St. Francis Hospital Emergency Room

[ERRN]

I read with interest the post regarding the St. Francis Emergency Room physicians.

As an emergency room nurse, I can tell you firsthand that the administrators at St. Francis Hospital have made some very poor decisions.  

They did not renew the contract of the ER docs that have been staffing their ER for 30+ years.  By the way,there are at lease 20 doctors in the emergency physicians group, not six as mentioned by the personal friend of the Chief of Staff.  Instead, they hired a new group of docs from Ohio, who by their own words call themselves "firefighters" to staff a MAJOR TRAUMA CENTER. These doctors have never staffed an emergency room with more than 15 beds.  SFH has 40+ beds.  

While I do not know all of the going's on with administration, I do know that their decision to release ECI physicians has everything to do with making money and not with patient care.  Never once did anyone from administration come down and talk with the nurses or ancillary staff to see how their decision would effect everyone, they just send down the orders from above.

It is interesting to me that these administrators never seem to understand what it takes to care for acutely sick people.  They just look at the numbers and think that we are there eating bon bons.  They do not provide the latest equipment or adequtely pay the nursing staff.  They refuse to put us on divert when we are overflowing with patients and cannot provide good patient care (because that would reflect poorly and cost SFH a lot of money if we had to turn patients away).  The administrators never come to help when we get into a crisis situation and more staff is needed.  They do a walk about in the ER and determine if we can go on divert.  Then, if they feel it's appropriate,they will give us one hour to figure it all out.  Nice.....

Instead we have 4-6 hour wait times and patients lined up in the hallway like a warzone.  Of course, they do not understand this because when they or their family members need to come into the ER, they can call ahead and we are supposed to keep a room open for them so they do not have to wait in the waiting room, with the thousands of other Tulsans.

Am I resentful?  Yes,somewhat.  The staff in the ER work amazingly well as a group to provide life and death care.  The ability of the nurses and doctors to work together as a team provides a higher level of care. Administration doesn't account for any of that. I am amazed that you can provide 30+ years of service to an organization and then it can all be gone within six months.  Without hesitation, without a goodbye, without trying.  These doctors care about SFH but didn't appear to get the dignity and respect they need.  The up aboves listened to the voices of the few, not the many.  I am disappointed.

The new doctors who have come in do not seem to care about the relationships that need to exist between nurses and doctors. They do not introduce themselves to staff, they do not ask how things are going, they do not seem interested in the long term ability to provide excellent care.

Do I care?  Yes, I hope that things will change at St. Francis ER. I know that administration will pour a large amount of money to ensure that these new doctors are successful, because after all, if they fail to provide, then adminstration will look bad.  And that, above all things, is something they despise.

[FOTD]

I know this to be true.... http://www.tulsanow.net/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8124

This devil does not lie....

[breitee]

Typical Catholic hospital. It's ALWAYS about the money!

[FOTD]

quote:Originally posted by breitee

Typical Catholic hospital. It's ALWAYS about the money!

It's not about mercy.....

[Hawkins]

I've been to the St. Francis ER before. Its where I'm supposed to go under my Community Care HMO.

An absolute nightmare.

I can say this about that ER, the ONLY way I will ever return to it is if I am brought there unconscious and about to die by ambulance.

I will NEVER voluntarily go back. EVER.

[Gaspar]

I worked there for 5 years during college as a Tech and Phlebotomist.  That was 14 years ago.  

I had to go there with my baby girl about a year ago when she had a febrile seizure, and thank god I still knew some of the nurses and one of the docs, or else we would have never gotten out of there.  It took us 3 hours after we got her fever down to get a discharge.  Would have been all night otherwise.

I can't imagine what it's like now with none of the old pro's there.  You can't beat DRs Redden, Miller, Wolf, Huffman, Moore, Bartlet, and Jacobs, et. al., for skill and care.

You can still see them at their minor emergency centers in Tulsa.  I think they actually own those?

[FOTD]

Cannon Fodder and Bruno Flipper care to comment?Spoonbill, what about inaccuracies on my part?
We need your input. Since you, BF deal and CF, are chummy with the muckamucks at St. Francis, tell us again how it goes there! Then tell me I am wrong again.

[Kashmir]

Husband's-cousin's-BIL was also "released" from his contract as an ER Doc there and it was not so he could go work at full time @ MedCenter...he is having to moonlight in Muskogee, Bartlesville, etc.  He says the whole OU group was let go along with another group.  
And that's what I know.

[cannon_fodder]

I can't comment with any "insider knowledge."  I am friends with the Chief of Staff but not on a professional level.  I do not talk to him about hospital operations and even when I asked him about the rumor FOTD posted before he merely said the assessment was not accurate.  He is not a spokesmen nor really part of the administration.

