Signs Gone WILD: Legal or NOT. YOU Decide

[mrhaskellok]

quote:Originally posted by waterboy

quote:Originally posted by ARGUS

I really like to pluck the illeagal signs placed by the litter on a stck vendors themselves! Ha Ha ha get 'em where it hurts!
CLEAN UP TULSA!
On our current path we will look like a Joplin if we are not carefull <bad thing; trust me>.

I made a list the other day of the illegal signs on my south Tulsa route. They could be made public or used in some way to encourage them to follow the law. There weren't that many. Some non-profits, some politicians, some tree guys and of course the scams.

You should make a sign that lists the illegal signs and put them on the corners to scare off the bad businesses.

[]

[Robinson]

Just wait for someone with a seizure disorder to get triggered by the flashing signs. Who pays - the city for allowing them or the store owner who installed them?

[mrhaskellok]

quote: Just wait for someone with a seizure disorder to get triggered by the flashing signs. Who pays - the city for allowing them or the store owner who installed them?

No no no!  This is my point with these signs.  

Unfortunately we have become used to the "government" to solve these problems or worse, protect us from the problems before it "happens".  The reality is, government does a poor job of just about anything ( I know, shocking eh?).  Don't get me wrong, I am a big fan of government.  In the federalist papers, our founding fathers said that if men were angels, we wouldn't need government because everyone would do the right thing by one another.
Government, I believe, is far more effective at providing good laws that protect ones RIGHTS, and then a providing a good justice system to mediate all other issues that will of course arise.  Because, we all know that we have problems that come up that have very little to do with ones civil liberties, etc.
Example,
Who is the victim of these of all these illegal signs?  The city.  It is city owned land, they hold the deed in almost all cases, no one else,  So they should be able to police their land according to the rules set forth for them.  

BUT, flashing sings one Joe Blows property is not the same.  The victim ( if there is one) is not the city.  It is the guy who claims light pollution, nuisance, etc.  
The city should have a simple streamlined mediation process to mitigate these cases.  

I hope I am explaining my position.  I guess I just see it as a victim issue.  Speeding = public right away, too easy to regulate constitutionally.  
Private property = sticky because of constitutional property rights.  

I think communities may ( and I am theorizing) find it an easier and more effective solution to allow people like the sign nazi to simply carry the burden of declaring any sign on private property a nuisance.  Remember, we are supposed to be innocent until proven guilty and so laws governing our property (constitutional rights) should be based on some infraction.  No victim, no infraction.

All that being said, I still applaud the city of Tulsa putting a stop to any new permits until the matter can be addressed. I always feel that is a fair way to deal with the situation until it can be analyzed further.  My suggestion above is more theoretical.

Thanks for giving me the space to "wonder"

[]

[buzz words]

I've noticed that the city of Jenks has signs everywhere promoting their "herbal festival" both in Jenks as well as 71st & Riverside to 101st & Riverside area.

So are the benches illegal or not?

[1099paralegal]

quote:Originally posted by buzz words

I've noticed that the city of Jenks has signs everywhere promoting their "herbal festival" both in Jenks as well as 71st & Riverside to 101st & Riverside area.

So are the benches illegal or not?

According to City Ordinance Title 51 Section 3107.18, "no sign shall be permitted in the right-of-way of a street under any circumstances...Any sign located in the right-of-way of a public street is by this section declared a public nuisance, a danger to public safety..."



Tulsa Revised Ordinance Title 42 Section 1800 defines the above sign on benches as an "outdoor advertising sign."  It "directs attention to a business, commodity, service, or entertainment, sold or offered elsewhere than on the lot on which it is located."

Title 42 Section 1221.F regulates use conditions for outdoor advertising signs.  "Outdoor advertising signs shall be permitted in CS, CG, CH, CBD, IL, IM and IH zoning districts when located within a freeway sign corridor."

Freeway defined, Title 42 Section 1800: "A street designated as a freeway on the Major Street Plan."

A freeway sign corridor is "an area 400 feet in width on each side of and adjacent to the publicly acquired right-of-way of a freeway."

