TulsaNow #15 on Urban Tulsa hot list

[sgrizzle]

I read the internet.

PM me if you want to know how it ends.

[we vs us]

quote:Originally posted by sgrizzle

I read the internet.

PM me if you want to know how it ends.

If you PM sgrizzle, turn to page 53.

If you blockquote Waterboy and continue arguing, turn to page 74

If you walk outside and enjoy the freakish 70 degree January weather, turn to page 842

[waterboy]

You're insufferable! And yet it must be so cool to be you. After reading your responses to my posts I would guess your problem is not reading, its comprehending! You stretch my posts out so as to be silly and use anecdotes to make your points but dismiss mine as simplistic. By studiously avoiding the more cogent points and seizing on making me out to be a prudish nit, you waste both our efforts.

Geez. What is it that makes people who are successful in one venue think they are or could be experts in all areas? God, protect us all from these modern age Renaissance men. I would never question your experience or taste in matters of art even though I have some knowledge and appreciation of things creative. Never having been paid to create I would feel out of my league. But you don't mind questioning my moral viewpoints, my reading skills, my ability to see billboards, EVEN my parenting skills even though you have devoted your career to the finer arts.

To be defined by something so minor as UT is rather nitpicky. I feel your angry and want to lash out and be hurtful. If you dont like it, fine, dont limit and judge others on such a small point. Every city has a rag just like UT. They are what they are, they are not trying to be what they are not, and thus YOUR insistant definition of what it SHOULD be is immaterial and silly.

And such a namecaller. The AA approach. All I can do is be "nitpicky", "angry", "hurtful", "judgemental", "immaterial" and "silly". That Readers Digest Word Power is really paying off for you huh? []But why? You probably took some Psych too, so what is my motivation? I have no axe to grind, no bad blood with the publisher and no competing interest. Just don't like it.

This started with an effort to list their Hot 100, as though any rag that has so little integrity in its Urby awards would have any business doing so. Then they smartly leave out the richest, most influential publishers in town. Gee, I wonder if there are "cold" advertisers who made the list, and "hot" non advertisers who didn't. Bet on it. Like their other efforts at lists this one attempts to show how hip, connected, clever and urban they are. Its a list of friends, potential friends, advertisers, musicians and artists, well knowns and politicos. And a few humanitarians for good measure. Ooooh. Ain't we cool?

Some people feel they are "edgy". UT is trashy. OK Gazette is tons better. City Pages in the twin cities is a role model. Hell, even the Spot is better. You like it, I don't. So what.

[PonderInc]

I always grab an Urban Tulsa when I'm eating lunch.  Guess this makes me an eater-reader.  (I'll read the box of Cheerios at breakfast, if nothing else is available.)  I actually like the paper, even when I don't agree with some of the stances of the columnists.  I also appreciate that they highlight issues that slip through the cracks of the TW. It's also an easy way to stay current on where to find live music and concerts.  I love being able to see at a glance every act that's coming to Cains or the Brady, or even the Ford Center in OKC.  And the Advice Goddess (or whatever her name is) never fails to make me chuckle.  So, I guess it's sort of like this forum.  I skim through the crappola, and read the items that are of interest to me.  

[TheArtist]

quote:Originally posted by waterboy

You're insufferable! And yet it must be so cool to be you. After reading your responses to my posts I would guess your problem is not reading, its comprehending! You stretch my posts out so as to be silly and use anecdotes to make your points but dismiss mine as simplistic. By studiously avoiding the more cogent points and seizing on making me out to be a prudish nit, you waste both our efforts.

Geez. What is it that makes people who are successful in one venue think they are or could be experts in all areas? God, protect us all from these modern age Renaissance men. I would never question your experience or taste in matters of art even though I have some knowledge and appreciation of things creative. Never having been paid to create I would feel out of my league. But you don't mind questioning my moral viewpoints, my reading skills, my ability to see billboards, EVEN my parenting skills even though you have devoted your career to the finer arts.

To be defined by something so minor as UT is rather nitpicky. I feel your angry and want to lash out and be hurtful. If you dont like it, fine, dont limit and judge others on such a small point. Every city has a rag just like UT. They are what they are, they are not trying to be what they are not, and thus YOUR insistant definition of what it SHOULD be is immaterial and silly.