One thing I do know for sure ERRN, is that your line about me is off the mark.  I never said anything about how many MDs staff the ER at St. Francis.  I am the one who is friends with the Chief of Staff and I never said that.  I don't know how many are in the group, how many should be, where they come from, or anything else.

Here is the previous thread on this matter where I never mentioned the number of ER doctors nor claim any special knowledge in these matters (I never said I "knew how it goes there" either FOTD):
http://www.tulsanow.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8124&SearchTerms=chief+staff

So all I know about the poster is that she is a nurse, is an instructor at OSU Okmulgee, and is unhappy with St. Francis.   I am left to assume that she works for St. Francis as an RN in the ER and that she worked there before the change and is not happy with its result.  I can not dispute her assessment of the situation as if my assumptions are true, her information is better than mine.

I can dispute the money scheme to a minor degree.  The administration is charged with fiscal responsibility but as a non-profit making money actually becomes a problem.  Any profit that is made has to be reinvested in the hospital or donated in some manner (usually indigent care by medical facilities).  So I can not speak to the conditions, the equipment or the management of the ER but on a certain level it doesn't bennefit the hospital to make money... I have no better explanation but St. Francis is non-profit and has no real incentive to make large profits (not tat non-profits don't do things that make no sense or they aren't cutting ER expense to bolster another unit).

Basically, I don't know.  If a nurse that works there thinks it was a negative change I can't dispute her opinion.  I could ask my friend again but he will tell me minimal information again as he is not a spokesmen (any large organization the professionals abstain from talking about internal matters).

So I can hope they hear ERRN's criticism and resolve any situation that exists, I can deny that I made any comment about the number of MDs in the ER, I can tell you the Chief of Staff is a person of great integrity who's opinion on many matters I greatly value, and I can tell you that profit should not be a very good motivator in a "non-profit" hospital...  otherwise I got nothin'.

But thank you for your assessment ERRN.  While rumors and insinuation are not welcome, an actual opinion from someone who is involved is always welcome in my book.  Oh, and welcome to TulsaNow.

[waterboy]

CF, surely you know there are lots of ways to spread profits around so as to remain in 'non profit" status. The disparity in wages is huge in these Catholic hospitals. Lots of fat, happy Chiefs, too few Indians. I know from my experience employed in one, that the nurses, techs, phlebotomists and other providers of basic service, are poorly paid, easily fired and generally seriously overworked. Morale is awful. They move from one hospital to another then into clinics and private practices like water. They are the ones providing most of your health care, not the docs. The latest crisis exposed in the re-used needle story recently that caused exposure to hepatitis is an example of the industry's failure to adequately train, motivate and retain quality employees. Nursing shortage? Curiously, they will fire them in a hearbeat for minor violations like talking back to the office manager. The management is typically better trained in technical areas than business areas and thus are extremely poor managers. Ask a hospital employee about their measily raises this year.

PGA is non profit too but somehow that old profit motive works its way through the fog.

[brunoflipper]

quote:Originally posted by FOTD

Cannon Fodder and Bruno Flipper care to comment?Spoonbill, what about inaccuracies on my part?
We need your input. Since you, BF deal and CF, are chummy with the muckamucks at St. Francis, tell us again how it goes there! Then tell me I am wrong again.

i won't touch it...

she's entitled to her opinion... her assessment of the situation is far from factual...

she's seems to be a little unhappy with the change and the administration at saint francis... perhaps she'd do best to move along...

i doubt this is the venue to get her concerns addressed...

[brunoflipper]

quote:Originally posted by ERRN

I read with interest the post regarding the St. Francis Emergency Room physicians.

As an emergency room nurse, I can tell you firsthand that the administrators at St. Francis Hospital have made some very poor decisions.  

They did not renew the contract of the ER docs that have been staffing their ER for 30+ years.  By the way,there are at lease 20 doctors in the emergency physicians group, not six as mentioned by the personal friend of the Chief of Staff.  Instead, they hired a new group of docs from Ohio, who by their own words call themselves "firefighters" to staff a MAJOR TRAUMA CENTER. These doctors have never staffed an emergency room with more than 15 beds.  SFH has 40+ beds.  

While I do not know all of the going's on with administration, I do know that their decision to release ECI physicians has everything to do with making money and not with patient care.  Never once did anyone from administration come down and talk with the nurses or ancillary staff to see how their decision would effect everyone, they just send down the orders from above.

