BOK Center... Almost here.....

[TheArtist]

quote:Originally posted by Rico

quote:Originally posted by TheArtist

Yes there was a flurry of activity and hope when the arena was started and vision 2025 passed.

But then the reality of how long it takes to do things took hold. The Mayo Hotel and Mayo Buildings will add a good amount of living... but will take a lot of time. First Street Lofts, Matthews lofts and art museum... will take a lot of time. East End deal fell through for now and even when something real gets announced, I am betting this year.... it will still take years to get going. Brady theater remodel fell though for its own reasons. etc. etc.

We are just going to have to realize that we arent going to have the downtown we want as soon as we would like. My bet is that is we will be where OKC is now, in 2012 or 2013. And of course they are going to grow more this year, and so on.  

Even the River District that just got approved for development will take about a year just to do the "dirt work". About a year to prep the site, grading, water lines, sewer, electrical, roads, lake, etc.  before any construction actually starts. Once it gets going though it will really move.

I think the Mayor is taking solid steps with the planning and working hard to make things happen. But even just that process and starting things takes a looot of work. But once that foundation is laid out you will begin to see movement of the kind we have been wanting. Even the arena, the streets, sidewalks,new park, consolidation of city hall that will eventually free up some property, etc are basically "priming the canvas". Getting some of the living and other things I mentioned done or underway will only help the momentum once things really start going in about 4 or 5 years.

Yea 4 or 5 years sounds like an eternity when you want it now lol. But it seems to me to be an honest time scale. Just hang in there.  

If I am reading you accurately, a reasonable expectation for a Hotel, to house the hoards of people coming to conventions and concerts would be roughly "4 to 5 years" after it opens....

What I would like to know is where are the bankable investments..?

You know.... The companies that pay people to find them an investment with a certain degree of promised return on their money.?

I think we all can see the effect of the "tax dollars" from V2025...

Everyone is aware that the City condemned the Towerview, has City Hall for sale, etc.

You say the " consolidation of city hall that will eventually free up some property"..
The problem I have with that is: The Arena was to have brought forward a surge of investment. We, as a City, are banking on increased Tax Revenue to make this whole thing fly.
Hell.... we have no suitors that I am aware of for Towerview.

Where is it at? Where is the economic momentum that all this tax money was to have created?

I doubt Tulsa can hold it's breath for 4 to 5 years if somethings do not begin to pop..

At this point I honestly dont think the arena itself can bring a new hotel near it. Nobody in their right mind is going to buy the old city hall building anytime soon and put a hotel in there. The whole plaza would have to be ripped up and the buildings around it remodeled. The towerview site is still the better site if your going to build near the arena imo. (I still think it was a good idea to move though) My 4-5 year scenario is more contingent on a Baseball stadium going in on the East End, possibly where the Hartford building now is. That coupled with some development around it, including a small hotel, the Mayo Hotel lofts/hotel, Matthews building etc. PLUS the Arena will then begin to create enough life and interest to create a bustling downtown environment that will begin to grow on its own without "government intervention". Any "baseball stadium plus" deal that is announced will take several years to start and build then a few years to see other developments start during and after that. So, optimistically 4-5 years IF we get a baseball stadium and something around it.  

If no other large East End type development goes in and or no Baseball Stadium, then even the 4-5 year consideration could turn into a 10-15 year slog to get our downtown on the move. For then we would be forced to rely on small steps, each one taking years to start and get going. And thats if we really keep pushing and working at it.

I remember people criticizing me for being all gung ho about the "Heavenly Hospitality" deal. Though I doubt they were for real even if we went with their demands. People were saying we shouldnt go with the "first person who asked us to the dance". I was like "Tulsa is the fat girl with stringy hair, missing a tooth and standing in the corner. If someone halfway decent asks her to dance, she needs to be thrilled and go dance lol. Everyone was like "Dont worry about it we will get lots of offers". I was just baffled by that. We are not. The suburbs will get more offers. And look what has happened.

There was a window of opportunity when there was a lot of buzz going on with downtown. Now that the Kanbar thing and the East End thing"s" have flopped. The arena by itself cant carry the day. We need something else or its going to take a long slow haul where even 10-15 years could be optimistic.