And such a namecaller. The AA approach. All I can do is be "nitpicky", "angry", "hurtful", "judgemental", "immaterial" and "silly". That Readers Digest Word Power is really paying off for you huh? []But why? You probably took some Psych too, so what is my motivation? I have no axe to grind, no bad blood with the publisher and no competing interest. Just don't like it.

This started with an effort to list their Hot 100, as though any rag that has so little integrity in its Urby awards would have any business doing so. Then they smartly leave out the richest, most influential publishers in town. Gee, I wonder if there are "cold" advertisers who made the list, and "hot" non advertisers who didn't. Bet on it. Like their other efforts at lists this one attempts to show how hip, connected, clever and urban they are. Its a list of friends, potential friends, advertisers, musicians and artists, well knowns and politicos. And a few humanitarians for good measure. Ooooh. Ain't we cool?

Some people feel they are "edgy". UT is trashy. OK Gazette is tons better. City Pages in the twin cities is a role model. Hell, even the Spot is better. You like it, I don't. So what.

Speaking of comprehending... I don't recall ever dimsissing your points as simplistic. Nor have I ever professed to be an expert in anything, let alone "all areas" during this conversation. So I don't understand where you are getting any of that from what I have said.

And what could possibly be wrong with questioning someones moral viewpoint or anything for that matter? Its wrong to question and challenge?

"Studiously avoiding the more cogent points?" Trust me I was not trying to studiously avoid anything. Is this a point you were talking about?...

Their lack of integrity enrages me. Featuring cerebral essays and moralist columnists in the front pages and immorality from thereon kills their credibility. Its a bacchanalian youth publication." and...

 "Once again, my critique is that they don't stay true to what their segment is."

I thought most of my posts answered just that. If I or people I know pick up a UT and read it, I would say part of their segment would be people who both enjoy reading cerebral essays and moralist columns AND like finding out what band is playing where, what restaurants or new club is open, News of the Weird lol, etc.

You said..."I don't care that they make their living from the entertainment segment of the market. And as far as readership, well, you are what you read and if you think that its worthy of your coffee table, then fine by me but don't try to convince me it has any merit other than music, movies, bars and restaurants. My irritation is that they don't stay in that segment. They try to cover political issues, and topics outside of that segment."

I DO enjoy reading the articles in it. I DO enjoy reading a huge variety of things from one end of the spectrum to the next, as I have tried to show you. I find all sorts of things interesting.

On the one hand you say "dont try to convince me it has any merit other than music, movies, bars and restaurants." What gives you the right to make an assertion like that and not allow others to make a different assertion? "My irritation is that they don't stay in that segment. They try to cover political issues, and topics outside of that segment" We who read that are supposed to just roll over and go along with it? You have the right to try and convince us of your point but we dont have the right to convince you of ours?

When you condemn the UT so harshly and say things like, "You are what you read." How can we not make the connection that you are insulting the readers? For instance, me, my family and friends. I feel like I have been insulted and called names. You say that this is a trashy publication and I give examples of people who would read it to try and show that it doesn't make you a bad person unable to raise kids etc. if you do read it.

You say..."You are what you read"  and you  point out that...UT "which I do occasionally read" is trashy, a clubby little party weekly, something you would not want around your home, etc. etc. How do you think I would take that?

"That's ridiculous. I got through your first paragraph and realized you either know someone there, do work for them or are related. You misread my posts then made fantasy comparisons. I never said it was akin to Penthouse."

I do not know anyone there, that I know of lol. Nor have I knowingly done any work for anyone who works there. Nor am I related to anyone who works there.

"Fantasy comparison?" I dont know how else to take this..."No matter how good the connection with your boys, or how disciplined the environment, it is a poor example to leave trashy publications laying around. With that logic, leave Penthouse on the coffee table."
Sounds like you are saying UT is a trashy publicaton, Penthouse is a trashy publication, thus Penthouse and UT are "akin". I don't know how else it could be read?

I try to explain how I and others see the UT and you insist that perspective is wrong,,, well thats fine, we can disagree. Your saying its what you believe it to be doesn't make it so. But when you also strongly imply that whoever has one of these on their coffee table or reads one is wrong to do so, is trashy, etc. Well your going to have to expect a little push back.


