Some minor movement on the low water dams

[sgrizzle]

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=20080115_1_A9_spanc87803

quote:
Commission starts paperwork for dams

by: KEVIN CANFIELD World Staff Writer
1/15/2008  12:00 AM

The County Commission voted unanimously Monday to begin accepting requests for qualifications for engineering and design work for low-water dams in Sand Springs and Jenks and for modifications to Zink Dam in Tulsa.

Kirby Crowe of Program Management Group, which administers Vision 2025 programs for the county, said he expects to recommend a firm to the commission by April or May.

Firms that submit requests for qualifications are not re quired to include a fee for their services, Crowe said.

The fee will be negotiated once the firm is selected, he said.

The commissioners' action comes more than three months after county residents rejected a $282 million river-development proposal. The plan would have been funded by increasing the county sales tax 0.4 percent for seven years.

A group of local leaders has been meeting since the Oct. 9 vote to discuss river development options.

The commissioners voted in December to accept the group's recommendation to proceed with the $9.5 million in river projects approved by voters in the Vision 2025 package.

Crowe estimated that the design and engineering work could take 18 months to two years to complete.

The $23 billion federal Water Resources Development Act, which Congress passed in November, authorizes $50 million for Arkansas River development projects. That includes funds that could be used for ecosystem restoration, recreation and flood damage-reduction projects.

County commissioners will continue to look for funds to build the dams.

[inteller]

I thought they already ****ing did the engineering and design work.  I thought throughout the river tax they said that the money had already been spent on that stuff?  How many more design studies do we have to endure?  Someone is getting paid a lot of money to be an arm chair beaver.

[spoonbill]

quote:Originally posted by inteller

I thought they already ****ing did the engineering and design work.  I thought throughout the river tax they said that the money had already been spent on that stuff?  How many more design studies do we have to endure?  Someone is getting paid a lot of money to be an arm chair beaver.

Hey, I resemble that remark!  
The engineering is done, as far as I know, but, from what I hear, there is still bickering on small land issues affecting one of our more outspoken Tulsa residents who has interest in a significant amount of river-front land in Jenks.

Oh!. . . and I think they have to get approval from the Core of Engineers, and will have to produce significant environmental studies.  I'd say it's about 10 to 20 years out if we don't loose interest.

[we vs us]

What are the significance of low water dams to Tulsa and the region?  Doesn't really say in the article, apart from eco-stuff (flood control, etc).

[si_uk_lon_ok]

quote:Originally posted by sgrizzle

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=20080115_1_A9_spanc87803

quote:
Commission starts paperwork for dams

by: KEVIN CANFIELD World Staff Writer
1/15/2008  12:00 AM

The County Commission voted unanimously Monday to begin accepting requests for qualifications for engineering and design work for low-water dams in Sand Springs and Jenks and for modifications to Zink Dam in Tulsa.

Kirby Crowe of Program Management Group, which administers Vision 2025 programs for the county, said he expects to recommend a firm to the commission by April or May.

Firms that submit requests for qualifications are not re quired to include a fee for their services, Crowe said.

The fee will be negotiated once the firm is selected, he said.

The commissioners' action comes more than three months after county residents rejected a $282 million river-development proposal. The plan would have been funded by increasing the county sales tax 0.4 percent for seven years.

A group of local leaders has been meeting since the Oct. 9 vote to discuss river development options.

The commissioners voted in December to accept the group's recommendation to proceed with the $9.5 million in river projects approved by voters in the Vision 2025 package.

Crowe estimated that the design and engineering work could take 18 months to two years to complete.

The $23 billion federal Water Resources Development Act, which Congress passed in November, authorizes $50 million for Arkansas River development projects. That includes funds that could be used for ecosystem restoration, recreation and flood damage-reduction projects.

County commissioners will continue to look for funds to build the dams.

Is it not unusual to not ask firms to submit their fee before being selected?

[cannon_fodder]

I had renewed confidence in the river a few days ago when the CEO of SemGroup commented "we will put water in that river.  It's going to happen."  Or something to that effect at the end of an article in the Tulsa World (not yesterday's SemGroup article).

When a business leader with Billions says he wants to see something happen, then it very well may happen.  Especially if he isn't calling for public money to do it with.

[sgrizzle]

quote:Originally posted by we vs us

What are the significance of low water dams to Tulsa and the region?  Doesn't really say in the article, apart from eco-stuff (flood control, etc).

The river is barren most of the year and the low water dams are meant to slow the flow and keep the river more full during the year. Tulsa has long been chastised for not developing the river and making the river flow year round is a first step in that.


On the engineering side, they have done environmental studies, hydrological studies, etc. All just making sure we can put them where we want to and what areas will need shored up etc. If this was a new office building being built, we just got the news the land is safe to build on. So we are far from having the whole thing designed. They don't just shove dirt in the river and say "tada"

[TheArtist]

quote:Originally posted by inteller

I thought they already ****ing did the engineering and design work.  I thought throughout the river tax they said that the money had already been spent on that stuff?  How many more design studies do we have to endure?  Someone is getting paid a lot of money to be an arm chair beaver.