[USRufnex]

quote:Originally posted by Rico

quote:Originally posted by USRufnex

Evidently, it's too much to ask for people to wait until the arena is built and fully functional for a few months/years before judging its success or failure... [B)]

If we lived in a City that could afford such a luxury that might be the way to go.

The city voted on it... your side lost.  The people of this city decided they COULD afford it.  Not unlike folks from Oklahoma City decided they could afford MAPS...  

In 1997, former Mayor Savage offered the taxpayers of Tulsa a downtown-only hodge-podge of half baked projects in addition to an arena, including a 5K capacity soccer/track&field stadium and "natatorium"-- then tried in vain a couple of years later on another citywide vote for a downtown-only arena sequel which was again defeated by the voters... former Mayor LaFortune offered the citizens of Tulsa County a chance to vote for an entire series of projects/incentives with the arena as a centerpiece... it passed with a 60% majority.

Mayor Taylor told us she wanted "a river with water in it" and succumbed to the wishes of George Kaiser, so the citizens of Tulsa County were offered a river-only tax... a tax that could have narrowly passed if the mayor had simply pushed for a citywide vote... now Taylor's going to offer a road-only tax... some people never learn...

That said, it's as if all the same people who were against Vision2025 are still trying to re-defeat it.

Sure, I can disagree about the city of Tulsa deciding to do an arena to be just like all the other cities... Little Rock, OKC, Omaha, Louisville, KC... Wichita will be next in building an indoor downtown arena... I personally, of course, would have rather had a stadium that would have cost half the price... that would have had a major tenant in MLS... and would have rather had Dave Matthews open the $70mil outdoor stadium (which opponents including Recyclemichael and TW's Dave Sittler would constently tell us is "soccer only") than watch as Celine Dion opens the indoor arena built for well over double the price...

There is a tax that is paying for this arena.
The people of this city voted FOR it.

It IS being built.

There ARE people of good will who were desperate to vote FOR something like Vision2025 including this iconic 18K indoor arena, even if it wasn't perfect-- even if the benefits were in doubt.  I think if LaFortune, a reasonable and smart person who you, Rico, have savaged over and over and over again for years on this site, had been re-elected mayor, we would actually have other projects lined up...

As opposed to a mayor who, until she proves otherwise, is all about appearances and window-dressing.  Whether the issue is downtown development, the river, police on bicycles, crime in general, the few hundred people who lost their jobs at Vanguard... etc, etc...

/end rant

[sgrizzle]

BOK Center 2 weeks behind:

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=20080109_238_A1_hCoun88381

The gist is that lots of people didn't show up due to the ice storm so now they are running about 2 weeks behind. They need to have it dried-in by the end of the month so the interior crews can start. Might have to throw some plywood up so the interior crews can start on time.

[RecycleMichael]

Maybe Celine Dion can sing out in the parking lot.

[Rico]

Home Depot is having a sale on their Large tarps.


^
p.s. Ruffie...  You have some strange case of hero worship there man.

[spoonbill]

quote:Originally posted by TheArtist

quote:Originally posted by Rico

quote:Originally posted by TheArtist

Yes there was a flurry of activity and hope when the arena was started and vision 2025 passed.

But then the reality of how long it takes to do things took hold. The Mayo Hotel and Mayo Buildings will add a good amount of living... but will take a lot of time. First Street Lofts, Matthews lofts and art museum... will take a lot of time. East End deal fell through for now and even when something real gets announced, I am betting this year.... it will still take years to get going. Brady theater remodel fell though for its own reasons. etc. etc.

We are just going to have to realize that we arent going to have the downtown we want as soon as we would like. My bet is that is we will be where OKC is now, in 2012 or 2013. And of course they are going to grow more this year, and so on.  

Even the River District that just got approved for development will take about a year just to do the "dirt work". About a year to prep the site, grading, water lines, sewer, electrical, roads, lake, etc.  before any construction actually starts. Once it gets going though it will really move.

I think the Mayor is taking solid steps with the planning and working hard to make things happen. But even just that process and starting things takes a looot of work. But once that foundation is laid out you will begin to see movement of the kind we have been wanting. Even the arena, the streets, sidewalks,new park, consolidation of city hall that will eventually free up some property, etc are basically "priming the canvas". Getting some of the living and other things I mentioned done or underway will only help the momentum once things really start going in about 4 or 5 years.

Yea 4 or 5 years sounds like an eternity when you want it now lol. But it seems to me to be an honest time scale. Just hang in there.  