Title 42 Section 1221.F.7: "an outdoor advertising sign shall be oriented to be primarily visible from the freeway."

According to Title 42 Section 1221.F.7., combined with Title 52 Section 3107.18, bench signs are non-conforming signs, declared "public nuisances" and "danger to public safety."

Title 42 Section 1403: "If the sign is nonconforming by reason of restrictions other than on its setback from R districts or from designated residential development areas, said sign shall be removed or made to conform on or before January 1, 1995."

Conclusion:  Unless granted variances or special exceptions, bench signs subject to removal.  They are non-conforming signs:
A) Statutorily defined as outdoor advertising signs;
B) Not located within freeway sign corridors;
C) Not primarily visible from the freeway;
D) Located on the public right-of-ways of Tulsa City-County Major Streets and Highway Plan primary and secondary arterials;
E) And, declared "public nuisances" and "danger to public safety."

Penalties, Title 42 Section 1502:  Any person, firm or corporation violating any provisions of this code or failing to comply with any of its requirements, including violations of conditions and safeguards established in connection with grants of variance or special exceptions, shall be deemed guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by a fine of not more than $500.00 or by imprisonment not exceeding 90 days, or by both such fine and imprisonment. Each day that a violation continues shall be deemed a separate offense.

[!]

[RecycleMichael]

I have a problem with all the benches.

There are more than 500 illegal benches in Tulsa.

[buzz words]

quote:Originally posted by RecycleMichael

I have a problem with all the benches.

There are more than 500 illegal bench's in Tulsa.

How do the benches distract you?  I notice a billboard more often then a bench.  Is this really a problem or a reason to complain?
What is the underlying reason?

[RecycleMichael]

Look at their location. Many are at the corner of intersections, a place where no bus could ever stop.

They are illegal and should be picked up by the city. They could never be permitted, but this guy (Cooke Advertising) keeps sticking them in right-of-way all over town. I can count over a dozen on Sheridan between 21st and 51st.

Do you think someone should be allowed to put advertising billboards all over town without permission from the property owners and without permits from the city?

[buzz words]

quote:Originally posted by RecycleMichael

Look at their location. Many are at the corner of intersections, a place where no bus could ever stop.

They are illegal and should be picked up by the city. They could never be permitted, but this guy (Cooke Advertising) keeps sticking them in right-of-way all over town. I can count over a dozen on Sheridan between 21st and 51st.

Do you think someone should be allowed to put advertising billboards all over town without permission from the property owners and without permits from the city?

No, I don't but if a bench is next to a bus stop location I don't see how that would be a distraction.

[RecycleMichael]

What part of illegal do you not understand?

What right would someone have to just put billboards disguised as useless benches that no one would ever sit on?

[buzz words]

quote:Originally posted by RecycleMichael

What part of illegal do you not understand?

What right would someone have to just put billboards disguised as useless benches that no one would ever sit on?

Maybe if you read what I wrote you would understand me. Not once did I suggest that I do not understand what is and what is not legal.  Oral sex in Oklahoma is still illegal but what justifies it? These non-flashing benches that are placed next to a bus stop do not distract you!! The sign is normally at or below Eye level if you are in a car. By the way do you drive a car or suv?. These benches that are not making me any money (FYI) are not a distraction.  Once again the question still remains what is the underlying issue?  Is this an opportunity to complain, is it that you dislike the advertisement company, what's the truth?

If your point is they should not be there because they're legal is true than if the company was able to produce permits and the city approved them would you still complain?

[custosnox]

Now how about this one?




Like this isn't going to be a distraction

[buzz words]

How does a small business advertise without spending over $1000.00 per month with it being as affective as billboards?

[mrhaskellok]

quote:Originally posted by buzz words

How does a small business advertise without spending over $1000.00 per month with it being as affective as billboards?

Are you assuming they have the right? Or are you just curious?  My company does grassroots style advertising...we go to our customer, where they work and ask them for our business.  I am in charge of marketing/advertising so I choose this method over just about any other.  Far better long lasting benifits and no ugly signs.

[buzz words]

What about the no solicitors signs on the door?