Different engineering study. Studies for the dam placements are different than studies for design types. etc.

Any idea yet on when any federal funds may come through. They still have to be put in an appropriations bill but I suppose you might have to know what kind of dams your building first to estimate costs?

[sgrizzle]

quote:Originally posted by TheArtist

quote:Originally posted by inteller

I thought they already ****ing did the engineering and design work.  I thought throughout the river tax they said that the money had already been spent on that stuff?  How many more design studies do we have to endure?  Someone is getting paid a lot of money to be an arm chair beaver.

Different engineering study. Studies for the dam placements are different than studies for design types. etc.

Any idea yet on when any federal funds may come through. They still have to be put in an appropriations bill but I suppose you might have to know what kind of dams your building first to estimate costs?

I think it's $50M no matter what the plan.

[Renaissance]

quote:Originally posted by sgrizzle

quote:Originally posted by TheArtist

quote:Originally posted by inteller

I thought they already ****ing did the engineering and design work.  I thought throughout the river tax they said that the money had already been spent on that stuff?  How many more design studies do we have to endure?  Someone is getting paid a lot of money to be an arm chair beaver.

Different engineering study. Studies for the dam placements are different than studies for design types. etc.

Any idea yet on when any federal funds may come through. They still have to be put in an appropriations bill but I suppose you might have to know what kind of dams your building first to estimate costs?

I think it's $50M no matter what the plan.

Yup--it's $50M, period.  And it's already passed: the Water Resources Development Act of 2007, Public Law No. 110-114, passed over Bush's veto on 11/9/2007.

Tulsa will have to request the allocation and be approved for it before funds are disbursed.  I'm looking at what is involved in this right now, as far as agency approval.

[Renaissance]

quote:Originally posted by Floyd

quote:Originally posted by sgrizzle

quote:Originally posted by TheArtist



Any idea yet on when any federal funds may come through. They still have to be put in an appropriations bill but I suppose you might have to know what kind of dams your building first to estimate costs?

I think it's $50M no matter what the plan.

Yup--it's $50M, period.  And it's already passed: the Water Resources Development Act of 2007, Public Law No. 110-114, passed over Bush's veto on 11/9/2007.

Tulsa will have to request the allocation and be approved for it before funds are disbursed.  I'm looking at what is involved in this right now, as far as agency approval.

I have a more complete answer now--

The authorization is law, and it looks like this:

quote: SEC. 3132. ARKANSAS RIVER CORRIDOR, OKLAHOMA.

(a) In General- The Secretary is authorized to participate in the ecosystem restoration, recreation, and flood damage reduction components of the Arkansas River Corridor Master Plan dated October 2005. The Secretary shall coordinate with appropriate representatives in the vicinity of Tulsa, Oklahoma, including representatives of Tulsa County and surrounding communities and the Indian Nations Council of Governments.

(b) Authorization of Appropriations- There is authorized to be appropriated $50,000,000 to carry out this section.

So what we have is a lawful five-year fund authorization, but it will still have to go through Appropriations.  At some point, our congressional delegation will have to insert provisions for appropriating the funds into the federal budget legislation.  At that point, the money will go the Corps, which will coordinate with "appropriate representatives in the vicinity of Tulsa."  This has got to happen by the end of 2012 or we'll lose whatever portion of the $50 million yet to be authorized.

My understanding is that the authorization was the hard part.  Now it's "just" a matter of moving money through Congress and the Corps, which is where Rep. Sullivan and Sen. Inhofe come in.

[sgrizzle]

quote:Originally posted by Floyd


So what we have is a lawful five-year fund authorization, but it will still have to go through Appropriations.  At some point, our congressional delegation will have to insert provisions for appropriating the funds into the federal budget legislation.  At that point, the money will go the Corps, which will coordinate with "appropriate representatives in the vicinity of Tulsa."  This has got to happen by the end of 2012 or we'll lose whatever portion of the $50 million yet to be authorized.

My understanding is that the authorization was the hard part.  Now it's "just" a matter of moving money through Congress and the Corps, which is where Rep. Sullivan and Sen. Inhofe come in.

Inhofe has already stated that he is for it and has been pushing for this for a long time. No problem getting his support.

[Renaissance]

So it's just a matter of making it happen on the Tulsa side.  Let's build some dams.

[TheArtist]

Well apparently you still have to get it through congress. But what about the sentence at the end of the article...

"County commissioners will continue to look for funds to build the dams."

Which of the dams are funded with the 50mill if any? The dams in the river vote would have cost well over 50mill and there is still the shoreline hardening, habitat restoration, etc. to pay for. 50mill is a good start but we will still need more.

I am still hoping we get the larger Sand Springs dam as per the river vote so that there will be flowing water during the day, for more days of the year.

[sgrizzle]

The last vote said $154M for the low water dams, shoreline modification, zink dam modification, and the channeling of the river south of the zink dam.