NPR on HB1804

[cannon_fodder]

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=17790119

quote:All Things Considered, January 2, 2008 · Oklahoma's local law against illegal immigration is among the toughest in the nation. The law went into effect Nov. 1, and advocates for undocumented workers and activists for tougher immigration measures both say that since then, thousands of immigrants have left Oklahoma.

Among other things, the new law makes it a felony to harbor, transport or aid an illegal immigrant. Hispanic leaders say the law is causing widespread fear in the Hispanic community. Builders say they can't get enough workers and are threatening a lawsuit to try to block the law.

But backers of the measure say it's doing what the federal government has failed to do: address the problem of people working in the U.S. illegally.

The link above has the full radio broadcast, with interviews and commentary on Tulsa from builders, immigrants, and the police chief.  It really seemed to focus on Tulsa. Presumably because an NPR reporter could be lynched anywhere else in the state.  
[]  7.25 minute audio clip.

Explains that Tulsa's registered Hispanic population increased from 7% in 2000 to 11% in 2006 - probably more with illegals.  That we have a worker shortage.  And that the bill has caused illegals and legal residence of Hispanic heritage to feel unwelcome.

It also gets the police chief's perspective:  that they are only using it as a tool to deport people who have broken other laws.  They are not hunting down Hispanics nor question citizenship on routine traffic stops.  But if you are in his jail and illegal, they have a new tool.

It seemed well rounded overall.  It gave sympathy to those who desire Hispanic labor and the immigrant themselves, but ended with the police perspective that it is not a man hunt.

and you thought I was some right winger who only listened to El Rushbo.
[]

[Hometown]

We know of several friends of friends who were deported after being stopped (purportedly) for minor traffic infractions.

"We are only deporting serious criminals" is the ticket and not true.

[cannon_fodder]

I guess I have no way of knowing if that is true or not...

I suppose the underlying crime would be driving without a license or insurance.  Normally they impound your car and issue you a summons to appear in court.  So I guess that triggers the "other crime" clause as opposed to just being here illegally.

Again, I really don't know but that is the only thing that makes sense to me.  Actively perusing random persons or proof if citizenship is over the edge.  I'd be interesting in hearing more about how it is really being enforced as illegal immigrants that break the law in additional ways get little sympathy for me (I am understanding of the catch 22 on drivers licenses, I refer to more 'serious' crimes for the sake of argument).

Please listen to the article to make sure I am not misconstruing it.  I was listening and driving and then regurgitated it today so it may be off.

[we vs us]

I'm glad you posted this.  I moved here after the bill took effect, so have missed most of the debate about it.  I heard this on the radio yesterday and my ears perked right up. I'm glad NPR did a "fair and balanced" take on it; for my money, they usually do, and it seemed like the reporter did an admirable job of trying to get all voices heard from.  

They focused on the construction industry, but I'll bet you before the bill finally gets repealed, every corner of OKs economy will feel the pinch.

[Conan71]

quote:Originally posted by we vs us

I'm glad you posted this.  I moved here after the bill took effect, so have missed most of the debate about it.  I heard this on the radio yesterday and my ears perked right up. I'm glad NPR did a "fair and balanced" take on it; for my money, they usually do, and it seemed like the reporter did an admirable job of trying to get all voices heard from.  

They focused on the construction industry, but I'll bet you before the bill finally gets repealed, every corner of OKs economy will feel the pinch.

Believe me, it is, but it's not the major cataclysm it was predicted to be prior to Nov. 1.  Oklahoma will adjust and rebound.

I think this may have been the start of something much bigger to come in a workable national immigration reform.  Other states are looking closely at what happened here and modeling laws after ours.  When half the states have enacted such laws and there is a glut of unemployed illegal aliens sucking social services dry out of amnesty states, the feds will finally do something about it.

Whatever happens on a national basis will wind up looking a lot like the amnesty bill of '86 out of necessity and people are just going to have to get used to that idea.  

Until Congress finally funds the border security measures they passed a year or so back, it doesn't make one bit of difference what we do to the legal status of those who are already here and those who will be here tomorrow.

[TeeDub]

quote:Originally posted by Hometown

We know of several friends of friends who were deported after being stopped (purportedly) for minor traffic infractions.

"We are only deporting serious criminals" is the ticket and not true.

Minor traffic infractions are as good a reason as any.   There is no such thing as a "little bit" illegal.   It is more of a black and white issue.   Oh, by the way, did your "friends of friends" have a drivers license?

[we vs us]

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

quote:Originally posted by we vs us


They focused on the construction industry, but I'll bet you before the bill finally gets repealed, every corner of OKs economy will feel the pinch.