If I am reading you accurately, a reasonable expectation for a Hotel, to house the hoards of people coming to conventions and concerts would be roughly "4 to 5 years" after it opens....

What I would like to know is where are the bankable investments..?

You know.... The companies that pay people to find them an investment with a certain degree of promised return on their money.?

I think we all can see the effect of the "tax dollars" from V2025...

Everyone is aware that the City condemned the Towerview, has City Hall for sale, etc.

You say the " consolidation of city hall that will eventually free up some property"..
The problem I have with that is: The Arena was to have brought forward a surge of investment. We, as a City, are banking on increased Tax Revenue to make this whole thing fly.
Hell.... we have no suitors that I am aware of for Towerview.

Where is it at? Where is the economic momentum that all this tax money was to have created?

I doubt Tulsa can hold it's breath for 4 to 5 years if somethings do not begin to pop..

At this point I honestly dont think the arena itself can bring a new hotel near it. Nobody in their right mind is going to buy the old city hall building anytime soon and put a hotel in there. The whole plaza would have to be ripped up and the buildings around it remodeled. The towerview site is still the better site if your going to build near the arena imo. (I still think it was a good idea to move though) My 4-5 year scenario is more contingent on a Baseball stadium going in on the East End, possibly where the Hartford building now is. That coupled with some development around it, including a small hotel, the Mayo Hotel lofts/hotel, Matthews building etc. PLUS the Arena will then begin to create enough life and interest to create a bustling downtown environment that will begin to grow on its own without "government intervention". Any "baseball stadium plus" deal that is announced will take several years to start and build then a few years to see other developments start during and after that. So, optimistically 4-5 years IF we get a baseball stadium and something around it.  

If no other large East End type development goes in and or no Baseball Stadium, then even the 4-5 year consideration could turn into a 10-15 year slog to get our downtown on the move. For then we would be forced to rely on small steps, each one taking years to start and get going. And thats if we really keep pushing and working at it.

I remember people criticizing me for being all gung ho about the "Heavenly Hospitality" deal. Though I doubt they were for real even if we went with their demands. People were saying we shouldnt go with the "first person who asked us to the dance". I was like "Tulsa is the fat girl with stringy hair, missing a tooth and standing in the corner. If someone halfway decent asks her to dance, she needs to be thrilled and go dance lol. Everyone was like "Dont worry about it we will get lots of offers". I was just baffled by that. We are not. The suburbs will get more offers. And look what has happened.

There was a window of opportunity when there was a lot of buzz going on with downtown. Now that the Kanbar thing and the East End thing"s" have flopped. The arena by itself cant carry the day. We need something else or its going to take a long slow haul where even 10-15 years could be optimistic.

A group of investors with Starwood hotels already tried to build near the new arena (a Weston).  Their major stipulation was that the city move the bus station a few blocks away.  The City told them to go take a hike.  

The group was quite baffled.  They are now looking at Broken Arrow just north of the Bass Pro and near what may be another large _____ and festival grounds on top of the hill (you fill in the blanks).

Hint: 5 Letters. Buy 3 vowels.


Loft Hotel for BA

[brunoflipper]

quote:Originally posted by spoonbill

quote:Originally posted by TheArtist

quote:Originally posted by Rico

quote:Originally posted by TheArtist

Yes there was a flurry of activity and hope when the arena was started and vision 2025 passed.

But then the reality of how long it takes to do things took hold. The Mayo Hotel and Mayo Buildings will add a good amount of living... but will take a lot of time. First Street Lofts, Matthews lofts and art museum... will take a lot of time. East End deal fell through for now and even when something real gets announced, I am betting this year.... it will still take years to get going. Brady theater remodel fell though for its own reasons. etc. etc.

We are just going to have to realize that we arent going to have the downtown we want as soon as we would like. My bet is that is we will be where OKC is now, in 2012 or 2013. And of course they are going to grow more this year, and so on.  

Even the River District that just got approved for development will take about a year just to do the "dirt work". About a year to prep the site, grading, water lines, sewer, electrical, roads, lake, etc.  before any construction actually starts. Once it gets going though it will really move.

