tendency to speak on any topic with authority as we consider each of ourselves worldly, erudite, moral, educated, well adjusted, contributing, etc. It then becomes easy to point at others child rearing and see them as inferior. I am so glad for your sister and her family. There are many ways to raise a family that result in children with the above listed characteristics and all are in my mind acceptable.

My oldest son has a friend that frankly was raised in a situation quite dissimilar. His parents are accomplished in their own fields. He had little responsibility for chores other than grades and a little housework. He graduated top of his law school class and has never been in trouble. Personable, wacky, clever and smart. He was raised in a totally different atmosphere than your sisters kids but seemed to have an inherent sense of personal disciplin. Maybe that came from his family's wealth or genetic intelligence? Contrastingly, we had two friends our age who had the family you describe. He was an exec, she was a school teacher and they lived in a suburban home with lots expected of them. They were devastated when he dropped out of college and became a mechanic. As though that was a failure! All my brothers and sister were raised with the same parents but I am often considered the "strange" one. I am simply wired a little differently.

Nature vs nurture will always be a continuuing discussion when it comes to raising children. Though I believed in nurture as a young college student in psych classes, after much direct experience, I have now begun to realize the preponderence of factors are nature. Like walnut and pine a person may be manipulated with tools and finishes to look the same and accomplish the same tasks, but you won't change its basic nature.

Excuse my pontificating. Or laugh if you like!

No matter how good the connection with your boys, or how disciplined the environment, it is a poor example to leave trashy publications laying around. With that logic, leave Penthouse on the coffee table. They may laugh at them for their content, then later laugh at you for keeping them around.

[TheArtist]

Your saying that UT is a trashy publication akin to Penthouse. I disagree. It is found in many places around town free for anyone to pick up. Restaurants, hotels, the barber shop, etc. It goes without saying that there are plenty of different households and ways to bring up kids and do it well. Your descriptions of the families and people above are apparently examples of just that and say nothing to whether or not it would have been "hazardous" or inappropriate to have left a UT laying around? What poor "example" do you think it would be sending in any of those various good households? Or are you saying that anyone who picks one of those papers up and then leaves it out at their home, well its then a bad household? Those are bad parents setting a bad example? What specifically is the bad example they are setting?

I happened to pick up a UT just today lol. I am looking at it as I type this. I know, a life of debauchery and sin. Lets see in this week we have... Articles about; elections, the hot 100, ( perhaps the word "hot" is a bit lewd?), the rainy day fund, movies, restaurant reviews, sports, going to art galleries, etc.... Then there are the ads;... Here is one for Mathis Brothers, "Official" GMAC Bowl watch party at Full Moon, George Carlin at the PAC "I suppose many people find him offensive", Southern Nazaring University, Express jet, oooh here we go, Urby and the Decadend Chocolate festival, siiiinful indeed. Hey BB King at the PAC now that I would like to see. The 10 tenors, will pass on that. McNellies, Boston pub and grill,Kilkenneys, Oh oh, here we go a scantily clad flirty woman... Unlimited Tanning "At the Beach,Tanning Superstore"! The message this must be sending, we surely need to protect our children from this. Couple movie promos, Legend, Atonement, Juno "the movie with the pregnant teenager" now that could be controversial,,, List of live music acts around town, Some shady looking people playing at the Cains.  Here is something,,, Cloud 9 "Official Chili Bowl Race Stop" hmmm, the girl advertising for the tanning place was more provocative than the girl on this. Perhaps we should not let our children see any ads for tanning salons? Classifieds, Jobs, Astrology another controversial subject. Here we are on the last few pages, News of the Weird and "Live Links" chatline, Tulsa Singles, the girsl on those look very sweet actually lol. Then we are back to Decorative Concrete, Edible Arrangements, Window Tinting and Cherokee Casino Monopoly Big Event!  

Yep having this in ones home is surely a sign of sin and debauchery run amuck.  I have seen more "harmful" stuff in Teen magazines, the Simpsons, heck more skin and controversy in Time Magazine articles and ads. Perhaps its the evil influence of that Bates guy that we should protect our children from? [8D]

BTW, if you find the UT offensive or potentially harmful to children, I dare say you have probably not seen many magazines, advertisements, billboards, television, etc. from or in Europe. Its amazing anyone on that continent manages to grow up unscarred and stable. []

[AVERAGE JOE]

Guess I'm the only one who likes UTW? I always read Bates, Ask a Mexican, and this or that throughout. If nothing else, I read through all the ads to find out what bands are playing at various clubs. Useful.

