Downtown Stadium Plan by May 30th

[Renaissance]

quote:Originally posted by TheArtist

Someone leaked something (it wasn't me).


http://www.newson6.com/global/story.asp?s=8121293

But, there is still more "interesting" news to come. Really though, sometimes the press should wait on things. Hopefully this wont mess something up.

Not a lot of substance here beyond what we had already pieced together from bits and hints.  Nice to get media confirmation that the lodging tax won't go up, so there won't be a popular vote after all.

Let me put on my detective hat . . . we're now down to two possibilities as far as I can figure.  1) A major donor or group who will announce they are giving the City of Tulsa a philanthropic gift to build a stadium.  2) An unnamed entity waiting in the wings to develop the area immediately around the stadium, for whom secrecy is paramount because public knowledge would create inflation on the real estate they're eyeing.

My money's on choice #2.  Haven't heard much about the West Bank lately from Larry Huffman and HCW.  I wonder if they are casting eyes toward the CBD . . . Downtown Landing, perhaps?  Just spitballin' here; PM me if I should shut up.

[TheArtist]

I am sure its the same "spitballing" everyone else is doing. Plus, this town is so small, all the players probably already know what is going down regardless.

Now I am interested to see what the renderings will look like. What the baseball stadium will look like. They probably arent even worried about that at this point. However that will have some impact on the cost of the project. Most likely it will not be an "iconic" structure, but will be "suitably handsome". Far as I am concerned thats just fine. We just need to get it done and get some action over there.

[Friendly Bear]

quote:Originally posted by Floyd

I will grant that a 2nd Street location for the stadium, so as to be closer to established bars, might have been a better choice for synergy of the 'hood.  But I think the East End site will be just fine.

And it's not like Tulsa hasn't had the downtown bar scene going for a while.  I remember 6 years ago having a couple of drinks at Arnie's before walking over to Cronies to watch Cross Canadian and Pat Green.  I know Cronies isn't there anymore, but McNellie's has come since.  Tulsa has maintained a nice bar scene downtown for at least 10 years.  The stadium and other improvements, though, should be the shot in the arm to transform it into full-on entertainment district.

66 home games per year is hardly a Dynamic Economic Engine.  That means it probably sits empty another 300 days per year. In that part of town, it will need 24-hour per day security.

Also, a very big part of the earnings from a ballpark are the concessions.  

Do the stadium concessionaires REALLY want to be competing with surrounding bars and restaurants?

Answer:  NO.

[Renaissance]

quote:Originally posted by Friendly Bear



66 home games per year is hardly a Dynamic Economic Engine.  That means it probably sits empty another 300 days per year. In that part of town, it will need 24-hour per day security.

Also, a very big part of the earnings from a ballpark are the concessions.  

Do the stadium concessionaires REALLY want to be competing with surrounding bars and restaurants?

Answer:  NO.

Oh no!  The taxpayers will have to pay for LOCKS!  What a WASTE of taxpayer's MONEY by the EVIL TAX VAMPIRES!

And, woe be to us!  Those Powerful Concession Interests must have managed to keep bars and restaurants from opening anywhere near stadiums across the country!  I mean, just check out all those new ballparks the Conpiracy has prevented new entertainment options around them!

Friendly Bear hates fun.

[TheArtist]

66 home days is 66 more days of having a few thousand more people down there than there are now. Thats something right there. There will be other things along with the stadium. Each little thing adds up. The Arena will bring more people downtown that will also go to any restaurants, etc. by the new stadium. Just removing some more blight from downtown will be an improvement. We will likely hear about more living going in near the area soon as well. Pretty quickly things will cross a threshold, all these initial risks and efforts will spark a spreading fire that will new life to Downtown. Its going to be a very different city in 2012. Those parking lots and abandoned buildings will be but a vague, distant memory. And soon there after we will have to turn our attention to revitalizing the run down, abandoned, 71st corridor. []

[Wrinkle]

They must've gotten all those environmental issues resolved about cleaning up major industrial contamination of this site by its' owner.

Hope they paid for it and not us.