I think the Mayor is taking solid steps with the planning and working hard to make things happen. But even just that process and starting things takes a looot of work. But once that foundation is laid out you will begin to see movement of the kind we have been wanting. Even the arena, the streets, sidewalks,new park, consolidation of city hall that will eventually free up some property, etc are basically "priming the canvas". Getting some of the living and other things I mentioned done or underway will only help the momentum once things really start going in about 4 or 5 years.

Yea 4 or 5 years sounds like an eternity when you want it now lol. But it seems to me to be an honest time scale. Just hang in there.  

If I am reading you accurately, a reasonable expectation for a Hotel, to house the hoards of people coming to conventions and concerts would be roughly "4 to 5 years" after it opens....

What I would like to know is where are the bankable investments..?

You know.... The companies that pay people to find them an investment with a certain degree of promised return on their money.?

I think we all can see the effect of the "tax dollars" from V2025...

Everyone is aware that the City condemned the Towerview, has City Hall for sale, etc.

You say the " consolidation of city hall that will eventually free up some property"..
The problem I have with that is: The Arena was to have brought forward a surge of investment. We, as a City, are banking on increased Tax Revenue to make this whole thing fly.
Hell.... we have no suitors that I am aware of for Towerview.

Where is it at? Where is the economic momentum that all this tax money was to have created?

I doubt Tulsa can hold it's breath for 4 to 5 years if somethings do not begin to pop..

At this point I honestly dont think the arena itself can bring a new hotel near it. Nobody in their right mind is going to buy the old city hall building anytime soon and put a hotel in there. The whole plaza would have to be ripped up and the buildings around it remodeled. The towerview site is still the better site if your going to build near the arena imo. (I still think it was a good idea to move though) My 4-5 year scenario is more contingent on a Baseball stadium going in on the East End, possibly where the Hartford building now is. That coupled with some development around it, including a small hotel, the Mayo Hotel lofts/hotel, Matthews building etc. PLUS the Arena will then begin to create enough life and interest to create a bustling downtown environment that will begin to grow on its own without "government intervention". Any "baseball stadium plus" deal that is announced will take several years to start and build then a few years to see other developments start during and after that. So, optimistically 4-5 years IF we get a baseball stadium and something around it.  

If no other large East End type development goes in and or no Baseball Stadium, then even the 4-5 year consideration could turn into a 10-15 year slog to get our downtown on the move. For then we would be forced to rely on small steps, each one taking years to start and get going. And thats if we really keep pushing and working at it.

I remember people criticizing me for being all gung ho about the "Heavenly Hospitality" deal. Though I doubt they were for real even if we went with their demands. People were saying we shouldnt go with the "first person who asked us to the dance". I was like "Tulsa is the fat girl with stringy hair, missing a tooth and standing in the corner. If someone halfway decent asks her to dance, she needs to be thrilled and go dance lol. Everyone was like "Dont worry about it we will get lots of offers". I was just baffled by that. We are not. The suburbs will get more offers. And look what has happened.

There was a window of opportunity when there was a lot of buzz going on with downtown. Now that the Kanbar thing and the East End thing"s" have flopped. The arena by itself cant carry the day. We need something else or its going to take a long slow haul where even 10-15 years could be optimistic.

A group of investors with Starwood hotels already tried to build near the new arena (a Weston).  Their major stipulation was that the city move the bus station a few blocks away.  The City told them to go take a hike.  

The group was quite baffled.  They are now looking at Broken Arrow just north of the Bass Pro and near what may be another large _____ and festival grounds on top of the hill (you fill in the blanks).

Hint: 5 Letters. Buy 3 vowels.


Loft Hotel for BA

heavenly hospitality??? surely, you jest... those guys are charlatans...

[spoonbill]

quote:Originally posted by brunoflipper

quote:Originally posted by spoonbill

quote:Originally posted by TheArtist

quote:Originally posted by Rico

quote:Originally posted by TheArtist

Yes there was a flurry of activity and hope when the arena was started and vision 2025 passed.

But then the reality of how long it takes to do things took hold. The Mayo Hotel and Mayo Buildings will add a good amount of living... but will take a lot of time. First Street Lofts, Matthews lofts and art museum... will take a lot of time. East End deal fell through for now and even when something real gets announced, I am betting this year.... it will still take years to get going. Brady theater remodel fell though for its own reasons. etc. etc.

We are just going to have to realize that we arent going to have the downtown we want as soon as we would like. My bet is that is we will be where OKC is now, in 2012 or 2013. And of course they are going to grow more this year, and so on.  