Maybe you guys are projecting something onto them that they're not even trying to be? Other than a bit of local political coverage and Bates' column,  UTW generally doesn't take itself too seriously, which is just about the right tone to me.

[inteller]

quote:Originally posted by AVERAGE JOE

Guess I'm the only one who likes UTW? I always read Bates, Ask a Mexican, and this or that throughout. If nothing else, I read through all the ads to find out what bands are playing at various clubs. Useful.

Maybe you guys are projecting something onto them that they're not even trying to be? Other than a bit of local political coverage and Bates' column,  UTW generally doesn't take itself too seriously, which is just about the right tone to me.

it is a good rag to find classy whores.

[waterboy]

quote:Originally posted by TheArtist

Your saying that UT is a trashy publication akin to Penthouse. I disagree. It is found in many places around town free for anyone to pick up. Restaurants, hotels, the barber shop, etc. It goes without saying that there are plenty of different households and ways to bring up kids and do it well. Your descriptions of the families and people above are apparently examples of just that and say nothing to whether or not it would have been "hazardous" or inappropriate to have left a UT laying around? What poor "example" do you think it would be sending in any of those various good households? Or are you saying that anyone who picks one of those papers up and then leaves it out at their home, well its then a bad household? Those are bad parents setting a bad example? What specifically is the bad example they are setting?

I happened to pick up a UT just today lol. I am looking at it as I type this. I know, a life of debauchery and sin. Lets see in this week we have... Articles about; elections, the hot 100, ( perhaps the word "hot" is a bit lewd?), the rainy day fund, movies, restaurant reviews, sports, going to art galleries, etc.... Then there are the ads;... Here is one for Mathis Brothers, "Official" GMAC Bowl watch party at Full Moon, George Carlin at the PAC "I suppose many people find him offensive", Southern Nazaring University, Express jet, oooh here we go, Urby and the Decadend Chocolate festival, siiiinful indeed. Hey BB King at the PAC now that I would like to see. The 10 tenors, will pass on that. McNellies, Boston pub and grill,Kilkenneys, Oh oh, here we go a scantily clad flirty woman... Unlimited Tanning "At the Beach,Tanning Superstore"! The message this must be sending, we surely need to protect our children from this. Couple movie promos, Legend, Atonement, Juno "the movie with the pregnant teenager" now that could be controversial,,, List of live music acts around town, Some shady looking people playing at the Cains.  Here is something,,, Cloud 9 "Official Chili Bowl Race Stop" hmmm, the girl advertising for the tanning place was more provocative than the girl on this. Perhaps we should not let our children see any ads for tanning salons? Classifieds, Jobs, Astrology another controversial subject. Here we are on the last few pages, News of the Weird and "Live Links" chatline, Tulsa Singles, the girsl on those look very sweet actually lol. Then we are back to Decorative Concrete, Edible Arrangements, Window Tinting and Cherokee Casino Monopoly Big Event!  

Yep having this in ones home is surely a sign of sin and debauchery run amuck.  I have seen more "harmful" stuff in Teen magazines, the Simpsons, heck more skin and controversy in Time Magazine articles and ads. Perhaps its the evil influence of that Bates guy that we should protect our children from? [8D]

BTW, if you find the UT offensive or potentially harmful to children, I dare say you have probably not seen many magazines, advertisements, billboards, television, etc. from or in Europe. Its amazing anyone on that continent manages to grow up unscarred and stable. []

That's ridiculous. I got through your first paragraph and realized you either know someone there, do work for them or are related. You misread my posts then made fantasy comparisons. I never said it was akin to Penthouse. The logic of your remarks will take you there. If the conversation were worthwhile or I thought you were serious I would cherry pick articles, ads, classifieds, pics and such from past issues to show you just how low class they have been. If they have cleaned it up since I read it last week, then kudos to them. But as a rule, they take ads that credible publications will not. Still I don't begrudge them their place at the table.