It is interesting to me that these administrators never seem to understand what it takes to care for acutely sick people.  They just look at the numbers and think that we are there eating bon bons.  They do not provide the latest equipment or adequtely pay the nursing staff.  They refuse to put us on divert when we are overflowing with patients and cannot provide good patient care (because that would reflect poorly and cost SFH a lot of money if we had to turn patients away).  The administrators never come to help when we get into a crisis situation and more staff is needed.  They do a walk about in the ER and determine if we can go on divert.  Then, if they feel it's appropriate,they will give us one hour to figure it all out.  Nice.....

Instead we have 4-6 hour wait times and patients lined up in the hallway like a warzone.  Of course, they do not understand this because when they or their family members need to come into the ER, they can call ahead and we are supposed to keep a room open for them so they do not have to wait in the waiting room, with the thousands of other Tulsans.

Am I resentful?  Yes,somewhat.  The staff in the ER work amazingly well as a group to provide life and death care.  The ability of the nurses and doctors to work together as a team provides a higher level of care. Administration doesn't account for any of that. I am amazed that you can provide 30+ years of service to an organization and then it can all be gone within six months.  Without hesitation, without a goodbye, without trying.  These doctors care about SFH but didn't appear to get the dignity and respect they need.  The up aboves listened to the voices of the few, not the many.  I am disappointed.

The new doctors who have come in do not seem to care about the relationships that need to exist between nurses and doctors. They do not introduce themselves to staff, they do not ask how things are going, they do not seem interested in the long term ability to provide excellent care.

Do I care?  Yes, I hope that things will change at St. Francis ER. I know that administration will pour a large amount of money to ensure that these new doctors are successful, because after all, if they fail to provide, then adminstration will look bad.  And that, above all things, is something they despise.

wow... "While I do not know all of the going's on with administration" and that, in a nutshell, is the problem with this post...

[brunoflipper]

quote:Originally posted by cannon_fodder

I can't comment with any "insider knowledge."  I am friends with the Chief of Staff but not on a professional level.  I do not talk to him about hospital operations and even when I asked him about the rumor FOTD posted before he merely said the assessment was not accurate.  He is not a spokesmen nor really part of the administration.

One thing I do know for sure ERRN, is that your line about me is off the mark.  I never said anything about how many MDs staff the ER at St. Francis.  I am the one who is friends with the Chief of Staff and I never said that.  I don't know how many are in the group, how many should be, where they come from, or anything else.

Here is the previous thread on this matter where I never mentioned the number of ER doctors nor claim any special knowledge in these matters (I never said I "knew how it goes there" either FOTD):
http://www.tulsanow.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8124&SearchTerms=chief+staff

So all I know about the poster is that she is a nurse, is an instructor at OSU Okmulgee, and is unhappy with St. Francis.   I am left to assume that she works for St. Francis as an RN in the ER and that she worked there before the change and is not happy with its result.  I can not dispute her assessment of the situation as if my assumptions are true, her information is better than mine.

I can dispute the money scheme to a minor degree.  The administration is charged with fiscal responsibility but as a non-profit making money actually becomes a problem.  Any profit that is made has to be reinvested in the hospital or donated in some manner (usually indigent care by medical facilities).  So I can not speak to the conditions, the equipment or the management of the ER but on a certain level it doesn't bennefit the hospital to make money... I have no better explanation but St. Francis is non-profit and has no real incentive to make large profits (not tat non-profits don't do things that make no sense or they aren't cutting ER expense to bolster another unit).

Basically, I don't know.  If a nurse that works there thinks it was a negative change I can't dispute her opinion.  I could ask my friend again but he will tell me minimal information again as he is not a spokesmen (any large organization the professionals abstain from talking about internal matters).

So I can hope they hear ERRN's criticism and resolve any situation that exists, I can deny that I made any comment about the number of MDs in the ER, I can tell you the Chief of Staff is a person of great integrity who's opinion on many matters I greatly value, and I can tell you that profit should not be a very good motivator in a "non-profit" hospital...  otherwise I got nothin'.

But thank you for your assessment ERRN.  While rumors and insinuation are not welcome, an actual opinion from someone who is involved is always welcome in my book.  Oh, and welcome to TulsaNow.

how do you know she is an instructor at osu okmulgee?

oh i see, her profile shows her real name as tish bryan...

[Prairie_Shiksa]

I went to St. Francis ER in an ambulance a few months ago and the treatment was excellent.  

I had to go back a couple weeks later for a test, (walk in) and never saw a doc after 10 hours wait, so I left.

My doc insisted I go back & I told her about the wait.  She suggested I go to "St. Francis South" instead.  It was WONDERFUL.  The place was empty and clean and the staff was not stressed.

Try it if you ever need an ER again.

[cannon_fodder]

Not a critique Prairie, but was the follow up supposed to be to an ER?  I thought those were done at urgent care or regular office visits (I don't know, just what I have done in the past).

and welcome to TulsaNow!