Even the River District that just got approved for development will take about a year just to do the "dirt work". About a year to prep the site, grading, water lines, sewer, electrical, roads, lake, etc.  before any construction actually starts. Once it gets going though it will really move.

I think the Mayor is taking solid steps with the planning and working hard to make things happen. But even just that process and starting things takes a looot of work. But once that foundation is laid out you will begin to see movement of the kind we have been wanting. Even the arena, the streets, sidewalks,new park, consolidation of city hall that will eventually free up some property, etc are basically "priming the canvas". Getting some of the living and other things I mentioned done or underway will only help the momentum once things really start going in about 4 or 5 years.

Yea 4 or 5 years sounds like an eternity when you want it now lol. But it seems to me to be an honest time scale. Just hang in there.  

If I am reading you accurately, a reasonable expectation for a Hotel, to house the hoards of people coming to conventions and concerts would be roughly "4 to 5 years" after it opens....

What I would like to know is where are the bankable investments..?

You know.... The companies that pay people to find them an investment with a certain degree of promised return on their money.?

I think we all can see the effect of the "tax dollars" from V2025...

Everyone is aware that the City condemned the Towerview, has City Hall for sale, etc.

You say the " consolidation of city hall that will eventually free up some property"..
The problem I have with that is: The Arena was to have brought forward a surge of investment. We, as a City, are banking on increased Tax Revenue to make this whole thing fly.
Hell.... we have no suitors that I am aware of for Towerview.

Where is it at? Where is the economic momentum that all this tax money was to have created?

I doubt Tulsa can hold it's breath for 4 to 5 years if somethings do not begin to pop..

At this point I honestly dont think the arena itself can bring a new hotel near it. Nobody in their right mind is going to buy the old city hall building anytime soon and put a hotel in there. The whole plaza would have to be ripped up and the buildings around it remodeled. The towerview site is still the better site if your going to build near the arena imo. (I still think it was a good idea to move though) My 4-5 year scenario is more contingent on a Baseball stadium going in on the East End, possibly where the Hartford building now is. That coupled with some development around it, including a small hotel, the Mayo Hotel lofts/hotel, Matthews building etc. PLUS the Arena will then begin to create enough life and interest to create a bustling downtown environment that will begin to grow on its own without "government intervention". Any "baseball stadium plus" deal that is announced will take several years to start and build then a few years to see other developments start during and after that. So, optimistically 4-5 years IF we get a baseball stadium and something around it.  

If no other large East End type development goes in and or no Baseball Stadium, then even the 4-5 year consideration could turn into a 10-15 year slog to get our downtown on the move. For then we would be forced to rely on small steps, each one taking years to start and get going. And thats if we really keep pushing and working at it.

I remember people criticizing me for being all gung ho about the "Heavenly Hospitality" deal. Though I doubt they were for real even if we went with their demands. People were saying we shouldnt go with the "first person who asked us to the dance". I was like "Tulsa is the fat girl with stringy hair, missing a tooth and standing in the corner. If someone halfway decent asks her to dance, she needs to be thrilled and go dance lol. Everyone was like "Dont worry about it we will get lots of offers". I was just baffled by that. We are not. The suburbs will get more offers. And look what has happened.

There was a window of opportunity when there was a lot of buzz going on with downtown. Now that the Kanbar thing and the East End thing"s" have flopped. The arena by itself cant carry the day. We need something else or its going to take a long slow haul where even 10-15 years could be optimistic.

A group of investors with Starwood hotels already tried to build near the new arena (a Weston).  Their major stipulation was that the city move the bus station a few blocks away.  The City told them to go take a hike.  

The group was quite baffled.  They are now looking at Broken Arrow just north of the Bass Pro and near what may be another large _____ and festival grounds on top of the hill (you fill in the blanks).

Hint: 5 Letters. Buy 3 vowels.


Loft Hotel for BA

heavenly hospitality??? surely, you jest... those guys are charlatans...

I know the two brothers are goofy, and produced some other development plans that were insane, but they woke up Starwood, and they are moving on BA.  Two more developers are working on a "Redrock" style festival and concert facility with Starwood's new concept as an anchor.  The rumor is that they don't want anything to do with Tulsa politics.