I said..."To be defined by something so minor as UT is rather nitpicky. I feel your angry and want to lash out and be hurtful. If you dont like it, fine, dont limit and judge others on such a small point. Every city has a rag just like UT. They are what they are, they are not trying to be what they are not, and thus YOUR insistant definition of what it SHOULD be is immaterial and silly.


Then you said....
And such a namecaller. The AA approach. All I can do is be "nitpicky", "angry", "hurtful", "judgemental", "immaterial" and "silly".

I do not see how that was "namecalling". I did not ever call you by any of those names. Saying you were "being" nitpicky is not the same as YOU ARE nitpicky. For you were being that way, you chose to look at one small thing, the UT, I read and suggest that that alone defined me. I tried to show that I read a lot of different things so how can that one small thing define me?

To say that your feeling that someone is angry and being hurtful is saying how I felt by your language and behavior. It wasnt calling you a name.

Judgmental? Sure, who isnt?

Immaterial and silly. I did not say YOU were immaterial and silly. I said "your insistant definition of what it should be" is. So unless you are the "definition of what it should be"... your not what I was saying was immaterial and silly. Speaking of "comprehending".

Should I go back and list the names you DID call me? "insufferable" "dilettante"...[]

[waterboy]

We? No one else is responding to this loser topic anymore. I'm certainly bored with it. Relax. Go call one of those massage numbers in the back of UT.

[TheArtist]

quote:Originally posted by waterboy

We? No one else is responding to this loser topic anymore. I'm certainly bored with it. Relax. Go call one of those massage numbers in the back of UT.

I already know a good massage therapist and chiropractor. But thanks for your "expert opinion". You seem to be far more familiar and fixated with those few ads in the back of UT than most. Before this conversation I had never even paid attention to them and frankly I am not going to start. But perhaps you have a favorite you would like to recommend to others?

[waterboy]

quote:Originally posted by TheArtist

quote:Originally posted by waterboy

We? No one else is responding to this loser topic anymore. I'm certainly bored with it. Relax. Go call one of those massage numbers in the back of UT.

I already know a good massage therapist and chiropractor. But thanks for your "expert opinion". You seem to be far more familiar and fixated with those few ads in the back of UT than most. Before this conversation I had never even paid attention to them and frankly I am not going to start. But perhaps you have a favorite you would like to recommend to others?

I offered no opinion. Work on that reading comprehension. However, I will offer this advice if you need a recommendation on services from those pages. Check with the police. They have in the past used those ads to arrest businesses involved with illegal activities. So sensitive! Are all artists that way?

[TheArtist]

My comment on your "opinion" was a direct reflection on your earlier comment of my "expert opinion". Your absolutely right, you offered no "opinion" and I hadn't offered any "expert opinion". Apparently you missed that comparison. And I even put it in quotes to alert you. So "Work on that comprehension."  And yes us artists are sensitive lol. Its our job. [8D]

[waterboy]

quote:Originally posted by TheArtist

My comment on your "opinion" was a direct reflection on your earlier comment of my "expert opinion". Your absolutely right, you offered no "opinion" and I hadn't offered any "expert opinion". Apparently you missed that comparison. And I even put it in quotes to alert you. So "Work on that comprehension."  And yes us artists are sensitive lol. Its our job. [8D]

I saw your attempt at comparison. It just didn't make much sense. This has been fun but has run its course. I mean you no enmity. Your strengths are in art and development not wordplay (but that's just my opinion.) You have that vision thing. You were one of the two brightest people in the room during the county commissioner meeting when you correctly tried to steer them towards a river corridor zoning effort.

I have to admit I was playing a little bit here, though I thought you might benefit from my experience and insights gleaned from 15years in that industry. That was my inflated ego. I actually talked to the guys running the presses for many of the weeklies/monthlies that sprung up in the eighties to determine their real press runs. The honest ones faded away.

Have you ever seen the City Pages from Minneapolis? We need to continue pressure on the most influential players in Tulsa, like UT, to do a better job and stop taking us all for granted.

[TheArtist]

Oh come on, your giving up too quickly. We could easily keep ranting at each other for at least a few more weeks. [] I am sure everyone has been hanging on our every word with baited breath. Either that or we have both been permanently blocked by everyone on this forum at this point. lol

And no I havent seen the City Pages from Minneapolis. Will have to check it out.