Rep. Kern's Statements

[we vs us]

quote:Originally posted by jamesrage

1 Corinthians 5

9I have written you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people— 10not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world. 11But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat.

The problem I'm having is not eating with idolators, slanderers, and drunkards.  Especially the drunkards.  Those guys seem to be everywhere I go.

[cannon_fodder]

James, you don't want to get in a Bible quoting war with me.  I have studied the Bible more than most Christians have and can prevent my case using Biblical logic with ease.  Not to mention you failed to address the major points:

Jesus preached tolerance.  He discouraged immoral behavior but the larger picture of love and a personal relationship with God was most important.  He accepted prostitutes and other sinners who lived an immoral life - he discouraged their behavior but never chastised them or treated them negatively.  While Jesus is never quoted condemning homosexuality in anyway, the best argument one could muster is that he would treat these "sinners" the same as any other.

The point is not that Jesus would like homosexuality (that's an entirely other debate), but that he did not dictate the life choices of other people.  Doing so removes faith, believe, and devotion from the equation.  All of which are the essentials of Christianity, ones heart is more important than what you say or what you do (presumably ones heart would dictate the others if it is truely devoted to god).  Dictation of actions does nothing for the soul of a person nor to please your God.

For that matter I'm sure you distance yourself from the 600+ rituals and laws mandated by the old testament.  Wearing tassels, taking multiple wives, sacrificing goats, avoiding women on when they are "unclean," eating Kosher, not shaving your temples.  Jesus often tried to illustrate that such rituals are not mandatory for a relationship with God.  It is a large part of the reason he was put to death - ignoring religious law in favor of tolerance and love.

You quoted John in your condemnation of homosexuality.  Shall I assume you follow John, 8:7 and that you are without sin?  

And if your religion dictates; by all means expel the "wicked" among you.  But this State is not your religious community, nor is this nation.  You have no right to expel a person on the basis of your religious beliefs.
- - -

This all, of course, pretends I acknowledge the omnipotence or validity of your gods and still presents a strong case that the course of action you advocate is wrong.

[Townsend]

Using the bible as a means to help you in an argument can be harmful.

Anyone want to back these up?

Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says. If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.
-- I Corinthians 14:34-35 (NIV)

If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son ... Then shall his father and his mother ... bring him out unto the elders of his city ... And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die.
-- Deuteronomy 21:18-21 (AV)

My beloved put in his hand by the hole of the door, and my bowels were moved for him.
-- Song of Solomon 5:4 (AV)

There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses.
-- Ezekiel 23:20 (NIV)

If a man [meets] a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her ... He must marry the girl ... He can never divorce her as long as he lives.
-- Deuteronomy 22:28-29 (NIV)


I'm not wanting to start anything.  I just think it's a bad call to quote a poorly translated piece of literature.

[we vs us]

quote:Originally posted by Townsend

Using the bible as a means to help you in an argument can be harmful.

Anyone want to back these up?

Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says. If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.
-- I Corinthians 14:34-35 (NIV)

If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son ... Then shall his father and his mother ... bring him out unto the elders of his city ... And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die.
-- Deuteronomy 21:18-21 (AV)

My beloved put in his hand by the hole of the door, and my bowels were moved for him.
-- Song of Solomon 5:4 (AV)

There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses.
-- Ezekiel 23:20 (NIV)

If a man [meets] a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her ... He must marry the girl ... He can never divorce her as long as he lives.
-- Deuteronomy 22:28-29 (NIV)


I'm not wanting to start anything.  I just think it's a bad call to quote a poorly translated piece of literature.

Holy texts aren't necessarily the best guides for public policy.

Just ask our friends in Afghanistan or Saudi Arabia how that's been working out.

[joiei]

this just in from Perez Hilton The truth always comes out!!!!

As it should happen to be...

The homophobic Republican hatemonger from Oklahoma has a gay son!!!!

That's right, Sally Kern's son Jesse is a big ol' homo, PerezHilton.com has learned.

We're sure he's REAL PROUD of mommy!