[cannon_fodder]

Moving the bus station was no little thing.  It would have required a buyout of federal funds used in its construction.  Not too mention the bus station was placed there specifically for its proximity to City Hall (NA now, but we didn't know that then), the court houses, and the library - not too mention the new arena.  

The Peabody in Memphis is about a lock away from the greyhound station... but the Westin in Tulsa can't be close to the MUCH nicer municipal station?

Of course, they also demanded the centennial trail be moved the Right Annex be demolished, the Coney Islander be renovated and a ton of other things the city could not do in good conscience (hey, change your property because another property owner wants us to make you do it!).

Also, any development going in out near bass pro would be essentially a different market than downtown Tulsa.  Condo's, multi story offices, and urban retail don't exactly fit well in BA.  And a hotel to service conventions and an events center is far different than on 15-20 miles out in a suburb.  Some effect, sure.  But not exactly direct competition.

Also, I'm dense.  I totally can not think of a 5 letter word with 3 vowels that goes with "and festival grounds."  That phrase is tied to "camping and festival grounds" in my head.  Retail doesnt make sense.  Throw me a bone, its driving me nuts.
- - -

In any event...  I'm surprise and appalled that nothing has gone in that vast emptiness around the arena.  Apparently the free market either disagrees with the official line that downtown needs more rooms, doesnt think the arena will attract many acts, or doesnt want to bet on downtown Tulsa at all.  Sad to say that, generally, the free-market (read: people betting with their money) has a better idea than government (people PLAYING with other people's money).

[spoonbill]

quote:Originally posted by cannon_fodder

Also, I'm dense.  I totally can not think of a 5 letter word with 3 vowels that goes with "and festival grounds."  That phrase is tied to "camping and festival grounds" in my head.  Retail doesnt make sense.  Throw me a bone, its driving me nuts.
n government (people PLAYING with other people's money).

Ok Cannon,
If you had an outdoor festival grounds with multiple stages and say. . .space for 8 to 12 thousand outside, and you had a groovy upscale modern Hotel next to more hotels, retail, restaurants, Bass Pro, and only a few minutes from the "big city" of Tulsa.  What would you build if you had enough land and the appropriate demographic?

[brunoflipper]

quote:Originally posted by spoonbill

quote:Originally posted by brunoflipper

quote:Originally posted by spoonbill

quote:Originally posted by TheArtist

quote:Originally posted by Rico

quote:Originally posted by TheArtist

Yes there was a flurry of activity and hope when the arena was started and vision 2025 passed.

But then the reality of how long it takes to do things took hold. The Mayo Hotel and Mayo Buildings will add a good amount of living... but will take a lot of time. First Street Lofts, Matthews lofts and art museum... will take a lot of time. East End deal fell through for now and even when something real gets announced, I am betting this year.... it will still take years to get going. Brady theater remodel fell though for its own reasons. etc. etc.

We are just going to have to realize that we arent going to have the downtown we want as soon as we would like. My bet is that is we will be where OKC is now, in 2012 or 2013. And of course they are going to grow more this year, and so on.  

Even the River District that just got approved for development will take about a year just to do the "dirt work". About a year to prep the site, grading, water lines, sewer, electrical, roads, lake, etc.  before any construction actually starts. Once it gets going though it will really move.

I think the Mayor is taking solid steps with the planning and working hard to make things happen. But even just that process and starting things takes a looot of work. But once that foundation is laid out you will begin to see movement of the kind we have been wanting. Even the arena, the streets, sidewalks,new park, consolidation of city hall that will eventually free up some property, etc are basically "priming the canvas". Getting some of the living and other things I mentioned done or underway will only help the momentum once things really start going in about 4 or 5 years.

Yea 4 or 5 years sounds like an eternity when you want it now lol. But it seems to me to be an honest time scale. Just hang in there.  

If I am reading you accurately, a reasonable expectation for a Hotel, to house the hoards of people coming to conventions and concerts would be roughly "4 to 5 years" after it opens....

What I would like to know is where are the bankable investments..?

You know.... The companies that pay people to find them an investment with a certain degree of promised return on their money.?

I think we all can see the effect of the "tax dollars" from V2025...

Everyone is aware that the City condemned the Towerview, has City Hall for sale, etc.