[USRufnex]

quote:Originally posted by Friendly Bear

66 home games per year is hardly a Dynamic Economic Engine.  That means it probably sits empty another 300 days per year. In that part of town, it will need 24-hour per day security.

Also, a very big part of the earnings from a ballpark are the concessions.  

Do the stadium concessionaires REALLY want to be competing with surrounding bars and restaurants?

Answer:  NO.

Skelly Stadium isn't used much either...  unless you're counting TU intramurals (which is not really appropriate use of the stadium, IMO)... but it is a landlmark.

Direct economic impact is probably the weakest argument to build one of these suckers...

What leaves me scratching my head is the idea that Tulsans will walk from the ballpark for blocks to McNellie's or Guapo's... most Tulsans don't know how to walk anywhere, so unless the few blocks around the stadium are made "pedestrian friendly," I don't see the comparison to Bricktown here... and Bricktown enhances the success of OKC's ballpark just as much or more (more IMO) than the ballpark enhances Bricktown...

Lamson said last year that a new ballpark would double attendance.  Well, I guess it would using the same business model the Drillers have-- low rent/high profits off concessions/lotsa ticket giveaways through sponsorships

The Drillers would hafta change their business model to something that is more ticket-based...

Durham Bulls
http://entertainment.howstuffworks.com/minor-league-baseball-team4.htm

quote:Show Me the Money!
There are three main sources of revenue for a minor league team, according to Birling:

Ticket sales - Several weeks before the 2000 season opener, the Bulls had sold over 220,000 tickets -- that's almost half of the 460,000 typically sold in a season. (Birling says the Bulls place a cap on the number of season tickets they sell to allow more tickets for group sales.)
Corporate sales - Ads, wall signs and sponsorships
Actual game revenues - This includes the team's percentage of concession profits (concessions are independently operated), merchandise from the Ballpark Corner Store (gift shop) and proceeds from the popular speed-pitch machine.
Major business expenses include rental of the ballpark (owned and maintained by the city), player-related expenses, payroll for around 100 employees (office, promotional, field, parking staff) on any given game day, National Association of Professional Baseball Leagues dues, and ticket taxes.

The Devil Rays negotiate and pay player salaries, and the Durham Bulls participate with them in paying for bats, balls, equipment and uniforms. Since umpires must remain neutral, the National Association of Professional Baseball Leagues trains, assigns and pays umpires.

I'll put a ten-spot on the Tulsa Landing people... "East End Landing"?  []

[Renaissance]

quote:Originally posted by USRufnex

What leaves me scratching my head is the idea that Tulsans will walk from the ballpark for blocks to McNellie's or Guapo's... most Tulsans don't know how to walk anywhere, so unless the few blocks around the stadium are made "pedestrian friendly," I don't see the comparison to Bricktown here... and Bricktown enhances the success of OKC's ballpark just as much or more (more IMO) than the ballpark enhances Bricktown...

It's not unreasonable to expect that the area between 4th and Frankfort and 2nd and Elgin will attract attention from commercial developers.  In fact, I just realized that the present KOTV studios sits directly between those two points--wonder where this little scoop came from? [] It seems likely that the sale of this parcel and others around it are being negotiated as we speak with the city or my imaginary private development entity.  In fact, I would bet a plug nickel that the option has already been purchased, because otherwise they wouldn't have allowed the story to break.

I could also be full of it.  Again, just spitballin'.

EDIT:  Oh wait, I don't think I'm full of it.  The story states:

quote: The land under consideration was under contract for a Wal-Mart SuperCenter development, which fell through.  That contract was signed over the city and now more land just north of 4th Street, is also being considered as part development around the stadium.

That's where KOTV is.  They've got to be in on the deal.

[godboko71]

Maybe it will be the KOTV, or the Griffin Communications Stadium.

Either way interesting times lay ahead or downtown.

Hopefully they utilize the stadium for things other then baseball to increase over all revenue during the year.

[USRufnex]

"Hopefully they utilize the stadium for things other then baseball to increase over all revenue during the year."