And, it has also been revealed that Good Ol' Sally has lied about receiving death threats.

God is ashamed of Sally Kern. We know. She told us!

[cannon_fodder]

Why I can't substantiate that rumor and I'm sorry Jesse got dragged into this in any event... I can say that the rumor is all over the new AND several Oklahoma City message boards.  Apparently he was "the gay guy" at OBU.  

I really hate that her son's sexuality has become a topic of discussion, but I guess he has his mom to thank for that.

[mrhaskellok]

I want to interject something.  Remember, Sally is a Christian.  Christians will tend to think along the same lines and the Christian men and woman who "shaped" this nation.  SO, while I agree that her comments were over the top, I don't see it is hard to understand where the thought process is coming from and see the defense of it.

Here are what other "KKK" like people have said...

"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other."
John Adams

America's greatness has been the greatness of a free people who shared certain moral commitments. Freedom without moral commitment is aimless and promptly self-destructive.
John W. Gardner

I just want people to stop and think.  It is ok if you want to change the moral "structure" if you will of a nation, but don't do it thinking that those who read the history of our nation (Kern types) are going to stand by happily.   BE willing to fight the battle and stop complaining when the 'almost' obvious happens.  "Almost" obvious because I still think the comment was not conformative to the traditional views of many Christians in America.

Sid

[jamesrage]

quote:Originally posted by cannon_fodder

I have studied the Bible more than most Christians have and can prevent my case using Biblical logic with ease.

I seriously doubt that.Most likely your biblical  knowledge came from a fake religious site like religioustolerance.orgy or it came from a bogus Dr.Laura letter that cherry picked a few bible verses.You are probably one of those people who thinks thou shalt not kill bans capital punishment. If you actually knew anything about the bible you wouldn't have tried to imply that Jesus tolerated sin or that Jesus made a sin-all-you-want card or that it was okay to hang out with sinners as your post riddled with sarcasm.I proved each one your assertions wrong,so please go spread your lies of your vast biblical knowledge somewhere else.

[jamesrage]

quote:Originally posted by mrhaskellok



Here are what other "KKK" like people have said...

"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other."
John Adams

America's greatness has been the greatness of a free people who shared certain moral commitments. Freedom without moral commitment is aimless and promptly self-destructive.
John W. Gardner

I just want people to stop and think.  It is ok if you want to change the moral "structure" if you will of a nation, but don't do it thinking that those who read the history of our nation (Kern types) are going to stand by happily.   BE willing to fight the battle and stop complaining when the 'almost' obvious happens.  "Almost" obvious because I still think the comment was not conformative to the traditional views of many Christians in America.

Sid

Only a liberal would think such statements a reminiscent of a terrorist racist organization.

[we vs us]

Wow, jamesrage, your utter contempt for people you don't know is pretty impressive stuff.  I can tell you've been working on it for a loooong time.

[mrhaskellok]

quote:Originally posted by jamesrage

quote:Originally posted by mrhaskellok



Here are what other "KKK" like people have said...

"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other."
John Adams

America's greatness has been the greatness of a free people who shared certain moral commitments. Freedom without moral commitment is aimless and promptly self-destructive.
John W. Gardner

I just want people to stop and think.  It is ok if you want to change the moral "structure" if you will of a nation, but don't do it thinking that those who read the history of our nation (Kern types) are going to stand by happily.   BE willing to fight the battle and stop complaining when the 'almost' obvious happens.  "Almost" obvious because I still think the comment was not conformative to the traditional views of many Christians in America.

Sid

Only a liberal would think such statements a reminiscent of a terrorist racist organization.

Do you think I think that her comments were racist?  I used the KKK but notice I used quotation marks because other had used that organization to describe her positions. I stated that I understand her position and my whole argument was countering your type of blatent bashing on both sides.  Please sir, you don't know now me.  
lol...and I am not a liberal.  (if that is what you are calling me.)

Sid

[KingMutt]

In all due respect, Jamesrage's screen name really fits him.  No matter the topic, he "rages" against anyone who disagrees with him.