But you continue to ignore my only criticism. I don't care that they make their living from the entertainment segment of the market. And as far as readership, well, you are what you read and if you think that its worthy of your coffee table, then fine by me but don't try to convince me it has any merit other than music, movies, bars and restaurants. My irritation is that they don't stay in that segment. They try to cover political issues, and topics outside of that segment. Bates and Simonson are their most common feature writers. One a former republican party chairman and the other a noted right wing conservative.  They always say they will print any well written viewpoints from both sides of the aisle, they just never seem to find any other viewpoints. That's curious because they are out there. Why do they do this? Because there is simply not as much profit in covering the tiny, getting tinier, entertainment segment in Tulsa. They want to make the step to a real newspaper with real titan advertisers that pay big bucks to reach quantifiable multi segment readership. There is simply little reason in my mind for them to try to parade themselves as journalism now when they are a poorly circulated, clubbish little party weekly. AT LEAST TULSA PEOPLE KNOWS WHO THEY ARE! They are a poorly circulated, clubbish little society magazine that covers the local tea sippers, and the oilies. They don't make my coffee table either. I bet you love them. Good source of business. I do wish someone would publish a credible well balanced tabloid of commentary and local news in Tulsa. It was done in the past but usually they die when the publisher is burned out or finds a good job. Oh well.

Take my posts and classify them as just one more illiterate, unsophisticated Tulsan you have to put up with. I spent years in local advertising, William, while you were becoming enlightened. I was in the business when the newspaper ran Scryp off. I was around when he couldn't get along with the Tulsa People owner and he started his own rag. I competed with his sales staff. Conan did a fine job managing that staff. We didn't give it much chance though, because it was among the worst that was offered. But he was a better businessman than a writer/publisher and the others passed on. He was the first to take hard alcohol ads, the first to take casino gambling ads and the only one to take sexually oriented ads relating to phone sex, group sex and featuring pics of strippers. All while its columns railed against immoral liberals and abortion. A real innovator he was. Now he has that market but he wants respect. Sorry, can't do that.

Also, I actually have my own children, coached them and others in sports, taught in Sunday school, participated in school activities and did my best to be a role model for those kids whose parents were less than adequate. You spent your life becoming a single 40yr old dilettante. Don't lecture me about what's appropriate for kids and what they should be exposed to. Just don't. But then I've never been to Europe so you're probably more enlightened and less puritanical than I...

If I were to listen to you, its a classy rag that's enjoyed by cosmopolites and rabble alike. Its 15,000 copies (what does he say 30?) are available everywhere, passed around many times, and not as bad as the weeklies in LA. Cool. Also, I hear you can find pretty good whores and swingers clubs among its literary excellence.

[TheArtist]

"You are what you read?"  Well I must read a loooot more than you. If you think because someone picks up a UT and reads it,checks out whats going on around town in the music/entertainment scene, and perhaps reads some of the articles in it,,, they are then defined by that?  Well you must not read very much to think such a small amount of reading would have so much "definition".

Every single day I read Science Daily http://www.sciencedaily.com/  The best resource for whats happening in the world of science.

Read the BBC News every morning. http://news.bbc.co.uk/  Love getting the broad perspective and amount of news they have on world events.

Read the TW online every morning as well to get my local fix.

Have had a subscription to Readers Digest most of my life. I have a literal LIBRARY of art books. By my bedside is of course are my Bibles King James and NIV version. And one of the top 10 books I have ever read "Crossing the Threshold of Hope" by John Paul II. Highly reccomend it. Best book I read last year... Galileos Daughter by Dava Sorbel, wonderful wonderful book. Is based on the actual correspondance Galileos daughter kept. You WILL cry at the end of the book. Am currently reading "The Reformation, a history" not sure I am buying the slant it is taking but will go ahead and finish it. Then the next 2 books in my pile are,The Gormenghast Novels. Saw the British television series so had to read the books. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/gormenghast/film/synopsis.html  http://www.bbc.co.uk/drama/gormenghast/
One of many treats to be found when broadening ones horizons across the pond. Next book after that is "Enders Game". a classic sci-fi novel I have yet to read. There is much, much, more that I read and watch. I try to purposefully challenge myself, reach out and read something I wouldn't normally consider. There is so much out there to be discovered.

To be defined by something so minor as UT is rather nitpicky. I feel your angry and want to lash out and be hurtful. If you dont like it, fine, dont limit and judge others on such a small point. Every city has a rag just like UT. They are what they are, they are not trying to be what they are not, and thus YOUR insistant definition of what it SHOULD be is immaterial and silly.

SO THERE! Take that! lol []

[RecycleMichael]

People who read books think they are so smart.

I only read newspapers, magazines, webpages and fortune cookies.