You say the " consolidation of city hall that will eventually free up some property"..
The problem I have with that is: The Arena was to have brought forward a surge of investment. We, as a City, are banking on increased Tax Revenue to make this whole thing fly.
Hell.... we have no suitors that I am aware of for Towerview.

Where is it at? Where is the economic momentum that all this tax money was to have created?

I doubt Tulsa can hold it's breath for 4 to 5 years if somethings do not begin to pop..

At this point I honestly dont think the arena itself can bring a new hotel near it. Nobody in their right mind is going to buy the old city hall building anytime soon and put a hotel in there. The whole plaza would have to be ripped up and the buildings around it remodeled. The towerview site is still the better site if your going to build near the arena imo. (I still think it was a good idea to move though) My 4-5 year scenario is more contingent on a Baseball stadium going in on the East End, possibly where the Hartford building now is. That coupled with some development around it, including a small hotel, the Mayo Hotel lofts/hotel, Matthews building etc. PLUS the Arena will then begin to create enough life and interest to create a bustling downtown environment that will begin to grow on its own without "government intervention". Any "baseball stadium plus" deal that is announced will take several years to start and build then a few years to see other developments start during and after that. So, optimistically 4-5 years IF we get a baseball stadium and something around it.  

If no other large East End type development goes in and or no Baseball Stadium, then even the 4-5 year consideration could turn into a 10-15 year slog to get our downtown on the move. For then we would be forced to rely on small steps, each one taking years to start and get going. And thats if we really keep pushing and working at it.

I remember people criticizing me for being all gung ho about the "Heavenly Hospitality" deal. Though I doubt they were for real even if we went with their demands. People were saying we shouldnt go with the "first person who asked us to the dance". I was like "Tulsa is the fat girl with stringy hair, missing a tooth and standing in the corner. If someone halfway decent asks her to dance, she needs to be thrilled and go dance lol. Everyone was like "Dont worry about it we will get lots of offers". I was just baffled by that. We are not. The suburbs will get more offers. And look what has happened.

There was a window of opportunity when there was a lot of buzz going on with downtown. Now that the Kanbar thing and the East End thing"s" have flopped. The arena by itself cant carry the day. We need something else or its going to take a long slow haul where even 10-15 years could be optimistic.

A group of investors with Starwood hotels already tried to build near the new arena (a Weston).  Their major stipulation was that the city move the bus station a few blocks away.  The City told them to go take a hike.  

The group was quite baffled.  They are now looking at Broken Arrow just north of the Bass Pro and near what may be another large _____ and festival grounds on top of the hill (you fill in the blanks).

Hint: 5 Letters. Buy 3 vowels.


Loft Hotel for BA

heavenly hospitality??? surely, you jest... those guys are charlatans...

I know the two brothers are goofy, and produced some other development plans that were insane, but they woke up Starwood, and they are moving on BA.  Two more developers are working on a "Redrock" style festival and concert facility with Starwood's new concept as an anchor.  The rumor is that they don't want anything to do with Tulsa politics.

worse, theyre complete bull****... they are no longe involved in the colorado springs development and theyve never done anything more than a marriott....

[spoonbill]

quote:Originally posted by brunoflipperS

worse, theyre complete bull****... they are no longe involved in the colorado springs development and theyve never done anything more than a marriott....

. . . and they can destroy an all-you-can-eat buffet in one fail swoop!

They have nothing to do with the new development in BA.

[brunoflipper]

quote:Originally posted by spoonbill

quote:Originally posted by brunoflipperS

worse, theyre complete bull****... they are no longe involved in the colorado springs development and theyve never done anything more than a marriott....

. . . and they can destroy an all-you-can-eat buffet in one fail swoop!

They have nothing to do with the new development in BA.

you said "they are now looking at broken arrow" i assumed you meant "they" as in the same group of bull**** wackos...

[spoonbill]

quote:Originally posted by brunoflipper

quote:Originally posted by spoonbill

quote:Originally posted by brunoflipperS

worse, theyre complete bull****... they are no longe involved in the colorado springs development and theyve never done anything more than a marriott....

. . . and they can destroy an all-you-can-eat buffet in one fail swoop!

They have nothing to do with the new development in BA.

you said "they are now looking at broken arrow" i assumed you meant "they" as in the same group of bull**** wackos...

No. . . They as in Starwood Development Group.

[brunoflipper]

well in that case... four points by sheraton would  be the most id hope for in b.a.....