Like a few others on this board, who browbeat posters with sarcasm and spite, Jamesrage takes the fun out of Tulsanow.org.  This should be a place to exchange views civilly, discuss ideas, reminisce, ask a few silly questions once in a while, and generally enjoy ourselves.

Some of you take all of the fun out of it, but I'll bet your personal lives are just as spite-filled and miserable as your posts.  This lets you remain anonymous and get your digs in.  Hope it makes you feel like "big men" and makes up for the decided lack of substance in your real lives.

[joiei]

does anyone have any more info on this?

Sally Kern Scrubs Gay Son?


silentchild.jpg
Uh-oh! Could foul-mouthed Sally Kern's secret be out of the bag?

The Oklahoma lawmaker's homophobic remarks have been the talk of the town recently, especially her assertion that gay folk are infiltrating schools to indoctrinate children. And, sensing a critical national spotlight, Kern made a very suspicious change to her official government homepage.

If you compare a March 4th cache and today's version, you'll notice that Kern and/or her staff deleted a biographical sentence mentioning her two adult sons, Jesse and Nathan. Obviously our warning bells went off, so we did a little digging and found something quite queer.

Consider comment seventeen on this Tulsa World article: "How come no-one asks this "supposed" christian woman..about her own GAY son? The one she basically has dis-owned...ahh so christian."

What?! Kern and her Baptist preacher hubbie had a homo? And they disowned him? That's some Alan Keyes ****...

A little more digital detective work dug up numerous postings naming Jesse as the outcast offspring. One even recalls Jesse's time at Oklahoma Baptist University, where he was apparently "the biggest queen on campus":

   I find it hilarious that Salacious Sally is such a bigot. Her son Jesse was the biggest queen on the campus of OBU in the mid-90's. Twice he almost was expelled for making inappropriate advances in the library toilets. When he wasn't cruising the toilets he was in the glee club and a piano major...there's your sign.

Another comment, punches holes through Kern's religious extremism and suggests Jesse's homosexuality pushed Sally Kern over the edge:

   Jesse Kern, Sally's son, was raised in a strict Baptist environment. If your claims are true then you must blame her and her husband for his turning out that way. Most gays aren't out there breaking the law and engaging in public sex acts and solicitation. Jesse chose criminal behavior to act out on his desires.
   ...
   I see in this foolish woman much anger and resentment. Her beliefs are challenged within herself, because if she stands by them then she must accept her part in her son being a homosexual. She isn't strong enough to do that. Instead, she has created a paranoid delusion that there is some vast conspiracy of gays infiltrating schools and governments to turn others gay and force their lifestyles on everyone. Her subconscious has created this great gay evil so she doesn't have to blame herself and she says her son as a victim.

   Had the gays infiltrated Jesse's school and indoctrinated him then? Funny, how he attended Baptist schools. His attendence [sic] at Oklahoma Baptist University was marred by his repeated censure for cruising the school's toilets. Had he been able to live his life openly he would not have had to engage in such actions.

Woof. Those are some allegations! And potentially disastrous for "family friendly" Kern. It also makes you wonder how Kern and her ilk sleep at night - and whether they understand the concept of "hell".

[Hometown]

Wow, you go Joiei!

You know what is discouraging is that she received a standing ovation from the Republican caucus.

The Oklahoma Bureau of Investigation is giving her their tacit approval by investigating people that have emailed their complaints to her.

And does anyone believe this woman has ever really read even one history?

The problem is that she is emblematic of the right wing hate mongers that make the most noise about being Christian when they are so obviously clueless.  There's a whole lot of that around these parts.

[Kashmir]

I feel for that old Battleax Kern and all she is missing in life...Project Runway, catching the live drag show @ Majestic on Thursday nights, Halloween and Ted Allen...Anderson Cooper.  Need I say more? (All things I enjoy!)

She makes me want to puke.[xx(]

However, I can take comfort in knowing her house prolly has poor interior design and she probably eats bad food.
[]

Someone on KOTV comments said "Look at her, you can tell she is a repressed, self loathing Lesbian."  Ha!