Believe me, it is, but it's not the major cataclysm it was predicted to be prior to Nov. 1.  Oklahoma will adjust and rebound.

Oh, give it some time.  This has only been in effect for a month or so, right?  Not nearly enough time to really feel the effects.  Let's look at it after a year's gone by and we'll see then what the fallout is.

Bottom line, prices on lots of things will skyrocket.  Illegals have been distorting pricing in the US for a long long time.  They've been subsidizing our "low low prices" lifestyle, and without them taking the pay cut to cut the lawns and build the houses and gut the chickens and clean your bathrooms, we'll have to start actually paying Americans to do those jobs.

[FOTD]

Yesterday, the Oklahoma Sooners were the best ad for our state....today, it's the way we handle immigrunts.

Tomorrow, it will be how our state seems to be holding its own while the rest the country slips into recess or worse.

[Chicken Little]

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

Believe me, it is, but it's not the major cataclysm it was predicted to be prior to Nov. 1.  Oklahoma will adjust and rebound.

--"How's that?", asked Chicken Little in a tone as dry as the Mojave Desert.--

These folks are being chased, literally, to surrounding states.  So, houses in Fayetteville will get built faster and cheaper.  What's your plan to make sure that Tulsa keeps pace with our competitor to the east?  

"Adjusting" and "rebounding" are not the same thing.  We can adjust to a lot of things:  nosy government; scared citizens; racism; tragic deaths; population losses; and a sagging economy.  That's not exactly a rebound though, is it?  So, tell me what I'm missing.  What's the plan?  How is Tulsa going to rebound?

[Wrinkle]

quote: What's your plan to make sure that Tulsa keeps pace with our competitor to the east?  

Let's see....stop renewing dental & cosmetic surgical licenses, forcing them to revert to body piercing and tatooing.

[Conan71]

quote:Originally posted by Chicken Little

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

Believe me, it is, but it's not the major cataclysm it was predicted to be prior to Nov. 1.  Oklahoma will adjust and rebound.

--"How's that?", asked Chicken Little in a tone as dry as the Mojave Desert.--

These folks are being chased, literally, to surrounding states.  So, houses in Fayetteville will get built faster and cheaper.  What's your plan to make sure that Tulsa keeps pace with our competitor to the east?  

"Adjusting" and "rebounding" are not the same thing.  We can adjust to a lot of things:  nosy government; scared citizens; racism; tragic deaths; population losses; and a sagging economy.  That's not exactly a rebound though, is it?  So, tell me what I'm missing.  What's the plan?  How is Tulsa going to rebound?

Drop the hyperbole CL, you're frightening the little kids.  I'm picturing OHP cars with sharp teeth on the grills nipping at the heels of illegal immigrants as they dive across the border into Arkansas.

And to answer Wevus- even with HB 1804 we get cheap chicken from Arkansas and SW Mo., cheap pork and beef products from Texas, Kansas, Nebraska, Iowa & Missouri, we still get our cheap produce from Florida, Texas, and California.  Only things agriculturaly which are changing is others might pay more for our export wheat, cotton, peanuts & soybeans.

I don't think anyone's having to pay more for our #1 cash crop these days, that's usually white trash hill-jacks who grow that anyhow.

What a lot of you have not seen is there are a lot of Hispanics staying behind, laying low, and working in relative security away from the public eye inside plants all around the area.  

People assume since you aren't seeing as many Hispanics around construction sites or loitering around QT that they've all left.  They have not.  That's a fact.

[dggriffi]

no kidding.  so less workers is better?  
Yeah, everyone that lives pays property tax which pays for almost everything.  So even he illegals where paying taxes.

[cannon_fodder]

quote:Originally posted by dggriffi

So even he illegals where paying taxes.

I think I agree... if you meant something like "So even [t]he illegals [were] paying taxes."

[dggriffi]

yeah,   thanks for correcting.    The only thing they didn't pay was federal and state income taxes,  which, at their income level,  may be nothing.  Sales and property taxes pay for most of everything around here anyway.

[we vs us]

quote:Originally posted by dggriffi

yeah,   thanks for correcting.    The only thing they didn't pay was federal and state income taxes,  which, at their income level,  may be nothing.  Sales and property taxes pay for most of everything around here anyway.

And in actuality, lots are paying into social security -- via their fake soc sec #s -- as well.  And because they're not going to be able to draw on it when they're older, well that's a net gain into the soc sec system.

The main reason that illegals are a drain on the system is because they're poor, not because they're illegal, since the poor as a whole draw more assistance from the system than they contribute.