Ah, guess that's my cue......

http://www.uslsoccer.com/insider/229134.html

TOPIC: EXPANSION / USL-1 TEAMS

(Mikey - Charleston, SC) Is USL or any potential owners, actively pursuing an expansion franchise in the near future, particularly in Division 1?

Including the recently announced Austin Aztex franchise which will begin competition in 2009, there are presently 12 active USL-1 clubs. It is our objective to reach 16 clubs by the 2010 season at which point we expect to further evaluate league growth and expansion. This is genuinely achievable without sacrificing quality in the process. Clearly, we need to increase our footprint west of the Mississippi in USL-1 and therefore this is primarily where our proactive efforts to identify ownership groups are focused. A short list of markets from which we believe a USL-1 franchise could be successful with the proper ownership and venue include, but are not limited to (in no specific order): Omaha (NE), Tulsa (OK), San Antonio (TX), Tampa (FL), Phoenix (AZ), Boise (ID), Oklahoma City (OK), Albuquerque (NM), Memphis (TN), and Birmingham (AL). We are currently in advanced discussions with interested parties in several of these markets.

[godboko71]

Only problem with two leagues in the same stadium is having to change over the field, and if the seasons over lap the having to make sure the games are scheduled so that they never are on the same day or even with in days of each other so the change overs go smoothly.

Other then those small problems (which can be over come) I would have no problem with a multi team use facility.

Anyway I wish you luck on your pursuit to pro soccer in Tulsa.

[sgrizzle]

quote:Originally posted by godboko71

Only problem with two leagues in the same stadium is having to change over the field, and if the seasons over lap the having to make sure the games are scheduled so that they never are on the same day or even with in days of each other so the change overs go smoothly.

Other then those small problems (which can be over come) I would have no problem with a multi team use facility.

Anyway I wish you luck on your pursuit to pro soccer in Tulsa.

I heard the Talons/Oilers ran into this one year when they accidentally froze the turf.

[TheArtist]

Well I could have had an easy 10 bucks. But from what I know its not the "Landing" people. Nothing that grand. But still everyone has to admit that just having the ballpark downtown (and possibly not having to raise much or any taxes to pay for it) and it removing some blight from the area is a good thing. That alone would make it more tempting for other developers. Not because of extra people, but because the area will look and be nicer. And, if along with the ballpark we get one or two other things as well.... Thats only additional sweetening to the deal.

[cannon_fodder]

1)  I'm sure D-Fest would love to have a stadium nearby and other concerts would utilize at least a few days.  Also the OU-OSU game is usually in Tulsa and would probably like to utilize a new facility.  Throw in a high school championship/regional or whatever and it could get some utilization to it.  

But the sad fact is FB is correct in that most sports facilities have a low utilization rate.  OU's football stadium is only used 7 times a year as is OSU's "new" $140,000,000+ stadium, Tulsa is spending ~ $40mil on a facility with a similarly poor use pattern.  The Reynolds Center or even the Mabee center probably have less than 66 dates a year.  Few would say those assets are wasted.  

So while it is a factor, the percentage of use is not the deciding factor in the development.

2) The joke about the "industrial contamination" is that if it is left undeveloped it can be contaminated forever.  Apparently it isn't bad enough to warrant any action unless some poor SOB actually wants to do something with the land.  Does that not sound a bit off?
- - -

Overall I hope downtown works.  I think a stadium is an important part of that, but not a necessary part.  If the number simply don't work, then it should not be done.  I do not believe if we build it, they will come.

[edit]

quote:... the plan to move the Tulsa Drillers downtown is a done deal.... the financing of the deal is not done.

Ummm, in that case my retirement is a done deal.  I just don't have the financing.
[/edit]

[PonderInc]

The Drillers will play 70 home games this year.  If you add other games like city and state HS championships, major league pre-season games, local college matchups...and music concerts...you're looking at a lot of bang for the buck.  

Plus, if it's a public investment, there's more than one way of looking at the ledger sheet.  If a private company builds a venue, they have to generate enough profits to pay for it.  If it's a public investment, the profits/success will be measured by increased tax base, increased sales taxes AND the profits generated from the facility itself.